Developing Suggestions

Developing Suggestions

This section is for presenting and reviewing suggestions which have not yet been submitted and are still being worked on.

Nothing on this page will be archived.

Further Discussion

• Discussion concerning this page takes place here.
• Discussion concerning the suggestions system in general, including policies about it, takes place here.

Please Read Before Posting

• Be sure to check The Frequently Suggested List and the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots before you post your idea. You can read about many ideas that have been suggested already, which users should be aware of before posting what could be a dupe: a duplicate of an existing suggestion. These include Machine Guns and Sniper Rifles.
• Users should be aware that page is discussion oriented. Other users are free to express their own point of view and are not required to be neutral.
• It is recommended that users spend some time familiarizing themselves with this page before posting their own suggestions.
• After new game updates, users are requested to allow time for the game and community to adjust to these changes before suggesting alterations.

How To Make a Suggestion

Adding a New Suggestion

• Copy the code in the box below.
• Click here to begin editing. This is the same as clicking the [edit] link to the right of the Suggestions header.

• Paste the copied text above the other suggestions, right under the heading.
• Substitute the text in RED CAPITALS with the details of your suggestion.

{{subst:DevelopingSuggestion
|time=~~~~
|name=SUGGESTION NAME
|type=TYPE HERE
|scope=SCOPE HERE
|description=DESCRIPTION HERE
}}

• Name - Give the suggestion a short but descriptive name.
• Type is the nature of the suggestion, such as a new class, skill change, balance change, etc. Basically: What is it? and Is it new, or a change?
• Scope is who or what the suggestion affects. Typically survivors or zombies (or both), but occasionally Malton, the game interface or something else.
• Description should be a full explanation of your suggestion. Include information like flavor text, search odds, hit percentages, etc, as appropriate. Unless you are as yet unsure of the exact details behind the suggestion, try not to leave out anything important. Check your spelling and grammar.

Cycling Suggestions

• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past two days should be given a warning notice. This can be done by adding {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section, where date is the day the suggestion will be removed.
• Suggestions with no new discussion in the past week may be removed.
• If you are adding a comment to a suggestion that has the warning template please remove the {{SDW|date}} at the top of the discussion section to show that there is still ongoing discussion.

This page is prone to breaking when the page gets too long, so sometimes suggestions still under discussion will be moved to the Overflow page, so the discussion can continue.

Please add new suggestions to the top of the list

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Suggestions

Ripoff of Boxing Gloves, stolen from Dr Frank

Timestamp: Necrofeelinya 04:26, 6 September 2009 (BST)

Type: New Weapon

Scope: Survivors

Description: This is a new item, and basically, a melee weapon. It has a 2% encumbrance. They can be found in Mall Sports Store 5%, Stadium 3%, Barracks 2% and Junkyard 1%. It has the same % chance of hitting as a punch, at least at first. Like a punch, initially it does only 1 damage. Until, of course, the modifiers kick in. It costs 1 AP to equip boxing gloves, and when equipped the player cannot use any other items. It costs 1 AP to unequip boxing gloves. When boxing gloves are in place, the normal attack button is replaced with a special boxing attack button with a numeric counter that shows the character's boxing skill. Boxing skill is measured on a scale of 1-100. All characters start at 1, and gain 1 additional point for every successful hit they land on an opponent. For every 5 skill points a character has, they gain a +1% modifier to hit with a punch attack while wearing boxing gloves, for a maximum modifier of +20%. For every 45 points they have, they gain a +1 damage modifier to punch attacks for a maximum modifier of +2 damage. Every players boxing skill reduces at a rate of 1 point every 12 hours, to a minimum of 1. Thus, to stay proficient, you have to practice. Only you can see your boxing skill, it's not shown on your profile to others, so survivors who challenge one another to in-game live boxing matches don't know who's the stronger fighter. And it's still useful for people who just want to swagger around and beat up survivors or zombies with boxing gloves instead of shooting them or hacking at them with axes. To sum up, this could make for some nice flavor, and set up competitions between survivors to have real-time boxing matches in-game. Remember to keep a referee and a fight doctor around, you'll need those FAKs!

Discussion (Ripoff of Boxing Gloves, stolen from Dr Frank)

Should have more Encumbrance, I think; of course, that's based purely on feel... Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 04:30, 6 September 2009 (BST)

Wait, I misread this; I thought it said you lost a point every hour. As it is it makes a little practice enough to trump the Fire Axe for best melee weapon. I liked it back when I misread it though; you had to seriously practice to make any long term headway... Perhaps you lose a point every hour or 90 minutes? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 04:41, 6 September 2009 (BST)

Keep in mind, you only gain a point with every successful attack. The most damage you can do is 3, which is equal to fire axe, and as far as the hit %, I haven't compared but I assume that with hand to hand and axe handling fire axe is still better... plus, you can't use FAKs or other items with gloves on, you'd have to spend the AP to take them off and put them back on again, I figured 1 point every 12 hours would be an okay rate of point loss, but I could see increasing the rate... I don't think every hour or 90 minutes would be best though... the item is already fairly inconvenient and you only get the full damage benefits when you're at 90 skill points or more, and the full accuracy benefits at 100%. To make this item work at peak efficiency, you really have to commit to it, which means you may not have the time to do other things in-game.--Necrofeelinya 05:41, 6 September 2009 (BST)

Good point; I forgot about healing and failed to notice it was only for successful hits. How about barricading though, can survivors still do that with gloves on? Also, should taking the gloves off effect your points in any way? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 05:52, 6 September 2009 (BST)

I think that any action besides attacking that the player attempts while wearing gloves should bring up a message that says "You're unable to perform that action while wearing boxing gloves. Perhaps you should take them off?" That particularly applies to 'cading and searching. I'll probably amend the suggestion to say that later, but it's late tonight and I think I'll catch some rest.--Necrofeelinya 06:15, 6 September 2009 (BST)

Oh, and as for taking the gloves off... it doesn't affect the points, they continue to diminish at the regular rate. You just can't accumulate any more without them on. Now I'm gonna go pass out. Or something.--Necrofeelinya 06:44, 6 September 2009 (BST)

Graagh! --~Dr Frank ^{(t) (DF) [P] (Sb)} 08:09, 6 September 2009 (BST)

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Agriculture and Brewing

Timestamp: Matthewbluewars /New City\ 01:59, 6 September 2009 (BST)

Type: New item, new skills, game change

Scope: Malton

Description: Plants are now growing in Malton's empty blocks (and outsides of buildings). Survivors can brew them into beneficial drinks, and zombies can eat them for about half the effect of brews. At the IP reset, 500 locations (250 of them have to be near preset "Fertile Areas"). Then each location gets a random number of plants (max 5, max 7 for wasteland and ruins). Plants can be attacked, and, if successful, Plant is added to the player's inventory (encumbrance 5%), taking one away from the description. In powered pubs, survivors can brew Plants into drinks (encumbrance 5%). Brewing uses up one plant and one beer or wine (for the bottle). Unless they have the skill Nutrition (see below), the drink resulting is completely random. The drinks possible are: Green Tea - effect: Focus. Coffee - effect: Energy. Protein - effect: Strength. Antiseptic - effect: heals 2 HP, and has a 20% chance of curing infection. The effects decribed above are: Focus: increased accuracy for all weapons. Humans get +10% to the chance of XP from studying and 2 extra XP from science-related actions. Zombies get 1 extra XP from equipment destruction. Energy: increased damage from melee weapons and unarmed attacks. Strength: +5 HP limit, heals 5 HP. Each effect is temporary and has a 10% chance of wearing off each turn. Newer effects replace older ones, rather than stacking over them. For zombies, effects are halved. Some warehouses would be replaced by Granaries. In Granaries, dropping plants adds them to the building description: There are x plants dropped here. The only item findable in Granaries is plants, at the rate of (plants in building)/100. There is a maximum of 100 plants per Granary. New Skills: Nutrition (Scientist) - can now choose the drink resulting from brewing. Meditiation (Zombie Hunter) - advanced meditation techniques double the effects of drinks. Agriculture (Civilian) - +10% accuracy against plants. Harvesting (Civilian) - an extra 25% against plants. Scent Flora (Zombie, under Scent Fear tree) - you can now choose what effect eating plants will have.

Discussion (Agriculture and Brewing)

Broken and overpowered; we don't need to increase shotgun hit percentages, or up the hit rate and damage of fire axes any more. We also don't need to double those benefits. This seems like something that could and most likely will unbalance and break the game while solving no problem and accomplishing nothing but added complexity. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:27, 6 September 2009 (BST)

It isn't supposed to "solve problems". It is supposed to "add complexity". It's supposed to add a new element to the game, though if you think its OP, you tell me how I can balance it. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 02:41, 6 September 2009 (BST)

You can't; it completely changes the way that combat hit percentages and a lot of damage occurs just for the sake of adding complexity. That's like making you find objects to put in Barricades just because it's more immersive: Don't unbalance the game as the Dos and Do Nots say. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:57, 6 September 2009 (BST)

Meh, I don't care about the effects of the items. I'll change them to whatever you want. The point is that you have a reason to go trekking through dangerous territory, to fight for warehouses and pubs, and to stop running away like a little girl. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 03:15, 6 September 2009 (BST)

River Tactics are very viable tactics; they're some of the best survivor strategies in existence (Dam tactics making up the rest if you feel that way), and they are very in-genre for a zombie apocalypse. In almost every zombie movie, the humans are either trying to run away to somewhere the zombies aren't, or they're dying as their "sooper safehouse" is breached. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:36, 6 September 2009 (BST)

"stop running away like a little girl"? lol ... listen ... i have some excellent katana polish as well as some spiffy oil for your trenchcoat ... interested? --WanYao 06:01, 6 September 2009 (BST)

You balance the game by not introducing overpowered stuff in the first place. Sure, you could add some bonuses to zombies to "balance" this, but you've brought up the overall power intensity of the game. A more extreme example of this would be people who could kill 5 full-HP fleshrot zombies in 50 AP, regularly. It may be balanced overall, but players get to be too powerful as individuals. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 03:00, 6 September 2009 (BST) edit conflicts ahoy

So I'll change the effects of drinks. Just give me some idea on how to do that. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 03:23, 6 September 2009 (BST)

If people arn't going to stay and fight for NT's, hospitals and PD's, they're not going to fight for idiotic things like a field of plants or a home brew kit. This is awful flavour for a zombie apocalypse. Green tea and protein shakes, I mean, really. And putting plants into a "grainery" for others to take out is a no-no... no trading between players -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 03:29 6 September 2009 (BST)

As per boxy this is spamoliciously inappropriate to a gritty zombie game. It's also trenchcoat-o-rific overpowered-survivor-buff-from-hell bullshit. --WanYao 05:58, 6 September 2009 (BST)

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Boxing Gloves

Timestamp: ~Dr Frank (t) (DF) [P] (Sb) 12:00, 4 September 2009 (BST)

Type: New Weapon

Scope: Survivors

Description: This is a new item, and basically, a melee weapon. It has a 2% encumbrance. They can be found in Mall Sports Store, Mansion, School, Stadium, Barracks and Junkyard. Undecided on search rates. Deals 2 damage per hit and has a 15% base chance of damage. Accuracy is affected by the Hand to Hand survivor skill.

Discussion (Boxing Gloves)

I thought it would be interesting to see boxing gloves in the game. I know that there are a lot of other melee and household weapons but I thought that this would add an interesting flavour. It also has a slightly more base hit chance than your regular fist. This does not affect the punch, character description, clothes description or anything else and is simply a new weapon in the inventory. I need some help regarding locations and search rates. Oh, and on the offhand side I took this screenshot. --~Dr Frank ^{(t) (DF) [P] (Sb)} 12:00, 4 September 2009 (BST)

Personally, I don't feel the need for these. Brass knuckles would have been more interesting. Besides, I'm not sure if boxing gloves do more damage then bare knuckles anyway. The Mad Axeman 14:32, 4 September 2009 (BST)

They don't. Boxing gloves were invented to increase the surface area, and thus cause less damage to the face than hitting with bare knuckles. Also, this dilutes search rates in PDs, which is never a good thing.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:27, 4 September 2009 (BST)

That was pretty much what I suspected. The Mad Axeman 13:39, 5 September 2009 (BST)

Dupe. And brass knuckles make more sense than boxing gloves anyway. As Yonnua said, boxing gloves are designed to do less damage.--Pesatyel 04:48, 5 September 2009 (BST)

I don't know, if I were out punching zombies I'd rather wear the gloves than not. Anyway this wuz just an idea for flavour. --~Dr Frank ^{(t) (DF) [P] (Sb)} 11:53, 5 September 2009 (BST)

How did you know that I was thinking of creating an Iron Mike Tyson character who runs around threatening to eat people's babies and only uses punches and bites? This suggestion would have been perfect for that! Just make it so that it takes 1 AP to equip or unequip boxing gloves, and when you're equipped with them you can't use any other items or attack with any other weapons. That would pretty much take this puppy out of dupe status in my opinion, and survivors could even start arranging boxing matches in-game. Perfect!--Necrofeelinya 03:44, 6 September 2009 (BST)

I think that would do it; it's not like fists are a common weapon at the moment anyway... Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:46, 6 September 2009 (BST)

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Water Mechanics Resubmission

Timestamp: Brainguard 22:01, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Type: Travel Idea

Scope: Malton

Description: The military has pushed back the quarentine border. A new section of Malton, 100 blocks wide by 10 blocks high opens up. The section would have a group of "Marinas", "Shipyards" and "Piers" on the southern side, a large river in the middle, and fields and farms to the north. In order to travel on water, players must go to a water-land block, such as a pier, marina, shipyard, or bridge. These blocks are empty blocks where players can either be on land level or water level, and can travel between them for 1 AP. On sea level, boats can travel, survivors with a civilian skill "Swimming" can swin and zombies can float for 3 AP (2 AP with Lurching Gait). On land level, zombies and survivors can travel normally or find boats. Land-water blocks can be powered and barricaded. To enter a boat, survivors go to a land-water block. You select from a list of boats to enter. The list options each follow the format: (Owner name)'s (Boat type). When on a boat, the owner controls the movement. To own a boat, you can search a land-water block (other than a bridge). If you find a boat, you have two options: "discard" and "launch". If you launch the boat, you now own a boat. Boats automatically have a built in generator, but must be fuelled to run. The owner of a boat can move for 2 AP per square. When (s)he moves, the boat moves, along with everyone on it. Each boat has a database of items on board. When you drop an item, it adds that item to the database. The chance of finding any item is 10% divided by number of item:total items on board (+10% if the boat is fuelled). Dinghies cannot be searched. Zombies cannot attack survivors on boats. However, they can attack boats by the same mechanics that they attack generators with. Once the boat is destroyed, the survivors fall into the water and can be attacked. Survivors that fall in the water have a 50% chance of taking 20 damage upon falling in. Boats can be repaired at powered Shipyards. The chance is reduced by 25% by owning the item "Life Jacket", and by another 25% by having the skill "Swimming". Boats: Dinghy - small 2 person boat Found in Piers Damage levels: undamaged, "damaged", destroyed. Cannot be searched Yacht - large 10 person boat Found in Marinas Damage levels: undamaged, "scratched", "damaged", "leaking", destroyed. Findable items: Beer, Wine, Life Jackets, Fuel Cans, all sports items. Patrol Boat - medium 5 person boat Found in Shipyards Damage levels: undamaged, "scratched", "damaged", "badly damaged", "leaking", destroyed. Findable items: Life Jackets, Radios, Pistol Clips, Pistols, Fuel Cans. Has a built-in Radio Transmitter. New Skills: Swimming (Civilian) - allows survivors to travel on water without a boat for 2 AP per move. Sailing (Military) - allows boat owners to move boats for 1 AP. Marine Biology (Scientist) - allow boat passenger to DNA Scan/Revive zombies outside of their boat. New Item: Life Jacket - lowers odds of taking damage from boat sinkings, worn like a Flak Jacket.

Discussion (Water Mechanics Resubmission)

Falling in reduces the damage taken to 15 and 10 or the chance of taking damage to 25% and then 0%? --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:04, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Hold on, I'll clarify. --Brainguard 23:10, 3 September 2009 (BST)

There's no need to improve something that doesn't exists--Orange Talk 01:35, 4 September 2009 (BST)

One word: Borehamwood. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 01:57, 4 September 2009 (BST)

	Borehamwood
	Population: 11058 Current Population 0 standing survivors 5 standing zombies

update

So, your suggestion would benefit 210 players? WHOA. THAT'S SO HELPFUL DUDE. :D--Orange Talk 02:17, 4 September 2009 (BST)

I've actually designed an extension to Malton, User:Brainguard/OuterMalton, with lots of water. And also, a LOT of suggestions involve water. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 02:23, 4 September 2009 (BST)

A lot of NON-IMPLEMENTED suggestions--Orange Talk 02:27, 4 September 2009 (BST)

I redid part of the suggestion to create a river. Read the top of my suggestion. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 02:44, 4 September 2009 (BST)

Dupe of in game, Borheamwood's is better and more simple. Let's just leave it at that. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 03:06, 4 September 2009 (BST)

Well, the only thing I can think of is that Borehamwood is seperated from Malton by the river. This would allow characters to "cross over" making Borehamwood somewhat useful. Also having "water" in the title doesn't make it a dupe.--Pesatyel 05:24, 4 September 2009 (BST)

Possibly, but I'd kill the rest. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 05:25, 4 September 2009 (BST)

I just think he was needlessly over complicating it. All he really needs is the "swimming" skill I think.--Pesatyel 07:00, 4 September 2009 (BST)

I just like the idea of mobile safehouses. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 20:35, 4 September 2009 (BST)

I agree. The problem is that something like this is a significant change (hence why I suggested Borehamwood which has water and some water mechanics already rather than making up a new place) and needs to be done slowly. Start with swimming as a link between Malton and the new location (be it, in the end, Borehamwood or some new location), then move on to "boats".--Pesatyel 02:37, 5 September 2009 (BST)

Amen, brotha. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 23:50, 5 September 2009 (BST)

I think Borehamwood's is TOO DAMN EASY. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 20:35, 4 September 2009 (BST)

In what way?--Pesatyel 02:37, 5 September 2009 (BST)

You just freaking walk on water. I understand zonbies can float, but for the love of God, the average human can't walk on water. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 23:50, 5 September 2009 (BST)

How come zombies are better "swimmers" than the living?--Pesatyel 05:24, 4 September 2009 (BST)

They aren't, they just don't die after being submerged for a few hours :P -Devorac 07:22, 4 September 2009 (BST)

Under water = no breathing. Humans need to breathe. Zombies don't. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 20:35, 4 September 2009 (BST)

Depends on the "zombies." --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 22:58, 4 September 2009 (BST)

I was talking about the game mechanics. A survivor uses 3 AP to swim but a zombie with Lurching Gait uses 2 to "float" (which I have to equate to "moving through the water". Or swimming).--Pesatyel 02:37, 5 September 2009 (BST)

Too Complicated, and it solves no problem. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:59, 4 September 2009 (BST)

What "problem(s)" are ANY suggestions supposed to solve?--Pesatyel 06:27, 5 September 2009 (BST)

I think that this suggestion would create problems apt enough to warrant suggestions.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:03, 5 September 2009 (BST)

hmm... it looks nice... and sounds nice... but one problem: why the fuck would the military open up the docks full of water, the precious life source of humans (even salt water is sometimes in water recycling) to these drunk, extremely powerful, humans and zombies covered in their own feces? Get past that factor and I "guess" I like it --Gat 18:29, 5 September 2009 (BST)

They had to retreat quickly and just dam up the water because if they didn't, zombies would get into the countryside. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 23:47, 5 September 2009 (BST)

It has a few merits, but would probably work better if there was a new city. Malton should be left as it is for now. Nemesis645 21:18, 5 September 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I think there should be a port city to make. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 23:47, 5 September 2009 (BST)

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memories of life mod

Timestamp: --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 03:22, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Type: skill buff

Scope: babah

Description: A straightforward suggestion which is most probably a dupe. I think zombies with Memories of Life should be able to open doors from the inside of a building (where the doors are closed), rather than have to go outside and re-enter. Not terribly overpowered because it only saves 1AP, but it might help those newb feral baby zeds a little.

Discussion (memories of life mod)

yap --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 03:31, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Brilliant. Peer Reviewed was all I desired. Thanks Bob. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 04:15, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Heh, turns out a winner is already you!. <srs> Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:19, 3 September 2009 (BST)

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Cash (Not for Trading)

Timestamp: Brainguard 03:21, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Type: Role Playing Item

Scope: Survivors, Malls, Hotels, Banks, Mansions, Police Depts

Description: There would be some new items: $100 Bills £100 Bills €100 Bills Bills would be found in Banks (obviously), Malls (also obvious), Hotels (people bring cash on vacation, currency exchange), Police Depts (criminals and cash) and Mansions (rich = money). The amount of cash in each currency you own would be displayed on your profile. While with other survivors, you would also have the option "Give (drop down menu)100 Bill to (drop-down menu)", giving 100 units of a currency you choose to a player of your choice in the room. Isn't This Item Trading? Nope. You know why? CASH IS USELESS. It serves no purpose other than RPing!

Discussion (Cash (Not for Trading))

Ugh! My eyes!! --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 03:26, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Why? Wouldn't RPing be helped? --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 02:50, 4 September 2009 (BST)

And like the masses, I prefer to play UD rather than RP UD. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 03:08, 4 September 2009 (BST)

blabla dilutes search rates in PDs. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 03:32, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Ok, take out the PD part. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 02:50, 4 September 2009 (BST)

Guess what? We have this in Peer Review from 4 years ago. The trading aspect is also a dupe. Money has actually been suggested a few times (but back then they deleted spam suggestions, so it is hard to say "dupe"), but I was surprised to see it in Peer Review.--Pesatyel 07:57, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Isn't mine different enough, due to the different currencies? --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 02:50, 4 September 2009 (BST)

Not really. Some idiot actually suggested BOTTLECAPS as "currency". You also forgot some essential parts of any item suggestion, like encumbrance value and search rates. Also, I don't need some asshole filling up my inventory with "money".--Pesatyel 05:21, 4 September 2009 (BST)

No encumbrance. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 20:36, 4 September 2009 (BST)

First, why no endumberance? Do you know how heavy money can get? Secondly, why did you change your screenname?--Pesatyel 04:46, 5 September 2009 (BST)

I think it's a dupe. It's pointless, anyway... Just type "**Player give Other Player 100 bucks... don't ask what for**" --WanYao 14:40, 3 September 2009 (BST)

You don't get it! RPing is better when you can actually do the action rather than saying it. --Matthewbluewars ^{/New City\} 02:50, 4 September 2009 (BST)

You're right: cash is useless; the only question is why you'd want to go through a search-rate-diluting game update instead of just saying that you gave someone cash. Since the setting is post-zombie-apocalypse, favors are worth a lot more than cash both in RP and reality, so I don't see why you can't just owe someone a favor instead... Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:48, 4 September 2009 (BST)

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Mutually Exclusive Class System

Timestamp: Harrison Hatchet 15:03, 2 September 2009 (BST)

Type: Class Redesign

Scope: Future city in UD

Description: I have some ideas about redesigning the class system for a future UD city. My rationale is that classes as currently implemented become meaningless as you advance in levels. Every high-level character has all, or almost all, skills. Instead, classes should be specialized and interdependent. One character shouldn't be able to do everything. Below are some more details. All survivors would start as civilians. Most of what we now consider must-have skills would be classified as civilian (free running, basic hand-to-hand combat, basic firearms combat, diagnosis, construction). After the civilian has acquired some prerequisite number of civilian skills, he/she can choose to become either military or scientist and have access to the chosen class's skills. All zombie skills would be off limits, though there might be a Dual Nature class. A Dual Nature class would have a limit on total number of skills and have some distribution limit (e.g., maximum of 20 skills, with no more than 13 in either survivor or zombie skills). If you change your mind, you should be able to change classes, forget all skills of the old class, and get back some (not all) of your spent experience points.

Discussion (Mutually Exclusive Class System)

Why? What problem does this solve, and what end does this serve other than breaking the game, deleting everyone's skills, and violating a crapload of the basic Suggestions Dos and Do Nots? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:38, 2 September 2009 (BST)

It's also incredibly dupish, and completely nerfs survivors. To make this even reasonably fair, zombies would only be able to bite or claw. Otherwise, it's complete spam.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:42, 2 September 2009 (BST)

I can see what you're getting at here, and other games have implemented a similar system. However, the nature of the game rather dictates the current structure and the change really wouldn't work now that it's been around so long. In conclusion, it's not actually a bad idea but it would only really work if it was implemented at the start of the game. At this stage of the game, survivors would all be up in arms over losing their skills and it would never pass voting.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 19:30, 2 September 2009 (BST)

I did say a future city, not Malton or the others. There are three cities, so there might be others in the future, right? So no one would lose skills, it would be this way at the start, etc. etc. Zombies could have classes too, though I don't have any concrete ideas. --Harrison Hatchet 22:06, 2 September 2009 (BST)

Both of the other cities were promotional. I'd wager that if they make a movie of Pride and prejudice... and zombies, then that will be made in to a city. Other than that, I don't see a need for more cities. Furthermore, it's just not that good an idea overall.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:13, 2 September 2009 (BST)

Yes to implementing this in another city. In Malton? No.--Maps 13:43, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Agreed... on a side note, if you want to play like that, go play DND or scroll wars --Gat 04:07, 5 September 2009 (BST)

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"Stand Up" Revisited

Timestamp: Foxtrot 12:43, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Type: Game mechanic change.

Scope: Urban Dead players.

Description: Please don't hit me if this is a bad idea. But I think it would be a decent and balanced solution to a very frustrating game mechanic. At the moment, standing up costs quite a bit of AP. Many players use their dead time to regenerate AP and prepare for a new day. However, it is very frustrating when I have waited a day for my 50 AP and I end up with only 40 AP or so. I understand that Ankle Grab nerfs this mechanic, however I feel it would be better to have 1 (Ankle Grab)/6 (Ankle Grab + Headshot) /10 (Default) /15 (Headshot) AP subtracted from a player when they are killed, as opposed to when they stand up. It would still cost 1 AP to stand up, but no more than that.

Discussion ("Stand Up" Revisited)

That isn't terrible. Hmm. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:11, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Hmmm... --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 14:32, 1 September 2009 (BST)

seems familiar, though... --WanYao 15:02, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Yes, seems dupish. BTW, it nerfs ?rise tactics -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 15:37 1 September 2009 (BST)

how so nerf? --xoxo 02:09, 2 September 2009 (BST)

Think about it. Under this, you can't ?rise if you have only a few AP remaining before getting killed. And it penalises zombies who happen to get caught in a real-time fight, ?rise or no ?rise. Seems hamrless -- even beneficial -- but I fear it might have negative repercussions on zombies. --WanYao 05:13, 2 September 2009 (BST)

It also penalises survivors in a real-time fight, in the exact same way. Except without the ?rise nerf.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:14, 2 September 2009 (BST)

mmmm only relevant ifyou've got under 6ap. So doesn't affect survivors because they stand up as zombies if they just died. And if a zombies undr 6ap i see the issue but i think its fairly minor...--xoxo 04:19, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Getting a bit hazy here, but headshot currently punishes newbs much more than experienced zombies. This would seem to even that out a bit, whilst still slowing down zombies, newbs would get more ap's to use between each headshot. Hmm. Rise things an issue, but saying that I never really knew if Kevan thought it was a viable tactic or not. Hmm.--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:38, 1 September 2009 (BST)

I remember at least one conversation on this and I am pretty sure it got shot down by both sides. If I remeber right a lot of survivors didn't like the idea of zombies being able to wait a few hours and standing up for "no penalty" while the hardcore zombie mob screamed "don't you nerf mah ?rise" Me, I would be all for it. --Honestmistake 16:54, 1 September 2009 (BST)

I don't really see a problem with it at the moment, although one may be revealed later; the same AP cost still applies. Not that I'm against nerfing ?risers, but how exactly does this do so? I don't see anything that stops them from continuing to spam get-up commands until they IP. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:31, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Once you run out of AP, you can no longer stand. This shifts the AP cost to beforehand.

For example: Zombie A is in a seige. He has 5AP left. He is knocked to zero hp, falls down. Currently, using ?rise, he'll isntantly stand up, going down to -15AP (assuming he's headshot without Ankle Grab). Even though his AP is now below 0, he's still standing, and needs to be killed again. With this addition, he's killed, and drops to the floor. He loses the AP at this point, reducing him to -10. He can now perform no actions until he reaches 1AP. This includes standing with ?rise. So, he cannot stand up, and only needs to die once.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:37, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Sounds like an improvement to me. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:39, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Alright, so what do you think, guys? Worth submitting to actual suggestions? - Foxtrot 22:46, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Probably, but prepare for it to be spammed by the papas. I doubt they'll be fond of it.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:51, 1 September 2009 (BST)

-- I might leave it up for another day just to be sure no one has anything to say, but I'd vote for it as is. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 23:02, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Search for a dupe first, or get someone to search for you. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 02:10, 2 September 2009 (BST)

With the first read, I wasn't sure what exactly was being suggested. I didn't see the difference paying at death was to paying at standup. Yonnua's example helps, so you might consider adding it when it goes to vote. So we have to look at the 2 affected events. One is the ?rise. I have no problem with that being adversally affected. The other is standig up without any AP (to spend performing actions after standing up). THAT tactics forces survivors to deal with "fresh" zombies before they can barricade, for example. Is losing that zombie tactic worth it?--Pesatyel 02:00, 2 September 2009 (BST) Oh, and, by the way, I don't have a problem with it. I like the suggestion.--Pesatyel 02:01, 2 September 2009 (BST)

I suspect very few zombies actually use ?rise. How many of them linger on the wiki is more likely to be a problem when this comes to voting. --Honestmistake 08:07, 2 September 2009 (BST)

I don't use the ?rise command itself, but I do enjoy the ability to use the stand up button when I find myself inside after someone kills me on their last AP, or is just too silly to dump me immediately (see the bottom of my user page).
Basically, this suggestion is removing my ability to choose when I loose the AP to headshot. As it stands now, I can choose to stand immediately and take the penalty, or stay down to avoid further headshots. I often stand up early when already dumped, so that I get loose the headshot penalty early, and can work up to near 50AP. It's only in green suburbs that further headshots outside are likely -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:45 2 September 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I can see advantages both ways myself. On balance I think I would prefer this method 9 times in 10 but its a close call. I think this would probably be best tested in a new city or introduced as a result of a limited run of "hollow point" ammo or some such. --Honestmistake 13:00, 2 September 2009 (BST)

How about a switch?--Pesatyel 08:06, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Set it to take AP on stand up then, when you are down re-set it to take on kill and get up for free :) --Honestmistake 08:13, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Why would this nerf ?rise? Surely they would still pay the AP that they would to stand up anyway? --Rahrah^{Come join the #party!}18:51, 2 September 2009 (BST)

To ?rise you need to be on positive AP. As it currently stands the AP penalty for standing is paid when you stand... this would make the penalty for headshots apply immediately making it very likely that the zombie will be taken to negative AP and thus unable to stand untill long after the building has fallen to others or (more likely) he has been chucked into the street. --Honestmistake 20:28, 2 September 2009 (BST)

Actually this mechanic applies to any kill but should really only be applied to headshots or it will end up doing favours for the Mhr cows. --Honestmistake 20:31, 2 September 2009 (BST)

Does this count for revives also? --Rahrah^{Come join the #party!}20:36, 2 September 2009 (BST)

Yep. - Foxtrot 22:18, 2 September 2009 (BST)

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Survivor Rescue

Timestamp: Goudy 01:45, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Type: New Military Skill

Scope: Survivors

Description: Sleeping outside due to no AP is something no survivor wants to do. With this skill survivors are able to carry other survivors that are outside of course with a penalty of needing about 2 or 3 AP to move around while carrying them. If the survivor is logged in then he would reject the option of being saved. This could help newbies that find themselves outside with no AP. Of course the person saving would gain some XP

Discussion (Survivor Rescue)

This is one hell of a dupe. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 02:11, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Fireman's carry made it into peer reviewed as I recall, so first DON'T FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN DAMNIT!. And second No leading people around, really. What's to stop a group of pkers from ripping people out of safe houses at 5 AP a person? (1 to pick up + 3 Move + 1 to put down) I'm pretty sure that the thought of throwing living people out of buildings for 5 AP is making every zerger within a mile salivate. Getting XP for it makes zero sense example. Begin example... *Huff, puff, drag* *gains enough XP for a level* Hey! Now that I've carried joe bob in circles for six hours on my back I can do surgery! Really, that makes no sense. -Devorac 02:26, 1 September 2009 (BST)

well maybe for bodybuilding --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 02:27, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Devorac said:

What's to stop a group of pkers from ripping people out of safe houses at 5 AP a person?

It would be quite simple to only allow survivors to drag in, in the same way that zombies can only drag out -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:34 1 September 2009 (BST)

Please read the documentation before operating the machine, i.e. freq suggested and dos and don'ts--WanYao 02:55, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Well ok i see why it is a bad idea now; I've seen it in some movies in which Character faints and when he/she wakes up she is inside a building or somewhere save and thought it'd be cool to see here. Of course i know this game is no movie. Goudy 03:16, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Combat revived zombies often "sleep outside" so that they wake up un-dead, and feed the horde at the same time. It would be annoying to be carried inside in these situations. Such a suggestion at the very least would require the "dragee" to be able to opt out of being dragged inside -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:34 1 September 2009 (BST)

I hate to use this term, but it's true: this is way too abuseable. Maybe if it was like Boxy suggested, a skill that allows survivors to drag other survivors into a building. Foxtrot 12:36, 1 September 2009 (BST)

If it only allows you to drag someone into a building then it is a complete dupe of Firemans carry, which did make it to peer reviewed.-Devorac 17:42, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Change this so it allows survivors the option to "RESCUE" another survivor who they have seen dragged out but only while the cades are down and if that survivor is on their contact list. EXAMPLE: You log on to see that survivor "Dead Meat" was dragged out 17 minutes ago and the cades are still down. You add him to your contact list and now have the option to "Rescue" him for 1AP. IF (big if) he is still alive and the cades remain down you drag him in; however the chance of doing so should be modified in exactly double the chance of the zombies blocking cading attempts. Usefull but very limited... could also use further input cos I am half pissed ( HAPPY BIRTHDAY ME :D ) and have probably missed loads...--Honestmistake 20:43, 2 September 2009 (BST)

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Catacombs in Cemeteries

Timestamp: Brain Flakes 20:53, 31 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Building change

Scope: Cemeteries

Description: Since you can enter in exit buildings, you should be able to enter and exit Cemeteries. The outdoor description should remain the same, but the indoor description should read, You are underneath ____ Cemetery in the catacombs. Since catacombs are underground, you cannot find items in them or Free Run from them. Catacombs have no doors.Catacombs could be the safe point for Zombies they could have a breather while they are looking to be revived if they were players or were infected also dead bodies could be found in catacombs dead bodies= more zombies hense a more difficult level for the survivors. The zombies could be spawned from catacombs instead of just on the street to make the game more realistic. Just a suggestion it's my first obviously.

Discussion (Catacombs in Cemeteries)

Need more info here. What do catacombs do? Why would anyone use them? etc.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 21:30, 31 August 2009 (BST)

Pointless extra hiding place for survivors.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:33, 31 August 2009 (BST)

I'm not sure what the author was intending...he appears to want some new flavor text. --Brainguard 21:48, 31 August 2009 (BST)

What?"also dead bodies could be found in catacombs dead bodies= more zombies hense a more difficult level for the survivors": You know, zombies are players too, right?--Orange Talk 00:02, 1 September 2009 (BST)

I think this guy was a newbie, but you could interpret that to mean that new zombies spawn in the catacombs. --Brainguard 01:38, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Sometimes think it would be nice to have a few hundred rambling NPC zombies wandering malton with no directive, But most of those times I've been sniffing glue. -Devorac 02:46, 1 September 2009 (BST)

This is Malton, not Paris... Doesn't fit the "story", really, imo --WanYao 02:56, 1 September 2009 (BST)

If you suggested crypts with search rates for shovels in them, (and shovels as a new pointless flavor melee weapon)... In any case, spending time around here before posting's probably a good idea. Just so you can get the ins and outs of the whole game/suggestions thing. RinKou 07:11, 1 September 2009 (BST)

I like the concept for some reason, but I'm not clear on the details. Can they be barricaded? Are they dark? Can they be lit? are these in every cemetery or just in some? What can you find in them? Personally, I think they it should be so you cannot barricade them, so it may provide some basic protection for new survivors and zombies in green suburbs. -- Uberursa^{this bear wants honey} 15:35, 4 September 2009 (BST)

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Stabilization

Timestamp: --Johnny Yossarian 02:29, 29 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Survivor skill

Scope: People over level ten w/ 'doctor' tree

Description: Using whatever is handy, you can now stabilize your infections for 5 AP, ending damage after 25-30 turns. Basically, this would allow infections only half of their normal lifespan, depending on whether or not you have Bodybuilding. You stabilize an infection so that, while it still does normal damage (1 hp per turn) after 25-30 turns it will end completely instead of hounding you till death. So no: If you're already low on HP this won't help you very much, but if a zombie infects you and doesn't hurt you any further, this is an quick fix, but at a cost: First of all, it costs 5 AP to use: Definitely not as easy to use as a FAK, and plus you're still damaged for 25-30 turns. Second ,(and third), you need the full doctor tree of First Aid, Surgery, and Diagnosis: And, you have to be at least level 10. I was considering putting this under Zombie Hunter skills, but it seemed to fit better here. You also CANNOT use this skill on others, only yourself. Flavor: (after stabilizing) You halt the spread of your infection, but it still hurts badly. After 12-15 turns: Your infection is starting to ache a little less now. After 25-30 turns: Your infection has been completely stabilized. How does it sound? Worth a real suggestion?

Discussion (Stabilization)

No. Because for half, even a third of the AP you spend before the infection cures, you could find the nearest Hospital, search, and heal yourself. If you added a 10 hour cap for the infection to cure as well as the 30ap, it could work, but personally I think 25-30ap is way too much. That's 30HP before it even fixes itself. Most people get revived with 30HP and an infection, what then? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 02:43, 29 August 2009 (BST)

No. You can use 4 AP searching for a FAK and 1 AP to use it. You gain 5 HP and you cure your infection, 15 HP if you are in a powered hospital. Your suggestion is WAY underpowered. No one would use 5 AP just for getting their infection "Stabilized", and losing 30HP. Searching for a FAK

• 10 turns for searching -10AP -10HP
• 1 turn to use it -1AP +10HP
• Something else -39AP

60HP

Using your skill

• 1 turn to use -5AP
• Something else -45AP -30HP

30HP --Orange Talk 02:46, 29 August 2009 (BST)

Actually, the "normal lifespan" of infection is UNTIL CURED. So if you get infected and then die (via the infection or not) then get revived, your STILL infected. In fact, your infected while as a zombie, you just don't take damage. Your also forgetting that most players will heal each other for the XP. You don't get XP for curing an infection, but if your infected that probably means your down 4 HP so someone WOULD get the 5 XP for healing you (and curing your infection at the same time).--Pesatyel 04:43, 29 August 2009 (BST)

Sorry, but it's a no from me. I think this is a pretty useless idea - if you are infected, you are going to have taken a fair bit of damage anyway (from the zombie that infected you). Even with this, 30 HP is most probably still going to be enough damage to kill you, and even if not, doesn't this go against the point of an infection, a typical zombie one especially? It just wears off over time? Yeah, it's a no from me, but thanks for taking the time to suggest. - Foxtrot 18:57, 30 August 2009 (BST)

Infection is so feeble as it stands. Stop trying to nerf something that that is cured with a few AP's worth of searching and one to apply the FAK. --WanYao 21:16, 30 August 2009 (BST)

Im most likely to be infected after Ive just been revived. At this point my health is at 30hp anyway. As such stablilisation will do nothing to save me. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:51, 31 August 2009 (BST)

Mm. As noted, it's a lot more efficient to use a FAK. For this to be a viable tactic, infection'd have to be only surgery-removable or something. Which is a suggestion that'll get shot down pretty quickly anyway, so. Thanks for putting some thought into it, though. RinKou 07:14, 1 September 2009 (BST)

---

Hunger strikes

Timestamp: Kamikazie-Bunny 15:22, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Item & Effect

Scope: All Players

Description: Oh for the woe of a box of shreddies! All players For every 100AP a player spends they gain a level of hunger, each level of hunger removes 5HP from their maximum HP. There are 4 levels of hunger: 1 - Slightly hungry (Max HP = 45/55) 2 - Hungry (Max HP = 40/50) 3 - Very Hungry (Max HP = 35/45) 4 - Starving (Max HP = 30/40) Hunger level appears beneath your name/HP/XP/AP in the form "You are {Hunger level}." only if you have a hunger level. Your hunger level is reduced back to 0 if you are killed/die/revived in either zombie or survivor form, the exception being if you are killed as a zombie by a zombie. Survivors Survivors can reduce their hunger level to 0 by eating 'Canned Food'. 'Canned Food' (*enc 2%) can be found in the following buildings: Malls - Malls will also have a new area to search called 'food court' if the survivor has the shopping skill. Mansions - Kitchens Stadiums - Snack Stalls Fort storehouses Cinema - Snack stalls Hotels - Restaurant Pubs - Pub Lunch Schools - Canteens Zombies Zombies can reduce their hunger by 1 level by biting a survivor. If the zombie has digestion their hunger level is reduced to 0.

Discussion (Hunger strikes)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: 6 September 2009 at 23:06 (BST)

No.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:25, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Care to elaborate? Also just realised zombies can avoid hunger by killing each other, will try correct this. --Kamikazie-Bunny 15:26, 28 August 2009 (BST)

No, I think what I said covers this adequately.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 17:08, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Yeah, make Malton even more of a living hell for new zombies. That'll totally fly. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 15:53, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Actually, its easier for zombies to ease hunger than survivors. --Brainguard 16:03, 28 August 2009 (BST)

While I agree in part about how this will make it harder for new zombies the main argument for new zombies having difficulties is they die on a daily basis and have to stand up (which negates this) and the effort taken to get through barricades. This would only affect a new (or any) zombie after they have been active for 100 AP (two days) without dying by survivor hands which is (IME) quite rare. --Kamikazie-Bunny 16:07, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Uh-huh. It's really easy with our beloved RNG for new zombies to A) even get to targets in the first place and then B) make them use their crappy 10%/20% bite attack to relieve hunger. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 16:25, 28 August 2009 (BST)

I know the RNG can be a bitch but bites are actually best for gaining XP and causing damage if the Zombie only has 1 or 2 zombie combat skills... --Kamikazie-Bunny 16:38, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Better than my old idea. Though there should also be a Thirst rating that affects maximum AP (zombies would not be affected) Here's my idea for thirst-related items:

There would be a new Mall store called a "Food Court".

• Water Heater - Factories, Power Stations, Mall Hardware Stores, and Fort Storehouses. Can be installed in buildings, only works in powered buildings. In a watered building, survivors have the options to "Drink Water" (cures Thrist), "Fill Canteen" (fills 1 of the user's Canteens) and "Wash Clothes" (removes blood and fuel form clothes). Can be attacked, and has these damage levels: 'dented', 'battered', 'damaged', 'leaking', and destroyed.
• Canteen - Fire Departments, Warehouses, Mall Sports Stores, Fort Storehouses. Appears as either "Canteen (Full)" or "Canteen (Empty)". If you use a full Canteen, it cures thirst but empties the Canteen (can be filled fo 1AP in powered buildings with Water Heater).
• Fast Food - Cinema, Bar (Pub), Mall Food Court, Hotel, Fort Barracks. Cures Hunger, but, due to the diuretic nature of soda and grease of fast food, has a 50% chance of causing Thirst.

--Brainguard 16:59, 28 August 2009 (BST)

It's a good idea, but again, not for Urban Dead. A more realistic zombie sim, probably, but as far as this game is concerned, adding this would completely change the game. RinKou 16:07, 28 August 2009 (BST)

I know it would be a big change however I'm not sure any of us know what kind of game Kevin wants urbandead to develop into. If the 'realism' isn't going to be advanced then I agree this shouldn't be added. However I hope that if this gets suggested you vote keep if you still believe this is a good idea so that Kevin is more likely to notice it if this is the direction he wants the game to head. --Kamikazie-Bunny 16:16, 28 August 2009 (BST)

It's not actually a bad suggestion, as far as hunger suggestions go, but it simply isn't suited to Urbandead. If I wanted to deal with this sort of thing then I would go and play The Sims.--The General ^{T Sys U! P! F!} 17:12, 28 August 2009 (BST)

lol nice. Yeh an while we're at it we can get jobs and worry about our hygiene and go to the bathroom, yadda yadda. And the sims have zombies, too. The perfect criticism HA!--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 18:29, 28 August 2009 (BST)

The Sims - Zombie Apocalypse... Now THAT I would like, give the sims guns and the ability to barricade, throw in the compulsory zombies and tell me that's not a game you'd play. --Kamikazie-Bunny 18:48, 28 August 2009 (BST)

I'm going to stay neutral on this because I'm in a good mood... This idea has been suggested many times in different ways, I have no qualms with food and such but it, in all suggestions, makes certain areas death zones and others zombie-free... Why don't we just put in some money for people to spend at Mczeds? XD --Gat 19:31, 28 August 2009 (BST)

No. Adding a hunger meter hasn't worked for any game, ever, (The Sims and its various ripoffs being exempt) and this is no exception. Too many new items would be implemented for something that will not be fun, innovative, or more than anything but an annoyance. The realism argument makes no sense either: If this were a realistic game, every police department would have long since ran out of guns and ammo, every FAK would have been consumed, and zombies wouldn't exist in the first place! --Johnny Yossarian 01:24, 29 August 2009 (BST)

There is one thing to consider that hasn't been brought up. Zombies with Digestion can feed on corpses.--Pesatyel 04:33, 29 August 2009 (BST)

Yes, but only if the zombie hunger aspect goes away.--Maps 07:50, 29 August 2009 (BST)

I'm sorry, but this is a game. This really isn't fun, I don't want to crippled by starvation. - Foxtrot 19:14, 30 August 2009 (BST)

Ugh. --WanYao 21:17, 30 August 2009 (BST)

I like the idea, but most other people don't. How about making it flavour, like clothing? That would allow people who don't want to spend time with it to ignore it, but allowing serious roleplayers to have to worry about being hungry. User:Armpit_Odor/sig 23:06, 30 August 2009 (BST)

---

Beta-Ville! (Thats not the sanctioned title, just something I'm kicking around the office in my head)

Timestamp: Devorac 06:22, 27 August 2009 (BST)

Type: New Testing City (NTC)

Scope: All Enormous Suggestions

Description: How many times have you seen a suggestion that has amazing potential, that is amazing potential to either be amazingly cool, or to break the system in a truly amazing fashion, but the catch is you have no idea until the suggestion is implemented what will happen! Now most of the time you can make an informed hypothesis about the probable effect of a particular change, and on little things you will be correct almost all of the time. For instance The "Just a Knife" suggestion, it only changed the name of a thing, this means that the effect will be near nil. Now let's say we are to consider the Augmented fear that's under discussion now, that one can pan out in a great number of ways some good, some bad, some that really don't make much difference and only addd complication. Now instead of being forced to either ditch it completely or implement it, why not create a city where large scale suggestion could be tested without breaking any of the other burbs? In this new testing city (Reffered to as NTC from here on) Kevan -or a particularly motivated team sanctioned by kevan- could implement new suggestions in full scale tests without hurting malton. This allows for suggestions to be refined further than they could be before by putting them under live-fire conditions, the residents of the NTC should probably mostly be suggesters themselves (if you know how to make something then you'll probably be better at ripping it to shreds as well) to help stress testing and so that they can provide experienced, intelligent *Eyes several people* feedback. I know every experienced Suggester here has/had something they would love to get testing for, but if we decided to test everything then the coding alone would be more demanding than mass genocide. So there would have to be a set of fairly rigorous conditions first, it would have to be of sufficient scope that beta-testing in the NTC would be worthwhile, and it would have to be passed by a sufficient majority of people willing to test it -willing to test, way different from voting keep. I would vote kill on most of the SMG suggestions i've seen, but there are a few i'd like to test out the intricacies of- so that if it is implemented there will be people to use it and provide sufficient feedback. Alright, your thoughts, wants, etc

Discussion (Beta-Ville! (Thats not the sanctioned title, just something I'm kicking around the office in my head))

Sounds good to me! Of course I wouldn't have to do any of the coding for it or pay for the servers but hell yes I'll show up and test stuff.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 07:54, 27 August 2009 (BST)

I like it, but it's a little idealistic, this could potentially give Kevan hours and hours of work with little payoff... In the end, Kevan knows what he will want to implement, and that's all that matters. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 08:06, 27 August 2009 (BST)

It would be a team sanctioned by Kevan. That way, they could show him what worked and what didn't. --Brainguard 15:06, 27 August 2009 (BST)

Finally the idiot trenchie can see that his suggestions are retarded, the whiny zombie can see how stupid it is to exterminate survivors, and the suggestion page aristocrats can be unthroned. --Brainguard 15:05, 27 August 2009 (BST)

It'd probably suffer from the same problems as Boringwood and Moronville - lack of participants. Sure, we might get a few hundred, but that's hardly representative of the ~25,000 in Malton. Also, I'd bet that certain players would stop using this NTC if something undesirable (to them) were to be implemented there. Well, if a ZL suggestion were implemented, it'd be a ghost town in no time. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 15:29, 27 August 2009 (BST)

There's plenty of precedent for changing the rules mid-game in Monroeville, so this is effectively a dupe of in-game. All that's required is for Kevan to reopen the city and start tweaking the rules to try various options. It would, of course, be slow going, as you'd want to test each change individually and give each of them a while to show their effect before implementing another, but it'd be worth it, I think.--Necrofeelinya 15:51, 27 August 2009 (BST)

You could make it only the size of one or two 'burbs so that it wouldn't be hard to code. It would have a Fort, a Mall, some typical buildings and TRPs, and an "Army testing ground" (empty blocks where new weapons could be found and tested). --Brainguard 00:10, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Good idea, that both makes it so you don't have to code as much, plus you don't have to have as many people to run effective tests. If malton is 10 by 10 then how about 3 by 3, or 4 by 4?-Devorac 00:48, 28 August 2009 (BST)

I'm thinking it wouldn't just be the coders playing - anyone could join, too. The TRPs and Mall would be to test the effect on full-scale seiges. --Brainguard 03:12, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Remember:Too much better than climaxville!!..Betaville is the Fictional City of another game...try to change ir later...And sound ok for ...Is only a city for test of people can enter?---(x)Alvaromesa^{Talk | Bacardi |MPD | Malton Public Radio} 04:14, 28 August 2009 (BST)

People can enter. And here's my idea for the "Army Testing Complex", which would be used to test prototype items:

Testing Ground	Testing Ground	Testing Ground	Testing Ground	'Testing Ground
Testing Ground	Testing Ground	Testing Ground	Testing Ground	'Testing Ground
Shooting Range	Shooting Range	Shooting Range	Shooting Range	Shooting Range
Silo	Guard Tower	Road	Hangar	Secret Research Facility

• Testing Ground - empty blocks
• Shooting Range - tall buildings for testing sniper-related suggestions
• Silo - where prototype weapons could be found
• Guard Tower - PD, just for flavor
• Hangar - where new vehicles could be found
• Secret Reaseach Facility - where new medical and NT items culd be found

New items would first only be available in the Testing Complex. Once proven to be bug-free, they would be tested in the rest of Beta-Ville for balance. --Brainguard 16:19, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Good idea in theory but I don't see it as practical. --Kamikazie-Bunny 15:37, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Okay the idea of special buildings for the items, I don't like at all. The items should be found 'as they would be naturally found if implemented in malton.' That gives you a bit more accurate idea of how this will work, the point is not for this to be flooded with trenchies who want to test automatic shotguns, but for suggestions to beta tested on a small scale world that replicates malton. If the NTC is going to be 4-by-4 then there should be two forts and two malls (bit unbalanced, but we would need at least one that survivors can access at all times for testing) so if your SMG is found in an armory you go grab it from an armory not from a silo. If your Black powder rifle is found in a museum THEN IT IS FOUND IN A MUSEUM, and not in strange facilities, Etc. Zombies who beta should have the opportunity to start with one of the new zombie skills, survivors should have the opportunity to start with a new item. All big changes (hunger/fear/motorcycles/mutant space goats) would be implemented on one particular quadrant. This prevents weird feedbacks between different ideas, allowing you to test multiple ideas at the same time, just in different areas allowing you to preserve the purity of your tests. -Devorac 20:37, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Ok, get rid of the special buildings for items. The tesing complex would just be a TRP. There would be no fort below it. The resources of the buildings in it:

• Shooting Range - ammo and flak jackets.
• Silo - same items as Fort Storehouse.
• Guard Tower - same items as Fort Barracks.
• Hanger - same items as Fort Vehicle Depot.
• Secret Research Facility - same items as NecroTech.

--Brainguard 02:33, 30 August 2009 (BST)

Betaville sounds fun.--Maps 20:41, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Here's an idea for the news update for Betaville: The military has set up a new live-fire training and testing facility and is looking for soldiers, citizens, and scientists to staff it (Signup link for survivors). NecroTech has been collecting specimens to fill the facility (Signup link for zombies). There be two seperate signup pages, one for survivors and one for humans. --Brainguard 02:33, 30 August 2009 (BST)

Meh, sorry, no - it's not something I see being public. Gives Urban Dead too much of an open-source feel. Perhaps if it was only accessable by members invited specifically by Kevan, but otherwise, no, sorry. - Foxtrot 19:23, 30 August 2009 (BST)

As long as the amounts of survivors and zombies are limited to keep people from filling it with thousands upon thousands of characters. User:Armpit_Odor/sig 23:14, 30 August 2009 (BST)

brainguard, NO. Down, Stay would you kindly?. There would not be a public opening, the public might not want to play in a burb with ever changing rules and items, where you can't be sure that anything will be at all the same as the second before. The opening would be on a wiki page, open to all willing beta testers who know full well what they are getting themselves into. And there would be a cap on the number of people able to join total. -Devorac 05:25, 31 August 2009 (BST)

Alright then, man. This is a good idea. If Kevan doesn't take this up, I could always have a look at programming a city for us (I can't make any promises though). - Foxtrot 12:16, 31 August 2009 (BST)

-both eyebrows raise- I'm impressed, if you could do that then most of us suggesters would be in your debt. -Devorac 02:51, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I could definetely program one. Only problem is finding an online web server with a functional MySql database. I won't lie, I don't know much about web servers. - Foxtrot 22:49, 2 September 2009 (BST)

Not that you could get an accurate beta-ville without Kevan's precise code for the game. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 23:15, 2 September 2009 (BST)

We can always ask him. -Devorac 01:12, 3 September 2009 (BST)

We know how the mechanics work. As long as they function the same, it doesn't really matter how they are programmed. - Foxtrot 03:05, 4 September 2009 (BST)

---

Climaxville

Timestamp: BlueSpurt 00:43, 27 August 2009 (BST)

Type: New city.

Scope: Cool people.

Description: So we all know that Malton sucks balls. It's boring and everything is destroyed. Therefore, I say we open a new city - Climaxville. The city would be administrated by DanceDanceRevolution, Boxy and Devorac and that Kevan guy or whatever he's called would pay for the servers and shit. This way, when a good suggestion comes along, the guys can like, put it in their city right away and make the city awesome and whatso. The city would hold home to many cool and unique places including: the Wikipedia Building, Burger King and Bill Cosby's House. So, what do you think? Moved this to Developing Suggestions. I feel it must ripen before advancing any further in it's path to glory.*

Discussion (Climaxville)

Your basis is bad, and you should feel bad. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 00:53, 27 August 2009 (BST)

While I appreciate being made administrator of a new city, I don't think that you should give that to someone who joined the wikipedia group less than a month ago. Also I would like to say, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING??!

• Creation of a new area as a testing grounds for new ideas= awesome idea one that I will have to champion of your just going to be sarcastic.

• You being bitter because the majority of your ideas have died in flames= understandable.

• You doing something stupid to get back at people= Not the best maneuver, it not only makes you look like a dick but it also makes people equate "new testing city" with that sarcastic idea that a bitter suggester made.

Think hard, roll with the punches, and use developing suggestions with either the purpose of providing pleasure or to add constructive input. -Devorac 01:29, 27 August 2009 (BST)

RE: I'm sorry? I'm not just going to be sarcastic, I don't understand what's up with everybody. It's not an attack at anyone...

Meh, fuck off you vandalizing troll; no one gives a shit about the fact that you're getting butthurt because your suggestion sucked. Try either learning to take criticism or making suggestions that don't suck in the future. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:36, 27 August 2009 (BST)

RE: I really don't care about suggestions I make. I can take criticism, what has that got to do with anything? Will someone fucking explain what I've done wrong? This was supposed to be a humorous suggestion...

Yeah, it was "humorous" until you started pissing all over the suggestions system with it, breaking anti-spam rules, and trying to falsify evidence to cover it up. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:29, 28 August 2009 (BST)

What did you do wrong? This area is not FOR humorous suggestions. Also, if YOU don't "care about your suggestions", why should we? And if we don't why are you wasting everyone's time (not to mention the limited space on this page) with stuff no one will care about?--Pesatyel 05:59, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Wow. I'm trying to decide whether or not this is the worst "new city" suggestions I've ever read.--Pesatyel 04:47, 27 August 2009 (BST)

I thought that this was a humorous suggestion...-- Uberursa^{this bear wants honey} 06:04, 27 August 2009 (BST)

Please not let the children made more suggestion...next time we are going to fight zombie Pokemons--(x)Alvaromesa^{Talk | Bacardi |MPD | Malton Public Radio} 04:19, 28 August 2009 (BST)

You lost me at "the guys can like,". --Kamikazie-Bunny 15:39, 28 August 2009 (BST)

This would be the ONLY TIME IN MY FUCKING LIFE when I would vote SPAM. --Brainguard 01:45, 1 September 2009 (BST)

Meh, if it came up I'd still just vote kill, gotta stick to your guns. (not to mention your axes, knives, flares, Etc. -Devorac 02:41, 1 September 2009 (BST)

---

Head Desk

Timestamp: --Papa Johnny 15:28, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Adding important realism to the game

Scope: Survivors.

Description: Survivors now get a button labeled "Head Desk." This button only appears indoors. Upon clicking it, the action will cause 1 damage to the player, display "You deliberately hit your head onto a desk for 1 damage," and other players will see "X hit his head onto a desk." This would be an important addition to the game and clearly must have been left out by mistake. Also, you cannot die by damage caused by using this. This action would cost 1 ap and would not be affected by infection.

Discussion (Head Desk)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: 5 September 2009 at 19:33 (BST)

Game balancing suggestion ♥ Moonie ^{Talk Testimonials} 15:30, 26 August 2009 (BST)

If you were fucking a sparkly vampire, you would not need this. --dgw 15:33, 26 August 2009 (BST)

[1]..... --Papa Johnny 15:35, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Exactly! --dgw 15:36, 26 August 2009 (BST)

You would once you realized due to the lack of pumping blood vampires can't "get it up" ♥ Moonie ^{Talk Testimonials} 15:39, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Unfounded assumptions about vampire anatomy, all the vampires I've known have been able to get it up. --dgw 15:43, 26 August 2009 (BST)

It would seem you have been had then by men (not real vampires) taking advantage of your unhealthy teen obsession with twilight, i'm sorry :( ♥ Moonie ^{Talk Testimonials} 15:45, 26 August 2009 (BST)

I'm not actually obsessed with it. However, if you can enjoy a nice hard, sparkly, cold cock and then tell me its owner is not a vampire, you're blinded by dislike for Twilight and thus in denial that the guy you're fucking is a vampire. --dgw 15:50, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Glitter and ice packs... ♥ Moonie ^{Talk Testimonials} 15:53, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Meh. If the sex is good, I'm not going to nitpick over whether or not the guy's really a vampire. --dgw 15:56, 26 August 2009 (BST)

*Preorders The Vamp* --Fiffy ^{404 ♥ OBR ♥ RRF} 16:09, 26 August 2009 (BST)

I also approve of this suggestion. --Fiffy ^{404 ♥ OBR ♥ RRF} 15:52, 26 August 2009 (BST)

What's the AP cost on this? .1? Besides that missing piece of information, this suggestion is A++++ would vote strong keep again. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 16:00, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Added 1 ap cost and note about infection to prevent death culting abuse. --Papa Johnny 16:01, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Suggestion upgraded to A++++++ would vote strong keep every time thanks to abuse limitations. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 16:03, 26 August 2009 (BST)

You are obviously taking the piss, however take away the damage and it would add a little harmless humour to the game so Meh :) --Honestmistake 17:01, 26 August 2009 (BST)

The damage was actually included to try and keep people from spamming it constantly and make them think twice before doing it 49 times. --Papa Johnny 17:12, 26 August 2009 (BST)

DUPE! Oh god what a dupe. I will dupe the flavor out of this duping dupe. Oh gawd oh gawd dupe dupe dupe...

oh god.

dupe--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 17:20, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Wrong suggestion. --Papa Johnny 17:23, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Just for a second assuming you are serious I would have to point out how easy this would make leveling for zergers who normally use whack n Fak to advance. --Honestmistake 17:47, 26 August 2009 (BST)

They would hit each their characters and FAK them anyways to level up, this doesnt change anything, they would X attacked Y then Y attacked X, now they just have X and healing X...perhaps there is a way to prevent XP from the FAK process if you head desked. Other then that is is balanced well to avoid Death Cultists abuse and would add much needed humor to the game. -- 

•   Timmah!  

•   Talk  

22:57, 26 August 2009 (BST)

Meh, it's not abuseable enough for leveling for it to be a concern in my book given FAK find rates. --Papa Johnny 23:53, 26 August 2009 (BST)

I support this suggestion unequivocally, as per Moonie. Now as for the zerg-levelling thing... If you made it a function of a skill you have to buy, then it'd be "balanced". Because it'd be the same as buying a couple of gun skills and going nuts. Question is, what skill? Headshot? Makes sense, but there are some characters who never buy Headshot (I have an alt or two like that) so it kinda shafts that RP choice :\ Any other ideas? --WanYao 00:39, 27 August 2009 (BST)

I think I've got it: Memories of Life! :D --WanYao 00:40, 27 August 2009 (BST)

lol!!! I like this idea as it would give me somethign to do when I want to waste AP :D --Gat 01:38, 27 August 2009 (BST)

It's a great suggestion, but be sure to submit it to Humorous Suggestions instead of the normal system. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:37, 27 August 2009 (BST)

Flavor and realism, not humorous. It's not nearly ridiculous enough to be humorous. --Papa Johnny 05:30, 27 August 2009 (BST)

Agreed. This is a real suggestion. --WanYao 03:33, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Okay if we're talking for reals I would spam this.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 18:38, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Giles, get that pole out of your ass, why are you always so pessimistic??? :P --Gat 19:46, 28 August 2009 (BST)

Because there's a pole in my ass.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 01:33, 29 August 2009 (BST)

lol ok, case settled then :D --Gat 19:33, 29 August 2009 (BST)

---

Toolbox vs. Heavy Barricades

Timestamp: -- boxy talk • teh rulz 13:20 25 August 2009 (BST)

Type: Accuracy change

Scope: Survivors removing barricades over VS

Description: Toolboxes are carried around by dedicated, maintenance orientated survivors, and would contain tools like pribars, hammers, handsaws, etc., that are perfect for removing the tangle of barricade material when the cades are more than VSB, but it's tools arn't very helpful when just levering away lighter cades, which just requires brute strength. The mechanics of this suggestion is that the halving of the melee weapon hit rate when aimed at barricades be removed from toolboxes, just like is currently the case with the crowbar, giving the toolbox a slightly higher hit rate (25% vs. 20%), but once the cades come down to VSB, the bonus is removed from the toolbox.

Discussion (Toolbox vs. Heavy Barricades)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: 5 September 2009 at 04:23 (BST)

This suggestion has been moved to my user space, while I consider how best to word if for submission. This discussion has been moved to one of my talk pages -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 10:00 3 September 2009 (BST)

---

Augmented Fear

Timestamp: GANG Giles Sednik CAPD 00:35, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Type: game change, new skill, skill change

Scope: zombie vs survivor confrontations

Description: Okay this suggestion is big and crazy but as a community we can work out the details. I propose that the element of fear in the game be expanded upon in the following ways: Game change:When a survivor is at 13HP or less, they experience mortal fear. Wild with terror, their fine motor skills diminish and their chance-to-hit for all attacks drops by 10% (or whatever % the community decides is best). Skill change:Zombies who have scent fear and scent death will now have an enhanced ability to smell the mortal fear of their prey. When they use scent death, the positions of survivors with 13HP or less will show up on the scent death map as red asterisks. Only one red asterisk will display per block, regardless of how many dying survivors are at that location. There would be no difference between survivors outside or behind barricades (negotiable). New skill:Survivors can purchase a new skill called "Focused Fear" (or whatever sounds best). It would be a civilian skill under body-building (or a military skill under hand-to-hand combat). It would cost the same as other survivor skills relative to its branch, ie civilian, military, scientific. Focused Fear can only be used when a survivor is at 13HP or less. Focused Fear is a survivor's ability to channel their near-death adrenaline rush to deal more damage with heavy melee weapons. They would deal an extra 2HP of damage (or whatever amount works best - the end result should better than a fire axe but not as good as a pistol) with heavy melee weapons like fire axes, toolboxes, lengths of pipe and baseball bats. Knives and fencing swords would be unnafected. Other weapons are up for debate. They would still have the 10% hit penalty with these weapons, because they are using crazy rage to attack, rather than precision and technique.--GANG Giles Sednik CAPD 00:35, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Discussion (Augmented Fear)

	WARNING
	This suggestion has no active discussion. It will be removed on: 6 September 2009 at 19:41 (BST)

Okay I realize this suggestion is hardcore and it involves a number of changes, but I think it would add greatly to the gameplay and to the fun of pitting survivors vs. zombies. My general idea is that greatly wounded survivors should feel an additional sense of impending peril. They should feel hunted.

Also, I like the risk/reward of being a constant target with low HP and dealing more damage. Finally, the zombie scent skills are extremely disappointing. Zombies should be granted a better hunting tool for maxing out the scent tree.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 00:46, 22 August 2009 (BST)

The skill should probably be a zombie hunter skill because a)Science doesn't make sense and we have too many military skills and b)It makes sense that this would be gained over time. Also, when you say "better" do you mean in AP spent per damage or flat out damage?--Uberursa 02:05, 22 August 2009 (BST)

That's a good question and I hadn't considered if it should be damage or AP efficiency. I want this to be a community developed suggestion so I'll leave it to you and the community to decide what would be the most balanced option. Also, you're right that it should be a zombie hunter skill, that makes more sense. Maybe it could be called Death Blow--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 02:30, 22 August 2009 (BST)

The effect of this is so vast that it really should probably be tried in a new city first, not in Malton, but I like the idea. It just needs a test drive somewhere before we could really know what effect it would have. Monroeville would be good for that if Kevan were to decide to reopen it.--Necrofeelinya 04:45, 22 August 2009 (BST)

As far as the weapons go, I'd imagine any of the "clubbing" weapons would apply. It doesn't take a lot of percision to swing a tennis racket or bat when your trying to crush something.--Pesatyel 06:38, 22 August 2009 (BST)

No. No. No. No. No. No. Just No. The Skill change is an acceptable alteration, it would even be good, but the rest is just horrible. Too much of a zombie buff.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:32, 22 August 2009 (BST)

I tried something like this once before. It didn't work. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 11:49, 22 August 2009 (BST)

As blake, there are several elements in this suggestion that have been tried before. User's don't like their accuracy etc being messed with beyond their control. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 15:31, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Fair enough, Yonnua. I like that you see some promise in the skill change and I respect your criticism. Let's try this: what specifically is wrong with the rest of the suggestion and what would you do to fix it?--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 19:17, 22 August 2009 (BST)

In real-time battles (although they aren't common, this is probably all they'd effect), survivors are already screwed by infection. We don't need to make the situation worse by lowering their accuracy. At the same time, we don't need survivors to be able to lower each other to 13hp, and run around dealing 12 damage a shell. --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 19:47, 22 August 2009 (BST)

I'm not sure you read the suggestion. YOu said above that "the skill change is an acceptable alteration". As I read the suggestion, the "skill change" is changing Scent Death to allow zombies to see those that are "dying". That is already waht Scent Fear does so that entire part is a little bit of a nerf. That is the only acceptable part? And "12 damage per shell"? The suggestion ONLY applies to melee weapons (most specifically axe, toolbox, pipe and bat unless he decided to include the others).--Pesatyel 20:39, 22 August 2009 (BST)

I missed the part about it only being melee. Still, a 5 damage axe? That would completely nerf the pistol.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:48, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Well he did say the damage was negotiable. Also, the 5 damage axe has lots of penalties to its use and I'd imagine that would offset the extra damage. A pistol does 5 damage, sure, but at 65% to hit (this would be, currently 30% to hit) and you can use a gun whenever as opposed to this where you have to be near death.--Pesatyel 21:09, 22 August 2009 (BST)

It actually only affects guns. A flak jacket wouldn't affect an axe, that would be stupid. No weapon should be able to deal 5 damage, or even 4 damage, without having to reload. It would be far over the top.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:08, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Not according to the game mechanics. The fact there are no melee weapons that, currently, do 5 or more damage does NOT change the game's mechanics. Hence why it becomes an issue in this suggestion. You DID read the suggestion right? Or are you saying all the negative associated with gaining the ability to do 5 damage with an axe are not enough? I'm not clear on why your displeased. Also, why would it 'be stupid" for a flak jacket to affect an axe?--Pesatyel 20:32, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Come back to me when you know what a flak jacket is.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:50, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Nice catc all answer and avoidance of actually answering. ;) That's fine.--Pesatyel 21:48, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Fine, I'll say it then. An axe would cut through a flak jacket easily. Flak jackets are built to resist gun and shrapnel attacks. Therefore, it would be stupid for an axe to be weakened by one. Therefore flak jackets only effect guns, not all weapons greater than 5.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:02, 23 August 2009 (BST)

My point was it is a GAME MECHANIC consideration, not a reality one. IF there is ever a melee weapon that does 5 or more, it will be effected by flak unless Kevan changes the mechanic and, given the circumstances, it is a relavant point in this discussion.--Pesatyel 22:22, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Well, no. Where did you get this nonsense about it effecting weapons of 5 or more from? It effects GUNS. if the fire axe did 5 or more, Kevan would make it so that it did not effect it. Plain and simple. Because a fire axe isn't a gun.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:35, 23 August 2009 (BST)

I got this "nonsense" from here. It only affects guns on technicality because there are no other weapons that do the same. Unless you count fire. We are talking a "gun" yes, but if you look down farther about the "fuel soaked clothes", fire ISN'T a gun, but still affected by flak. And, so you know, I'm NOT disagreeing with you. I'm only going by the mechanics AS WE KNOW THEM. If Kevan were to include a non-gun weapon that did 5+, he MAY make it so that flak isn't going to affect it. Or he may change the name to "body armor" or something, but regardless its what we know not what you think it should be until it is.--Pesatyel 01:24, 24 August 2009 (BST)

*clap, clap* You quoted an article written by another member of the game. Very well done. I also like how you've completely ignored that the fire isn't the aspect being effected, and the flare itself is, because it penetrates a far smaller surface area, thus rendering less fire on to the flesh. *clap, clap.* --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 12:24, 24 August 2009 (BST)

Ok. If you say so. Doesn't change the mechanics as we know them now does it.--Pesatyel 05:25, 25 August 2009 (BST)

1) Game Change: 10% is definately too much. I'd say 5% at best. But the point is to "simulate fear" in someone who is significantly injured, tired and afraid, right? What about having a % chance of an action costing +1 AP (it is taking more energy to do it because of the way you feel).

2) Skill Change: This part doesn't really make sense. Scent Fear already does this. It allows you see those that are "wounded" (25 HP) or "dying" (13 HP). And Scent Death doesn't apply at all (with regards to this situation) but Scent Bloood might by comparison. Either way this part is more of a nerf then a bonus.

3) New skill: Gotta agree, making it a Zombie Hunter skill sounds better.

4) Focused Fear: I'd think it would apply to any of the "clubbing" weapons. and +2 damage is fine, especially if you consider that those wearing flak (or with Flesh Rot) would get the reduction. What about having such attacks cost 2 AP (or, of course, as above a chance of costing that much).--Pesatyel 20:39, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Flaks only affect guns. The +2 damage would stand. Also, YOU are the one who's misread the suggestion. He says that on the Scent Death scan image that you get, it would show squares with injured survivors. Scent fear does not do this.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:48, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Flak affects only guns by technicallity. It affects ALL DAMAGE of 5 or more. And, again, this suggestion does not apply to guns anyway. And, yes I didn't consider that Scent Death would get a buff (mostly becuase that part is dumb and makes no sense since Scent Death applies to dead bodies and would thus not really apply to people that are still ambulatory). And Scent Fear, the point of Scent Fear, is to tell a zombie which players have 25 or 13 HP which is BETTER than what this suggestion is doing.--Pesatyel 21:06, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Beer and wine should (temporarily) stop fear, and the Focused Fear skill should be under Zombie Hunter. --Brainguard 20:51, 22 August 2009 (BST)

What is it with you and beer suggestions? Do you own a pub or something?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:55, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Does it matter? It isn't a bad idea to consider.--Pesatyel 21:07, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Actually, yes, it is. Alcohol has been added to the game as a 1hp heal item. It wasn't added to make being drunk look funny or cool, and definitely shouldn't make people think that being drunk makes you stronger. Alcohol has a purpose, this is not it's purpose.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:10, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Who said anything about making them look funny or be stronger (in this context)? His idea was that it negated fear temporarily. Nothing more. It's current purpose is as a 1 HP heal, true, but that was before this idea. Alcohol is commonly called "courage in a bottle" for a reason.--Pesatyel 21:26, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Because it makes people drunk? It doesn't actually make people mroe courageous. Hell, it makes people less courageous. And I was quite purposefully referrign to hsi suggestion, as you would have noticed if you'd paid attention to the scope of my comment.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:08, 22 August 2009 (BST)

I'm not advocating drinking. I'm not old enough to drink. But alchohol should have more effects and more of a purpose than a 1HP heal. --Brainguard 23:14, 22 August 2009 (BST)

And I suppose FAKs should have more use than they currently do too? And Newspapers? And books? Ooh, let's not forget poetry, that needs to cure infections. And let's not forget crucifixes, they need their almighty lasers of death. No. it has a use, and that's healing 1hp.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:45, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Actually the reason its called "courage in a bottle" is because alcohol lowers inhibitions (not always a good idea), it also tends to lead to increased aggression and "fearless" behaviour when taken to excess.. it was this reason that led to the insanely large rum rations given to british troops before battle in the 18th & 19th centuries. --Honestmistake 02:24, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Excessive amoutns of alcohol are also why Harold Godwinson lost at the battle of Hastings.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 12:25, 23 August 2009 (BST)

I suppose getting shot through the eye by an arrow didn't help things either. That william was such a bastard. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:16, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Actually, Harold, who had just finished battling Harald Hadrada in the North, had a diminished force, and so reruited an army of mainly peasants, all of whom got drunk the night before the battle. By the time they got to Hastings, it didn't matter that Harold and his brother were ploughed down by archers.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 13:39, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Where exactly did you get that from? Its true that Harald had just annihilated a viking army in the north but your drunken peasants story is new to me? --Honestmistake 23:26, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Well, it's correct. After he returned South to face William, his forces were diminished, he had to recruit untrained, inexperienced peasants, who knew they'd probably die, so they went out and got drunk the night before to celebrate or something. I dunno. --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:14, 25 August 2009 (BST)

So you were referring to brainguard's suggestion or gile's? Honestmistake actually summed up my point. I'm NOT saying drinking is a good idea. I'm saying that brainguard suggested it temporarily counter the effects of fear. How temporarily? No idea. Ask him. I just don't get all the piss and moan about it. In fact for all the negativity people have been spewing about it, how does alcohol even heal?--Pesatyel 20:41, 23 August 2009 (BST)

The flavour for alcohol healing should be that you pour it on wounds, but I'm sure people would complain about that. And I was referring to Brainguard's suggestion. And if you were drunk, and saw a zombie, you would suddenly stop being scared. Logic doesn't work that way.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:50, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Fine.--Pesatyel 21:55, 23 August 2009 (BST)

eh... I'm gonna stay neutral on this... --Gat 01:37, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Alright, I did the math and as is, the suggestion would raise the damage per AP of an Axe from 1.4 to 1.6 (damage per single AP) whereas the damage per AP for a pistol, (reload and fire) is 2.23 AP. --Uberursa 02:13, 23 August 2009 (BST)

I assume you counted searching for ammo?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 12:25, 23 August 2009 (BST)

No, but it would be somewhere around 1.15 damage per AP. I didn't want to anger the RNG--Uberursa 18:45, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Read Giles' comment below.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:40, 23 August 2009 (BST)

And your point is what?--Pesatyel 20:34, 23 August 2009 (BST)

There's a nice article on Median_Battle_Rating which lists the axe at an MBR of 1.2. With this suggestion, a survivor who was using the new skill would weild the fire axe for an MBR of 1.5, which would make it more powerful than a pistol or shotgun against a flak jacket, but less powerful than zombie claws and bites. SO, now that everyone has actually read the suggestion and sorted out what it means, what's wrong with it and how can I make it better?--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 21:11, 23 August 2009 (BST)

For starters, the axe shouldn't be better than the guns.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:40, 23 August 2009 (BST)

We just got into a stupid side argument about alcohol. So people aren't actually commenting on whether or not the fear penalties are enough to compensate for the bonuses granted. Or maybe they just don't think they do? Hard to say. That was the point I was trying to make with my "and your point is?" post. The suggestion ISN'T just allowing a player to do 5 with an axe. so maybe you need tougher penalties?--Pesatyel 21:53, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Or maybe, he needs to make it weaker. You shouldn't give someone something overpowered, and balance it by screwing them in another area. Just make it weaker.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:02, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Perhaps. But then all he could do would be +1 instead of +2. Is that significant enough? This whole idea is more of a "realism" suggestion then anything else and players should probably feel they are getting some "good enough" benefit to warrant including this in the game. If all it is penalties, only the handful of players that want more realism would like it. Nobody else would.--Pesatyel 22:22, 23 August 2009 (BST)

Exactly. I don't think that this suggestion is good. (Other than the scent death part).--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:35, 23 August 2009 (BST)

How is the Scent Death part good? Scent Death allows you to detect which corpses are reviving so, techmically, it is "Scent Revive Serum in Corpse". Not to mention you need Scent Fear (which already tells you which players are at or below 13 HP) so giving, basically, the same ablity to Scent Death would be both moot and meaningless.--Pesatyel 01:29, 24 August 2009 (BST)

He suggested adding an asterix to the scent death map, indicating where such survivors were. This would be useful to zombies in a besieged suburb, as it would allow them to find weakened buildings without having to resort to metagaming.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 12:24, 24 August 2009 (BST)

@ Pestayel - I'm not sure you understand how the suggestion would change scent fear and scent death. Do you know that scent death currently gives you a mini map of reviving and dead bodies? And you know scent fear just lists (wounded) or (dying) next to the names of survivors, right? What I'm proposing is a skill enhancement whereby zombies would know precisely where dying survivors are in their immediate area, via a mini map. Does that change your opinion on the skill enhancement?

Yes it does. Thanks for clarifying. But even so, Scent Death is moot. This could either be just an add on to Scent Fear or a new skill (but probably better the add on).--Pesatyel 06:30, 24 August 2009 (BST)

@ Yonnua, how about if a maxed fireaxe had an MBR of 1.3 with this suggestion? That puts it between a fire axe with a 1.2MBR (assuming maxed skills) and a pistol with a 1.37MBR (assuming maxed skills vs flack jacket). Also, what if it was 1.4? Would it still be imbalanced if the survivors using the skill had to take the trade-off of acting like a homing beacon for zombies in the area?--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 05:58, 24 August 2009 (BST)

1.3 would easily be acceptable. You'd have to convince me more on the 1.4. It wouldn't be that drastically difficult to have a group with 3 strike teams, one who knocks their members down to 13hp, that group then runs out and destroys all zombies in sight, returning to be healed by the third. But still, it's a lot of effort, so a 1.4 might well be acceptable.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 12:24, 24 August 2009 (BST)

Thank you both for your excellent input and for helping me to develop this. So, I agree that it's cheesy to put the skill change into scent death. Let's make it a change to scent fear as pestayel suggested. And I've been thinking about the survivor strike team idea and that is definitely a problem. While such a tactic would be rewarding groups for coordinated play, (and that's good), I'm not sure I like the idea of people putting each other into the death state so they can be more effective fighters.

My original vision is for the new fear dynamic to be a highly situational bonus for both sides, and the situation is when a zombie is tearing a survivor to shreds but can't quite finish the job. This should be a special situation where the survivor really feels the impending death and can swing away with some desperation attacks before succumbing to infection. I'm going to think more about how to implement this properly, and please feel free to comment with any ideas in the meantime.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 20:06, 24 August 2009 (BST)

Well, if you coudl pull it off so that it worked without abuse, that would be awesome. There should be benefits to be actually weakened to low health, but there's no real way I can see that people can't just do it to themselves. You could always say that you get a bonus / penalty / both if you've been attacked within 10 minutes, because that would be more reminiscent of fear, i feel. But still, not overly exciting or useful. So, I dunno. :S--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 00:14, 25 August 2009 (BST)

Okay, I've checked the math and it's possible to put the fireaxe at 1.4MBR and 1.32MBR. 1.4 is easy, it involves a 5% hit penalty and +1 damage. 1.32 is kinda cheesy since it involves a 7% hit penalty and +1 damage. Everything with accuracy in UD seems to work in increments of 5%. Anyways I've thought about it and developed a way to counter survivors spamming the new skill to devastate zombies. How about this: Survivors enter the "panic state" when a zombie attack brings their health below 14HP. The "panic state" ends when they either receive a FAK or when they die.

So in essence, the game mechanic would work something like infection in that it can only be caused by a zombie, and anyone offering aid can calm the survivor down and end their panic. This would prevent survivors from intentionally triggering the damage bonus and then healing each other, as you mentioned. Also it would make it highly difficult to zerg. Also, this would make the "panic state" an exhilarating experience for survivors, since it doesn't happen all that often. By the same token it would be fun and useful for zombies to sniff the air and zero in on a nice tasty snack that is guaranteed to be at very low health. What do you think?--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 06:48, 25 August 2009 (BST)

I love it. You've counterbalanced everything, and there's no way to fiddle it. Nicely done.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:08, 25 August 2009 (BST)

Okay great. I'll put it up for discussion with the new changes worked into the suggestion. Let's see what the rest of the community thinks about it now that we've had a chance to trim down the weak points.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 01:36, 26 August 2009 (BST)

I like the idea of it requiring a zombie to "put you in the state" but the main problem with that is that "live" combats are very rare. I'm not sure how much of a factor THAT will be. So a zombie puts me in "fear mode". Then what? I'd have to say you should only get to use the "bonus" against zombies. No P/G/Rking. The other idea I had was what if using the hit bonus had the chance of causing you damage. Not damage that could kill you, but say, for example, a 10% chance of doing a point of damage (or perhaps needing an additonal AP to complete the action).--Pesatyel 04:43, 27 August 2009 (BST)

Hmm, I would have to disagree with the chance of doing damage. That's adding a whole new element to it and people generally don't like causing damage to themselves. I want the suggestion to be fun, not aggrivating, and self inflicted damage is aggravating.

And as I understood it, we weren't talking about having this as a "live" combat feature. Any attack by a zombie that takes you under 14HP just makes you "afraid". From there you keep the damage bonus until you die or are FAKed.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 18:44, 28 August 2009 (BST)

No prob. It was just an idea that popped into my head. What did you think of the idea of only being allowed to use the "fear bonuses" against zombies? No P/G/Rking.--Pesatyel 04:12, 29 August 2009 (BST)

I can see some merit to that. It would be good because that would encourage zombie vs survivor combat, and that's my intention. My only reservation is that nothing else in the game works that way. All other attacks are possible against either survivors, zombies, barricades, generators, etc. I'm hesitant to suggest a change that introduces a "selective" attack, as there's no example in the game to model it on. I want to get this suggestion through with as little resistance as possible, and I'm afraid that adding elements or complications to it will only serve to present additional targets for people to have objections about.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 00:35, 30 August 2009 (BST)

Well actually, you cannot use guns, knives or bites against barricades. Something like this the concern is more about "flavor" maybe. If it makes sense that only a zombie can "activate" it, then it might make sense that "only zombies" are affected by it. To be honest, I could see it being useable against survivors but NOT against radios or generators. Your scared and, possibly, alone so it wouldn't make sense to attack the lights or the "voice". Simply put, your using your fear based adrenaline to defend yourself against threats (be them living or undead).--Pesatyel 08:45, 30 August 2009 (BST)

So your idea is to further cripple those who are already near death? Sorry, no. - Foxtrot 19:41, 30 August 2009 (BST)

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