UDWiki:Administration/Sysop Archives/J3D/2008-07-13 Promotion

Administration » Sysop Archives » J3D » 2008-07-13 Promotion

This page is an archive of J3D's Promotions candidacy, which was unsuccessful. If you wish to speak with this candidate, please use their Talk page.

User:J3D

I think that Jed is a fantastic and valuable member of the UD wiki community. He has contributed for over a year and would only excel as a member of the administration team. Jed is the co-founder of ALiM, which has spawned such successful guides as ELiM and the Death Rattleable locations in Malton lists. An accomplished writer, Jed is responsible for the literary genius that is the Great Fire of 1912, as well as being a volunteer in many arbitration cases. After an initially rocky ride in the wiki community, Jed has built a strong rapport with the Administration team, attempting to bridge the gap between newer wiki users and the veteran contributors. If elected, I believe that Jed would only enhance the Wiki experience for all Users.Ellaandcharlie 14:39, 13 July 2008 (BST)

Heh. Well i wouldn't have nominated myself but since i'm here...might as well let the community (crats) decide whether or not i am worthy of such an honour.--xoxo 07:18, 14 July 2008 (BST)

Having seen Grim's first reason for rejecting The Rooster as a sysop (and the fact that Rosslessness asked this awhile back) i figured i should address why i want to be a sysop. For awhile now i have looked at sysopship as something that would be a good way to increase my input into the wiki and becoming a more useful community member. My main motivations to becoming a sysop is to get my hands on the ban hammer! are to become more involved in altering wiki policy and closing the gaping loopholes that currently exist (page creation as mentioned by me below and arbies are the two that first spring to mind) as well as working on a/vb (jokes aside i feel i would make a good vandalism-page-sysoping-dude).

I'd like to thank all my vouchers (and hey, even you abstainers who gave good reasons) for their support through this trying election campaign. I'd also like to give out a shoutout to my homeboi Nick who showed me urbandead, brought me to the wiki and whom without, none of this could ever have been possible. Grim, Boxy, show us what cha got.--xoxo 07:55, 24 July 2008 (BST)

• Abstain, pending an answer to the following questions: why do you want to be a sysop? and how will your behaviour change if you are elected?--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:57, 13 July 2008 (BST)
• Abstain Against - I know J3D and I think he's a great guy. I also actually think that in many ways he has the "right stuff" to be a sysop. Really, I do... But with one giant-sized exception: the silly antics which keep getting him vandal warnings. Sheeesh, already, J3D... Thus, unless he can convince me otherwise, I have to vote against. --WanYao 19:07, 13 July 2008 (BST)
  • Question for the candidate: How would you handle problem users and trolls on the wiki? For example, the troll comment below by cyberbob -- which I have taken to VB. How would you rule on such cases? --WanYao 22:28, 14 July 2008 (BST)
    • Your first question is incredibly broad and i'm not exactly sure what you mean, however the A/VB system is in place to deal with 'problem users' on the wiki. As to your example my answer would be that his first edit is clear vandalism as it was page breaking however as that could be a mistake i would simply revert it. His edit that made the same post without breaking the page was not straight out vandalism however considering it was so obviously bad faith (as you pointed out) and Cyberbob should know better i would rule vandalism. You also asked how i would rule on 'such cases' and it's impossible to answer that as i'm not sure what you mean by 'such'. I think clear cut bullshit like 500 W's on an admin page is vandalism, yet i don't think the same thing on a user's talk page is vandalism. Also i think that edits that are only partially related to the discussion at hand (this is particularly relevant on a/vb), provided they do not get out of hand are fine to remain and i would not consider vandalism. If you want to hear what my ruling would be on more cases feel free to ask however can you be more specific Wan? Thanks :P --xoxo 13:31, 15 July 2008 (BST)
      • You're right and I apologise for not being specific. I was referring to that BAAAWL post of course, which is now gone -- and for which the poster got a Vandal Ban. Thanks for your answer. --WanYao 03:56, 16 July 2008 (BST)
  • Another question - This is very simple. Will you stop the anarchist acts ;P that have got you a couple of vandal warnings? Can you explain why we ought to trust you with as a sysop, given this record? Admittedly, it's a pretty minor record... But, it's become an issue. This is a chance for you to explain yourself, J3D, not an "attack". --WanYao 05:43, 16 July 2008 (BST)
    • While on paper it certainly looks like i'm up there with the most vandalicious users on the wiki, although almost all of them have been very minor and several of them not bad faith edits or only anti finis. and yes finis is a user and thus shouldn't be targeted and giving me sysop powers could make it easier for me to vandalise finis however considering the fact that i can assure you finis will be on the prowl looking out for me to stuff up so he can a/m me and get me demoted i hardly think that is a concern. So as difficult as it may be i hand on heart will cut out the illegal side of the anti finis war should this promotion bid succeed. 2 of my other vandal edits were related to ALiM and times that i overstepped the mark with innapropriate descriptions. These have both been sorted out via a landmark arby case that demonstrates what is and isn't okay regarding location page descriptions. Since that arby case ALiM has caused me no further vandalism :). The one remaining vandalism edit and the one that i presume concerns most people who have bothered flicking through my record is my July 12th infraction that involved the creation of a series of spammy group pages. While i admit it was stupid and we went too far, the vandalism brought up an issue that another more recent vandalism case has once more brought to the fore and something that a feel needs to be further clarified in wiki policy. The issue i refer to is that of group pages and what constitutes a 'real' group. I find it very interesting that while the admin team were willing to fob off Nick, Read and my group pages as vandalism (which, i agree they were) they were unwilling to confront the issue we brought up that anyone can create a page of anything they want and claim it is a 'group page' and provided the idea is within reason the page can never be removed from the wiki (since the crit 12 removal). Now a legitimate case has come up around the issue and despite having adequate time and being fully aware of the case not a single member of the admin team has ruled on the case. Before you ask Wan, my view would be that the page is not vandalism as it could be a real ingame group however policy should be created that brings back crit 12 or in some other way removes the ability of anyone to create any group page they want without having to worry about it getting removed. Sorry about that tangential rant but the question and my answer sorta lead me straight to it :P To conclude the answer to your questions are yes i do plan on stopping the vandalism and pursuing the appropriate avenue when dealing with issues that arise on the wiki and yes i feel my record should in no way stop people from trusting me as most of the edits were targetted at a specific user, i have stated that i will avoid such vandalism in the future and of course the fact that as a sysop i wouldn't get away with spammy vandalism bullshit and would be misconducted (word?) and potentially demoted. Sorry if there's grammatical errors in there i cbf proof reading.--xoxo 09:44, 17 July 2008 (BST)
  • This is going to be VERY rushed, sorry... OK...What I like about that answer is at least it attempts to be honest and for the most part doesn't try to pretend or rationalise away your past actions. I also understand breaking the rules to make a point: I did the same recently and technically I have a vandal warning -- which no one has followed through with.... Hmmmmm... Another thing I really appreciate about you, J3D, is that you actually want to take a stand on "cleaning up the crap" that's been going on on the wiki lately. Your history in Admin pages proves this to me. Even your vandalism case is in that vein.... What I don't like however is your mention of Crit 12-ish... You showed a real faliure to understand the rules of the wiki... B/c we do actually delete group pages, man, we do it all the time -- and you know it! Or I thought you did... I also disagree with you on that case, I see it as cearly vandalism, to be honest, merely trolling and in bad faith... I'm a little suprised by your position, since it's this kind of stuff you usually take the right stand on, IMO, and which is one of the reasons I want to support your bid... I'm going to think about this, I have contemplated Abstaining as it is... We'll see... Anyhoo, thanks for the forthright answer. --WanYao 14:42, 17 July 2008 (BST)

• Vouch - Fights the good finis war!--THE Godfather of Яesensitized, Anime Sucks ^{Yalk | W! U! WMM| CC CPFOAS LOE ZHU | Яezzens} 19:17, 13 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch - As Wan-Yao, but I don't care about the exception... and... take it finny!!! -- 
  •  Nevin McAvoy 
  •  (talk) 
  19:24, 13 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch - I like J3D, and he's come a long way since he first started out. He's active, creative, and in cases which don't involve a certain zerging cheat he seems fair-minded and reasonable. I think he'd continue to play a useful role in the UD community, and that he'd be smart enough not to use sysopship to pursue previous vendettas. He also doesn't take himself too seriously, which is a definite plus. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 19:34, 13 July 2008 (BST)
• Against - As Rosslessness and Wan. _■^■ 10:39, July 13, 2008 (UTC)
• Abstain I've actually never had any interactions with J3D... Good or bad... I think a little more time in would be good. Conndraka^{mod TTBA CFT} 19:48, 13 July 2008 (BST)
• Abstain I am abstaining out of respect for his contributions, but voting against this guy over his antics is hypocritical for those of us who voted for AHLG, who was one for antics himself. --User:Axe27/Sig 20:09, 13 July 2008 (BST)
• Against This request seems to have been made by a sock puppet alt of another user. If J3d seriously wants to be a sysop then I am sure he would put in for it and probably have convincing arguments supporting him. Until he posts such points I'm voting against.--– Nubis ^NWO 20:27, 13 July 2008 (BST)

so, now that the sock puppet comment is redundant, and now that he has accepted the nomination, and now that he has provided many statements, are you going to update this?--CyberRead240 16:34, 15 July 2008 (BST)

convincing arguments supporting him - Probably not.--– Nubis ^NWO 01:32, 17 July 2008 (BST)

• Vouch As Viktor Suvorov, and because of his wiki contributions for the betterment of the game on behalf of all fair players. finis needs to be finished. --Violet Begonia _{Dean MCM MOB} 21:16, 13 July 2008 (BST)
• Against Hmm, active vandal... check, continuous disruptive behavior... check, retard... check. 'Nuff said.--Luke Skywalker 21:38, 13 July 2008 (BST)
  • Kind of rich coming from a zerging billy-no-mates isn't it? -- Cheese 21:39, 13 July 2008 (BST)
• Against - And I'm working on the assumption that he wouldn't accept it anyway.--Karek^maps?! 00:50, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• Abstain - A sysop cannot participate in any vandalisms or he is in a huge risk of becoming demoted. Unless he can prove otherwise, J3D should not be promoted. --Arcology 01:07, 14 July 2008 (BST)

  One, Two, Three,Four, Five and plenty more if you'd care to look.--Nallan (Talk) 02:14, 14 July 2008 (BST)

  He also just happens to be there. Like I said, he needs to prove himself. --Arcology 02:33, 14 July 2008 (BST)

  If you look at the case against me you'll see just how ridiculous it was. They twisted every rule they could to get me, even dear old vantar, whos sole justification for ruling vandalism was because it was allegedly "bad faith" (Based on assuming it of course, since in a very long IRC chat there was nothing he said that supported it), and when he finally did back down, he refused to reverse his ruling. Zar ruled against me to earn points to change the system, which he never did (More IRC stuff). Rather retarded all up. That said, i did have three cases against me back in November 05. They are all so ancient now so as to not warrant a mention. --The Grimch ^{U! E!} 03:00, 14 July 2008 (BST)

  You've missed my point, Arcology. Yes he is there - I wasn't disputing that - but the fact is half the admin team is there also so your initial comment doesn't really hold water.--Nallan (Talk) 11:13, 15 July 2008 (BST)

I do not think you are reading this at all Arcology. Did you even click on the links Nick provided? It seems as if you have mistaken them as edits of Jeds.--CyberRead240 16:34, 15 July 2008 (BST)

• Vouch - I like J3D and I have been there to witness his contributions to the wiki, which are more administrative that most. He contributes well to those parts of the wiki that only prove that he could be a good sysop for everyone :). For example, I quite often see him displaying influence and participating in parts of the wiki including arbitrations, vandal bannings, and deletions, the former being something he has offered his time and effort into quite alot in the past. Perhaps becoming a sysop would extend his good-willed influence in these fields? I would also hate to see someones entire possibility at sysop ruined because he is constantly plagued by bugs like Finis. DanceDanceRevolution 01:21, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• Against - Has certain qualities that would make him a good sysops, and is a decent guy... but there are so many exceptions, he needs to clean up his act... Not to mention that he doesn't need a sysops button to continue his good work...--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 01:25, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch - Would excel in giving the little guy a chance. Something sorely needed around here. Power always cleans up a guys act...i mean it worked with Hitler right???--GomerPyle41 02:15, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• Against Abstain- I wouldn't consider those "...in Malton" pages that contributive...They may be funny, but they're definitely not contributive. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 02:41, 14 July 2008 (BST)

  Sorry, while I do respect the opinions of others, define contributive? It sure as hell enhanced my wiki experience..--CyberRead240 07:03, 14 July 2008 (BST)

  ALiM and EliM may not be your cup of tea, but that's not relevant. It has contributed something to the wiki. Meanwhile, J3D is active in Administration pages and in Arbitration. In spite of the fact that he likes to be a bit of a shit disturber -- thus the vandalism warnings -- he actually does more than many people who are sysops, or whom you'd probably consider "serious" candidates. Don't misrepresent the facts. Because fact is J3D actually has the credentials... It's just that... damn ANARCHIST streak... ;P --WanYao 07:58, 14 July 2008 (BST)

  To me, just being on the Administration pages (And don't say I missed Arby's because that is one of the Admin pages...) aren't enough. He should expand to cycling the suggestions and archiving the suburb pages. Then we can start talking. Til' than, my opinion has been changed to Abstain. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:20, 14 July 2008 (BST)

  Yeah i don't have a whole lot to do with suggestions aside from the occasional voting and talk page discussion. Suburb news archiving is something i do as required in the suburbs i am involved in and on pages i visit and notice they need it, although i'm not exactly sure how it relates to being a sysop...--xoxo 09:12, 17 July 2008 (BST)

  It's doesn't. It's just contributive. It might increase your chance of becoming a sysops. I might also suggest some more Welcome Newbie templates... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 04:00, 18 July 2008 (BST)

  Heh. i used to be a fan of the wn templates but the whole finis association has turned me right off them :P --xoxo 04:11, 18 July 2008 (BST)

• Against - Naw. --brb, church ^{DORIS CGR U!} 04:06, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch as Cyberbob, cept more cute, like, Nawww.--CyberRead240 07:03, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• vouch Going to vouch in the assumption that responsibility might do him good and the knowledge that Grim and others will crush him if he fucks things up ;) --Honestmistake 08:24, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• Against - Repeated vandalism with no sign of learning what's appropriate and what's not. --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 12:05, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch - He's incredibly annoying and does things without thinking sometimes. However, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's put a lot of work in and is generally very helpful. I would have no problems with him being promoted. We need a bit more variety in the sysop team. -- Cheese 12:09, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch - Good contributor, dislikes finis, VIP at Maccas, what else do u want in a sysop? --Shakey ^BBK 13:17, 14 July 2008 (BST)
• Against - From what I have seen he has just caused a lot of trouble. LemonHead7t7 *̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡|͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|]]| ̡̡̡ ̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡*̡͌l̡* ^{Talk/PDA/Red Rum/MOB} 01:34, 15 July 2008 (BST)
• Abstain - Don't really know him too well, except for the finis witch hunt. -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 08:53, 15 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch --_LH779 10:46, 15 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch - J3D has demonstrated real interest in wiki politics and procedure, participating in numerous policy discussions and administration issues over his 17 months in the UD wiki community. And I've been right there to witness it since the start. Jed's addition to the admin team would provide a fresh new perspective and authority in regards to administration decisions, and provide the wiki with another hard working and dedicated sysop, who would be objective, fair, and helpful. Plus, he can barely leave recent changes to piss, so why not put him to good use serving deletion requests or processing vandals? Have yourselves a holiday! Anyway... I know that Grims and Boxy (and Kevan?) are fully aware of Jed's credentials and no doubt already have their minds made up as to what the outcome of this promotion bid will be, so maybe instead of trying to convince them I'll just sit back and see how this turns out...--Nallan (Talk) 11:34, 15 July 2008 (BST)
• Against too soon.----Sexualharrison 18:03, 15 July 2008 (BST)
  • 17 months and 2642 edits, define 'soon'. and 'too'.--xoxo 02:38, 16 July 2008 (BST)
    • I don't have to explain anything to you..so how about just NO. happy?----Sexualharrison 04:42, 17 July 2008 (BST)
      • what a pathetic response! Jed was asking for you to tell him what he could do to improve...and you give this? pathetic!--CyberRead240 09:11, 17 July 2008 (BST)
        • what are you his mother? take his dick outta your mouth and mind your own biz. as aways there are million good reasons listed why he should not be promoted. I agree with them. but by far girm's are the best. go figure?----Sexualharrison 20:18, 30 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch - Jokes around a bit, but at the same time has done good work for the wiki. --Kikashie ^{Read the Dispatch!} 05:59, 16 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch Great, great guy. When I joined the wiki, I remember thinking "he should be sysop." Ioncannon11 23:32, 17 July 2008 (BST)
• Against - While he does have a reasonable sense of humour that I'm sure many people can enjoy (Including myself), there seem to be certain aspects of his personality which I consider are less than desirable for someone in a sysop position. - Jedaz - 08:13/20/07/2008
• Abstain - He hasn't been around long enough, that was a joke. But I hear he has done some questionable things. --Texasxdoom 08:30, 22 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch - This user has shown quantifiable improvements to the wiki and community. He is familiar with the precedents and form of A/VB which will reduce the amount of fuck-ups should he be promoted. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 17:31, 22 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch, he is an ok guy. He can do a good job, but has that streak of vandalism. But if he can do the job and try to cut down on vandalism he should be fine as a sysop. - User:Whitehouse 09:28, 23 July 2008 (BST)
• Vouch - There hasn't been a problem or question I've had on the wiki that he hasn't been able to answer. He knows what he's doing, and frankly, he's fabulous. --Fifth Element 18:19, 23 July 2008 (BST)

  blushes - no you're fabulous :P --xoxo 06:39, 24 July 2008 (BST)

• Vouch - Thought a long time about this one. A little concerned about him possibly stirring up trouble, and also perhaps going a bit overboard promoting ALiM, 2cool, etc., but he seems fairly helpful to new users and I like his judgment on A/VB and arbitration stuff. Strikes me as someone who will stand up for the little guy. I think you would do a good job, so don't let us down J3D. --Pdeq^Talk* 06:53, 24 July 2008 (BST)
• You don't have to be a sysop to address loopholes in the A/VB system or get involved in creating wiki policy. In fact it is preferable to have been active in trying to fix problems before becoming a sysop... it gives people an idea of your motivations and likely reactions when given the keys to the banhammer cabin3t.
  BTW, which of your mates do you think you'll have to ban first if promoted :P -- boxy ^{talk • i} 13:10 26 July 2008 (BST)

He has already decided on me, I just know it...:P--CyberRead240 13:12, 26 July 2008 (BST)

valid point with the policy stuff but its only since the goons came to the wiki en mass that the problems with the wiki (including those that didn't related to them) became obvious to me, also in the next 4 months i'm undertaking the most important exams of my life thus far so yeah, policy etc would become apparent after november 7. Regarding the ban hammer, i'm pretty sure most people who are involved in the a/vb process are familiar with my views as i often plaster my opinion on the a/vb page (from where it is relocated to the talk page) and 1st friend banned will probably be gomerpyle, he's taken to vandalism in recent weeks...--xoxo 08:19, 27 July 2008 (BST)

Well, i tried twice to get boxy to discuss this issue, but it appears he doesnt have either the time or inclination to discuss it with his fellow crat. As such, im going to have to take action again, unilaterally. Though before i do, i shall explain that this is more a fault of the system, rather than anything else.

As you probably well know, we have only two proper crats. Kevan is a third, but he has stated he has little to no interest in proceedings on this page. Unfortunately, in any system where we have two people with a casting vote in the matter, it means that they must both be in agreement over a promotion, lest one just promote his buddies to positions of power, and they could simply overrule each other and cause a huge mess. In places where there are disgreements between two parties, the best course of action is to change nothing. Thus, in these cases, a single against "vote" from one of the paired applicable crats is sufficient to veto the promotions process on any bid. This would be easily fixed by appointing a third crat, as i have suggested and supported in the past (And indeed, do still support). I do not know what Boxys opinion on this bid and issue will be, but i do know mine.

So, now onto the meat of this. Application Unsuccessful due to a number of reasons, which i shall again take the time to explain.
J3D has stated his goals. What he hopes to acheive and where he would act. Specifically A/VB "reform" and ruling on A/VB.
J3D is an average user. However he has, especially in the last three-four months, become an extremely active shit disturber on A/VB. Blatantly ignoring the page guidelines, posting his comments on the main page repeatedly, often in openly antagonistic and disruptive manners that shows he has little to no respect for guidelines. A more blatant example is provided below:

J3D said:

This comment is relevant to this vandalism report. kekekekeke--J3DSR! 14:46, 21 June 2008 (BST)

(Source, from last month)
On top of this, he has repeatedly engaged in acts of vandalism against another member of this community. The fact that said member of this community is a proven zerger is entirely immaterial. The rules, and the protections they afford to the users of this wiki, must apply to everyone or they are entirely without meaning. This is a very important concept, and one J3D does not appear to have grasped. It merely goes to demonstrate further that he has little respect for the guidelines, which he must adhere to and, most importantly, uphold as a member of the sysop team.

Also, two months ago he made the rather foolish assumption that poor form is equal to bad faith Source. Another source to cast doubt on his judgement is this incident from last month Link.

As for "reforming" A/VB, there is no need to be a sysop to do that. All one needs to do is write up a policy regarding it, and hope like hell it will pass. And in response to those who feel that promoting him would get him to clean up his act: It would be far better for him to clean up his act beforehand. If he can clean up his act, he should do it now, instead of following his present pattern of escalating disruption.

Given all these glaringly obvious, and more importantly recent events in his history, i cannot in good conscience permit him to be promoted at this time. --The Grimch ^{U! E!} 14:41, 27 July 2008 (BST)

conscience*--CyberRead240 14:48, 27 July 2008 (BST)

Fixed, you fucking nitpick. --The Grimch ^{U! E!} 14:53, 27 July 2008 (BST)

Hahahaha, I had to do it, I was looking for a way to argue your decision. It was bullet proof, so I had to resort to something....Good, thoroughly explained decision, btw.--CyberRead240 14:56, 27 July 2008 (BST)