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General Discussion

JISOR/Halfdan and Mekhan/Tarpenz

Assuming these 4 are all ruled vandalism, are their votes in the election all struck? Would remove 2 additional votes from Stelar, leaving them at 23. --【ⅎooɹd ǝʌɐɥ ᴉ sʇɐoƃ sʍoʅʚ ⅎǝᴉɹɔuoɯ uǝɹɐʞ】 ☉ ☉ |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 07:58, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

We'd strike only the second (time-wise) of the votes for each candidate; e.g. JISOR's first two votes would remain, but any by Halfdan Pisket would be struck. Same with Mekhan/Tarpenz — Mekhan's votes remain, but Tarpenz's have been struck. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 12:15, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

I corrected the title for clarity. I have not been connected to the other two accounts. -- 14:47, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

JISOR’s final vote was made after both of Pisket’s. If a user has two votes, I believe it would make sense for all votes struck after the first two votes by a single user. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 14:54, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Oh, unless of course that scenario would end in a double vote like you described. Apologies. DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 14:56, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Totally right. I didn't realize Halfdan's were timestamped before JISOR's. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 15:15, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

User:Sister Mary

moved from main page

Blanked User talk:Sniper4625 - normally I would give benefit of the doubt, but they seem quite hostile, so I thought I would bring it to your attention. Regards~ Sniper4625 (talk) 23:32, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

I won't need any benefit of doubt, thanks for considering my feelings though. After reading I wanted to have my talk page protected both Sniper and Dragontard came to write on my page - if you don't want any hostile behavior I suggest you fuck off and leave me alone :) I don't even know who the fuck you guys are. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sister Mary (talk • contribs) 23:37 June 3 2018.

Oh right. Ban the fuck outta my account if you feel like it Mr. System-Operator-Boss. I have no problem editing some page to get my message across to people who have a hard time getting it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sister Mary (talk • contribs) 23:38, 3 June 2018 (UTC).

-- LABIA on the INTERNET ^{Dunell Hills Corpseman} #24 - |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ^TMG 00:05, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Now now, there's no need to be rude and start flinging insults. --Dragonshardz (talk) 23:41, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Might I inquire why you decided the best choice of action to a harmless greeting was a rule-breaking act of vandalism? Quite rude. Sniper4625 (talk) 23:40, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Given talk pages are a pretty important element of regulating user behavior without needing to ban anyone the instant they step out of line, I'm really not sure Sister Mary has any interest in learning or following any of the community norms of the wiki. Swissaboo (talk) 23:51, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Per their talk page now they apparently have gotten many such pages deleted, which somewhat confuses me. Sniper4625 (talk) 23:52, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Adding onto this, in their protection request they clearly have no interest in bothering with the proper formatting for responding to other users and on their talk page they have placed the nominated for deleting template without any actual nomination for deletion having occurred. I don't know how much of this is actually against wiki RULES (except perhaps that last one?) but they're very clearly running roughshod over the expected standards of behavior. Swissaboo (talk) 00:00, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm sure you meant WIKI LAW when you said RULES. --Dragonshardz (talk) 01:23, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

This was exactly the point of having my talk page protected - the horde/jack/whateverzergs can't seem to leave me alone :) Sister Mary (talk) 00:10, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

The Jack got run out of town on a rail. Try again. --Dragonshardz (talk) 01:26, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

You never did explain why you thought breaking the rules in a very rude way was the best course of action, and why you thought getting demonstrably mad would make people pay *less* attention to you. Sniper4625 (talk) 00:24, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

The reason is pretty simple, and I thought you got the message, but okay, I will clarify for you why = I don't like you :) I will eat my warning with pleasure, don't worry about it! But.. this isn't your first time harrassing people, correct? I like that you feel like you have the upperhand over a guy that made 200+ edits within the last 24 hours, and only vandalized a single page of a user that didn't really go about making "a good-faith attempt to improve this wiki" by trying to trigger me by invading my talk page. Im looking forward as to how this will play out. I will just make another account and keep on editing from there so I didn't lose anything catching myself a warning, other than shifting focus to you ugly bunch of motherfuckers :D Sister Mary (talk) 00:39, 4 June 2018 (UTC) (See, I use my template just like you want to!)

Isn't sockpuppeting to avoid wikipunishments in itself a punishable offense? You just keep digging. Sniper4625 (talk) 01:18, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

I see that you're trying to put words in my mouth - unfortunately thats not going to happen. As stated, I will be let of with a warning so I have no intention, and never have I stated that I would sneak away from any punishment. I think it's great that everyone can see how you guys clearly are trying to engage some sort of drama - otherwise you would have left me alone, like I asked to be. So if you think again, I will ditch this account to prevent people like you from being a harrassment. But regarding the sockpuppet behavior - how do we work out the fact that 3 different people came around at the same time, all with the same purpose, and all with the intention of trying to give me a bad time - did you guys coordinate some sort of drama on my behalf - After asking for my talk page to be isolated from people like you. I think im gonna need your shovel m8, seems like it digs that much faster than mine :) Sister Mary (talk) 02:00, 4 June 2018 (UTC) (Ohhhhh snap.)

Are you back, Jack? Because you're making the same "alts!" argument he did, and he was similarly disproven. I'm not sure how I put words in your mouth when you said "I will just make another account and keep on editing from there," but well, I did appreciate your attempt to sic Aichon on my compatriot. Too bad it failed. Sniper4625 (talk) 02:08, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

AHHHHHHHH :D I was actually just waiting for someone to pull out the "you're a Yocum" card! Sure dude - let's say im a Jack. I must be a great Jack. I mean, I edited 2 suburbs completely and have been editing the EMRP for 6 months on another account - but sure! YOU GOT ME! :D Im getting the idea that your dick is all so im gonna leave you to play with that! I will be back with another account, to edit another 200+ locations. Meanwhile you guys will have to enjoy yourself being annoying towards someone else! :D —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sister Mary (talk • contribs) 02:22, 4 June 2018.

Vandalism and a Warning. Don't blank other's pages. I'll serve the warning officially over at the Sister Mary page, but I assume you'll see it here as well. And yes, warnings carry over between accounts. —Aichon— 02:51, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

So...how does the wiki handle a user rage-reverting their own edits? --Dragonshardz (talk) 03:09, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Rage reverting? I edited 3 locations due to them being wrong :D Aichon you said something about the parties in question should talk, the rest should shut up. If this doesnt qualify as harrassment I don't know what will. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sister Mary (talk • contribs) 03:14, 4 June 2018 (UTC).

Sounds to me like someone is finally bored of this game and is getting one last laugh out of the community by being as much as a cunt as possible on his way out. Either that or it's his time of month and he's out of pads.---- ^{FoD PK Praise Rando!}06:37, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" A ZOMBIE ANT 00:02, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

User: Revenant

Now think about it, I have a very distant memory of a user who used to remove all signatures of everyone else on their talk page as a kind of norm, but I can't remember who it was, or if it actually happened. Might have been Iscariot, maybe even Finis. Does this sound right to anybody? A ZOMBIE ANT 22:44, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, there was somebody, but fuck if I remember who it was. I think the logic was that if there was no signature, they could do whatever they wanted to the content and it didn’t count as impersonation? ЯЭV⁠€⁠NΛИ† ||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 00:56, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Oh god, I hope it never went that far. I can't help but feel it was Iscariot just being a bit narky about stuff. A ZOMBIE ANT 06:39, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

User:The Goth Store Owner

*snif* *snif* I smell drama. Is there drama ? OH MA GOSH IS DRAMA!!! --hagnat 21:39, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

The sooner they learn that 90% of this dispute should be on A/Arbitration the sooner I can sleep at night. A ZOMBIE ANT 01:07, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Is there a minimum time cases need to stay on the main VB page? Can't this shit just be moved to archives and locked? --_K^CLZA 21:48, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

A/VB is now archived on an annual basis, so it'll be cycled in January 2016. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 21:54, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

So quiet

* shuffles around looking for drama to feed on, finds none *
What happened to this place ? --hagnat 20:46, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me to drop the DramaLevel. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 21:05, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Hagnat spamming an administrative talk page was the excuse I needed to fulfill our VB case quota required by Kevan. To the wikicourt with him at once! -- Spiderzed▋ 21:18, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

I like where this is going. Step back everyone, I got A/M covered. A ZOMBIE ANT 06:09, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

The fact that the drama level was updated almost prompted me to raise it a level, since that's more drama than we've had in months. —Aichon— 06:49, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

DDRs threat to use A/M before there even is a VB verdict alienates me. I will pre-emptively file an arbitration to forbid him from posting on A/M for 5.73 venusian years. -- Spiderzed▋ 20:44, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Foiled again by the cabal. A ZOMBIE ANT 00:54, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I think you can update the DramaLevel to the lesser level of drama. This place is so quiet. --hagnat 16:23, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Ehh, I'm still a little on alert from the big bot attack last week. Not a true old-school drama, but it qualifies. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 18:20, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

It seems the big bot attack got under controle. Whoever pulled that out, congrats :) --hagnat 17:27, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Bots Discussion

Return of old, already banned, bots

Over the past couple of days, bots who were previous banned have been spamming again. Has the recent update of the wiki somehow unbanned them? -- boxy 10:35, 27 December 2014 (BST)

Hmm

It's been a few years, but we're getting a wave of bots again. Thoughts? Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 01:57, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully it's just a random burst, not a consistent thing? --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 04:26, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

More spammers stuck inside? I gather fraud attempts are way up at the moment. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 08:01, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Has it been going on for a while? Like beyond this week? DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 10:11, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

No, not yet. I just realized I've gotten complacent because we've had so few. If it continues for more than a week or so we can ponder other options. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 17:19, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully it's just a flareup for now... DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 23:31, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, like acne. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 23:36, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Yeah.... acne.... DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 00:14, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Anyone want to review this? They're still here, and popping them isn't helping. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 22:33, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Do you think the captcha needs to be updated? If so I can try to get in touch with Kev. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 14:36, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Considering we all have better things to do than continuously ban spambots, probably worth asking! stelar ^{Talk|MCM|EBD|Scourge} 20:47, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

I guess whoever has his ear, go for it. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 23:47, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Bots Discussion

Return of old, already banned, bots

Over the past couple of days, bots who were previous banned have been spamming again. Has the recent update of the wiki somehow unbanned them? -- boxy 10:35, 27 December 2014 (BST)

Hmm

It's been a few years, but we're getting a wave of bots again. Thoughts? Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 01:57, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully it's just a random burst, not a consistent thing? --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 04:26, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

More spammers stuck inside? I gather fraud attempts are way up at the moment. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 08:01, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Has it been going on for a while? Like beyond this week? DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 10:11, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

No, not yet. I just realized I've gotten complacent because we've had so few. If it continues for more than a week or so we can ponder other options. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 17:19, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully it's just a flareup for now... DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 23:31, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, like acne. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 23:36, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Yeah.... acne.... DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION 00:14, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Anyone want to review this? They're still here, and popping them isn't helping. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 22:33, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Do you think the captcha needs to be updated? If so I can try to get in touch with Kev. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 14:36, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Considering we all have better things to do than continuously ban spambots, probably worth asking! stelar ^{Talk|MCM|EBD|Scourge} 20:47, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

I guess whoever has his ear, go for it. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 23:47, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

December 2010

Zombie Man 11(2)

Im saying vandalism its almost like he or she is trying to break wiki i just started and saw some extremely racist comments on the Suburb map--Nexus 02:14, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Think it goes without saying but definitely Vandalism. I haven't seen a freak out like this on UDWiki before so whatever punishment sysops decide to dole out is fine with me. The longer the better in my opinion. ~ 03:18, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Now why'd you have to go and do that, Vapor, right after I said I'd vote for you in a heartbeat? You can't rule on cases. Only sysops can. It'll definitely be a longer heartbeat now. —Aichon— 06:57, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I thought it was more of a voting thing. Still green to wiki policy. Oh well. Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Won't take me long to stop being such a policy greenhorn. ~ 01:12, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

I say just slap down a perma. We've cut this guy enough slack and he just went on a wild blanking rampage. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 05:28, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd say three-edit rule his ass. Has a single one of his "contributions" been left unreverted? I think we've had to revert every single one that wasn't in his userspace, and now he's gone on a vandalism spree. —Aichon— 06:57, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Also, if you don't 3ER him, I'd definitely go with Mis' thinking on the matter, and handle each page separately. —Aichon— 06:58, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I say ban for a week, to get his attention and show that we mean business, as well as escalate him to the point that we can have a permaban-vote him next time. He's made a good amount of textbook vandalism; BUT he has made a handful of helpful edits, and if we beat him hard enough, he just might become a regular contributor. That's not to say we should trust him enough to not permaban him the moment he refuses to embrace a last chance, just that we shouldn't toss our hopes after a handful of vandalism. In fact, excluding the recent page blanking, most of his edit were just incompetant, not malicious. --VVV ^RPMBG 07:03, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Without escalating him 5 times in a row, they can't just ban him for a week, since the administrative guidelines explicitly prohibit jumping ahead like that ("A user must be warned at least twice...before a system operator may administer the first ban"). And to escalate him again, it sounds like you're suggesting they apply an additional one-month ban on him as well, but then not enforce it. You just can't do that. There's procedure to follow. Also, he hasn't made a single helpful edit. Every single edit was reverted, except for those to his own talk page. They may not have been malicious, but none were helpful. —Aichon— 07:17, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

He tried to update a danger report, and voted four times on humourous suggestions. But you make a good point on the whole procedure front, and I'd prefer to just ignore those and permaban him now, rather than wait for seven more acts of vandalism. --VVV ^RPMBG 07:31, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

At first I thought this guy was just new to the wiki and honestly didn't know where to post suggestions. The fact that he repeatedly ignored direction was annoying but didn't really think he should be banned. After I witnessed his bout of vandalism today though, I actually think it was a regular wiki user. Specifically because someone that clueless would likely not have been bale to find their own vandal case. This is pretty telling as well. What kind of newbie knows to edit inclusion pages when vandal fucking the wiki? It seemed deliberate and premeditated. I'd take a good look at the IP data and mete out punishment accordingly. ~ 07:06, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I linked him to the vandal case on his talk page yesterday. And he just clicked the edit link for that section. Since the section is an inclusion, it took him to the included page. He seems to have done that with most of his edits, in fact, since it looks like he didn't discover the edit link at the top until a little bit into his vandalism spree. —Aichon— 07:17, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I think that ZM11 is an irredeemable douche and serial vandal who should better go now than later. That being said, 3ER doesn't apply, as there were a few constructive edits among his contributions (see Trip's pointers). Probably wouldn't take someone to A/M if they invoke the rule looking at the concrete case, but it still isn't something that should be done. Personally, I'd go with Mis' initial proposal and throw multiple VB cases on him to escalate him multiple times in one straight flush (potentially up to 2nd month ban and thus perma vote). -- Spiderzed▋ 11:40, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

You guys turned him into a vandal by failing to clearly communicate with the dude. I've read the comments on his talk page, and while some of you were at least being polite, no one was really being all that helpful. With new users you really have to spell things out in black and white. Assume they know nothing about the wiki and clearly explain how to make the correct edit in a certain situation. No one did that. Mostly it was a lot of "your edit was wrong, stop it", or "here's a link to a bunch of stuff you won't read". Then you drop a vandalism case on him and he freaks out and goes on a vandal spree. Not justifiable on his part, but certainly understandable. Newbs need to actually be welcomed to the wiki and shown the ropes. Dropping a WN template on their page and doing fuck all to show them around ensures that they will continue to mess up and that will create more work for everyone down the road. If you're going to welcome people to this wiki take the time to do it right or gtfo of their talk pages. My opinion anyway.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 01:57, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Yep. Clearly multiple points in the same (right) direction are what cause people to go on racist page-wiping sprees. You can't just judge new members by a different set of rules to established members - if they do something that's clearly wrong, that's that, there's no point in pandering to them. And if they can post useless bollocks multiple times then they clearly have enough of a grasp on the language to read a page of repeated aid. 02:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Isn't he banned yet?--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 02:57, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Zombieman 11

Vandalism - since he just vandalized this page by deleting the vandal case against him. ~ 02:23, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism he deleted a suberb map and other inportant data a removal of hisaccount would justify it--Nexus 01:47, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

User:Poodle of doom

I agree more with Mis on this one, but Yonn says a lot of stuff that's correct too. Whether or not Poodle committed vandalism is absolutely something that is to be determined on A/VB, not A/A. That said, A/VB is limited to escalating him, and cannot prevent him from posting on Kevan's talk in the future. Clearly Mis does not think that Poodle's spammish actions constitute vandalism, but the case still falls into A/VB territory if it's approached this way, since it's dealing with his past (mis)deeds.

That said, it also falls into A/A territory, since if someone (e.g. Ross) is seeking to block future edits, that's something that A/A is used for, not A/VB, since sysops are not granted that authority on A/VB. Basically, depending on how the case is pursued, it could go to either page. If you want to try and punish Poodle for what he's already done, use A/VB. If you want to prevent him from doing more, use A/A. Whether or not either one will be effective towards those ends is an entirely different matter, and I wouldn't hazard a guess there. There's also the question of which is more appropriate, but I think that that's a matter of opinion. If you think he committed vandalism, clearly you'd think A/VB is more appropriate. If you think he didn't, you'd say A/A is better. Simple as that, and both stances are valid, I think.

Personally, I agree with Mis in thinking that this isn't vandalism, since I recall no precedent regarding people being escalated for commenting on a user's talk page when that user hasn't specifically asked the commenter to stop. For those of you that think otherwise, how do you reconcile it with the malicious posting that quite a few people (including current sysops) have aimed at the talk pages of various trolls in the past? They repeatedly posted on those talk pages, sometimes even despite the requests of the user to stop. That seems far more egregious to me than this case, yet is considered permissible.

Others are welcome to disagree with my assessment of whether or not what he did should be escalated or which page is more appropriate for hearing out the case, but most of the A/VB vs. A/A stuff seems pretty straightforward to me, since it's just a matter of what the pages are meant to be used for. —Aichon— 22:19, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Forgot the most important part: y'all are idiots. —Aichon— 22:21, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Just to chirp in with a non-sysop/non-former sysop opinion here. I happen to agree that this kind of spamming of Kevan's talk page should be discouraged by vandal escalations or warnings if necessary, simply because it's the only public avenue of communicating with the game's creator. It's a blurry area because we shouldn't discourage commentary on his page, and we also don't know the wishes of the user in question (Kevan). But senseless spamming of this nature could certainly be considered in bad faith.

From this perspective poodle should have known better and he probably deserves at least a warning. However, I wanted to make an important distinction in that I disagree with the line of reasoning that poodle should have stopped and should be escalated because he was TOLD to stop. A sysop is a janitor, not an admin, and has no "badge of authority" to tell other users what to do. Failure to comply with what a sysop wants should never be used as an argument for vandal escalating any user. Ever. Two cents.--_GANG Giles Sednik _CAPD 13:16, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Good points. Personally, I don't like to think of it as a matter of "I warned him unnoficially in my capacity as a sysop so therefore it's insta vandalism", I just like to think of it as a hint to him that he was going too far and if he continues it would by my personal definition, fit into the realms of vandalism (whether I were a sysop or not). You're right though, the idea that my warning to him has been treated as evidence of some sort of official soft warning isn't an act we should encourage. -- LEMON #1 23:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

For the record, am I allowed to say anthing in these things? -Estacado^Talk 23:22, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah totally. Main page though, not talk, because you're involved.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:23, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Nah, he's allowed to talk here. There's nothing restricting him from saying anything on the talk page to a non-involved party. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:28, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but I presume he wants to defend his case, in which case it should be on the main where the sysops are more likely to see it. :P --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:31, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Just in case it comes up. I find it better if Aichon talks anyway. -Estacado^Talk 03:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

In that case, I think I'm done saying anything else. As a user, I think you should be punished for what you did, since the other's have an INCREDIBLY valid point. Cluttering up the game developer's talk page like you did was a douche move, massively immature, and really just stupid. Kevan is essentially a precious resource to the community, and you were squandering it. If you do get escalated, you had it coming. —Aichon— 13:56, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Doodles has been annoying the heck out of me with his spam, and I think he's a massive twat. That being said, without arbies there are no teeth to this case. See the precedence of when Bungholio tried to get Imthatguy, The Colonel and me escalated for spamming his talk page. (Look especially at Aichon's arguments in the Colonel case.) Granted, Kevan's talk page might be widely watch-listed - but so has been Bungholio's talk at the heyday of the NSU drama (at least among the active users who are likely to use admin pages). And the spam on Bungholes page has probably been even worse as far as quantity goes. -- Spiderzed▋ 23:50, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

^^^This. I was actually going to cite those cases as well, but decided not to since my comment was already too long. —Aichon— 23:57, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

There is a HUUUUUUUUUGE difference between Kevan and Cornholioo, as many people have already said (giles did it well). Besides, the reason people, say, I, didn't get considered for escalation was because when it got into the exessive spamming (and note, it was for swearing not spamming that he got cut at most. me anyway) I only came and confronted him with actual messages of importance regarding the wiki or his group or something. Poodle, did not.

Oh, and Corn brought people after breaching his "asking them not to" after they did one edit. Poodle did three, one of them being a 3 paragraph monologue of complete shit. There is no way you can reliably compare these cases... -- LEMON #1 00:07, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

For all three of the linked cases, they posted quite a few times (mostly before being told to stop) before being brought to A/VB, just as Poodle posted quite a few times before being brought to A/VB. Since both Corn's warning and yours carried no official authority, they had and have no bearing on the cases. Essentially, the cases just boil down into a situation where people posted trash repeatedly to someone else's talk page and were brought to A/VB later. Since, as you said, none of us have the authority to officially warn someone to stay off someone else's talk page, the only official way we have to handle this is if Kevan himself makes an A/A case against Poodle, wins a restraining order, and Poodle later breaks it.

That said, this is Kevan we're talking about, as you said. Basically, were this anyone but Kevan, I'd see no issue at all. Open and shut in Poodle's favor. No doubt in my mind at all. But because it is Kevan, I can definitely see some room for wiggling with the rules a bit. Kevan does have some special rules applied to him already. That said, this is not one of them, so, at least for now, I'd still go with NV, but would likely try to get some more policies in place to protect Kevan officially. —Aichon— 00:34, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

No one was warning him to stay off Kevan's talk page. It's a warning to not spam and unnecessarily take up the time and effort of the developer of the game, and therefore risk jeopardising his willingness to communicate with us as a community in the future. That's what I was always concerned about and was working towards protecting. -- LEMON #1 04:42, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

The Cornholioo cases were quite clearly about harassment, where users were personally attacking another. It was most definitely a personal grievance. But, in this case, there is no such personal grievance. I'd wager Kevan doesn't even know who Poodle is. It's far more suited to spamming, which is what should be dealt with here. And while we're at the point of 'Kevan should defend himself as a regular user', he shouldn't, as you pointed out, because he's never here. He should have somebody who he can rely on to deal with page spammers as they arise. Kevan's talk page has gone beyond being just a talk page, and it's more of an Official Requests and Questions page. Now, imagine if there were two pages in the UDWiki namespace: UDWiki:Official Requests and UDWiki:Official Questions. The purpose would be that people would post and Kevan would check the posts for meaningful comments and queries. If Poodle had gone to one of these pages and performed the exact same conduct, he would be without-a-doubt guilty of vandalism. Quite possibly as soon as he had posted the long paragraph comment, but more likely by the time he had posted the third snow comment. That's how we should look at it, because Kevan's talk page isn't just a talk page, it's the only way to get official requests and questions to the game designer.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:50, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

While I agree with you that that's how it should be done, we have no rules in place right now to enforce it as such. You're essentially suggesting ad hoc rules for policing his page since we didn't have any already. I'd suggest that we get something similar to what you just wrote up put into policy. As for Cornholioo's cases, while the overriding idea may have been harassment, had they been cases of spamming, they clearly would have been escalated as such. Since I see no significant differences between the quantity or nature of posts that were made back then and the ones made now (and ignoring the Kevan factor in all of this), the only logical conclusions are that we either entirely forgot about escalating for spam back then (we didn't), or that they simply weren't spam cases (they weren't), and thus the current case isn't either. If you want to legislate from the bench to make new precedents that dictate how people can behave on Kevan's page, that's one thing, but I see no way that this would otherwise be considered spamming by any definition of the word that we've ever used up to now or according to any precedents that have ever been set. —Aichon— 13:48, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

^This. I agree that special rules should apply to Kevan's page. Sadly, there aren't yet any policies covering that. While I can understand on some level how and why ops come up with ad-hoc rulings to treat Kevan's page differently (see especially DDR's excellent reasoning), it makes me feel a bit queasy, as that could widely open the doors for rulings that aren't grounded in policy. -- Spiderzed▋ 16:00, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

All of these potential cases under this precedent would all be ruled on by sysops anyway, so like all precedents it's hard to think the sysop team will manage to come up with an unfair ruling. Seriously, this case is probably going to be not vandalism, how hard would it be for the precedent to be used unfairly in the future? At the moment it seems someone would have to do a pretty shocking job on Kevan's talk page to get any sort of warning at all. -- LEMON #1 00:16, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I understand that, and I apologize since I did misstate that a bit. What you just said is what I agree with and understood to be the case here. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the fact that what said to him, as far as anything official goes, was a non-factor. Had you said it or not, it would have made no material impact on the case. That's all I was getting at. —Aichon— 13:48, 10 December 2010 (UTC)