User:Aichon/Archive 2010: Difference between revisions

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<center>'''This is an archive. Don't post here.'''</center><br />
<center>'''This is an archive. Don't post here.'''</center><br />
If you have anything you'd like to add to one of these conversations, then go to my {{User:Aichon/snazzylink|User talk: Aichon|talk page}}, reference the relevant conversation from here, and post your comments there. This page should not be edited by others. These are all messages I've filed away. They shouldn't be changed or added to, since the contexts of the situations have been lost, forgotten, or could simply be remembered differently by the involved parties. I'd prefer to start any of these conversations fresh, if they must come up again.
If you have anything you'd like to add to one of these conversations, then go to my {{../snazzylink|User talk: Aichon|talk page}}, reference the relevant conversation from here, and post your comments there. This page should not be edited by others. These are all messages I've filed away. They shouldn't be changed or added to, since the contexts of the situations have been lost, forgotten, or could simply be remembered differently by the involved parties. I'd prefer to start any of these conversations fresh, if they must come up again.
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== UD Better Name Colorer ==
== UD Better Name Colorer ==
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==From [[User:Aichon/Other/RSoM|RSoM]]==
==From [[User:Aichon/RSoM|RSoM]]==
Can't say I like it either. {{User:VI/S}} 03:43, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Can't say I like it either. {{User:VI/S}} 03:43, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
:Just now saw this over there. Yeah...definitely not a fan of the new color scheme, so this seemed like the easiest approach. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:30, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Just now saw this over there. Yeah...definitely not a fan of the new color scheme, so this seemed like the easiest approach. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:30, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
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== CHUD ==
 
Hi Aichon! I've found that using last version of UD Better HP Colorizer CHUD doesn't show up and Firefox gives a "some script it's taking too long to respond" warning. I'm sorry I am always the bearer of bad news. Regards. --[[User:Telepibe|telepibe]] 22:59, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
<span style="font-size: 4em;">Space reserved for CHUD</span>
:Somehow I missed this comment in all of the hubbub a few days ago. Anyway, I'm glad someone's letting me know about these issues, so it's not bad news at all. I'm just sorry I haven't gotten around to responding to them in a timely manner. With chud, is it doing it in every building, or just some (particularly in ones with lots of people)? I know chud needs some work, since my version doesn't seem to function at all in Chrome...I'll have to go through and give it a hard look at some point, since it seems to have quite a few issues holding it up. Sorry about these bugs. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:04, 29 March 2010 (BST)
 
::You don't have to be sorry at all. I have last version of CHUD (2009-12-08) and UD Better HP Colorizer too (1.1.1). Yes, as far as I noticed, it does it in every building (inside or outside) whether there are many people or few. What's true is that if there's a lot of people the page loads terribly slow and sometimes Firefox gave me the warning I told you before (I've pretty much get rid of that warning sending UD Profile Links to the bottom of script's list, no idea why though). Hope that helps.--[[User:Telepibe|telepibe]] 16:37, 30 March 2010 (BST)
 




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==Two Pence==
==Two Pence==
{{User:Aichon/tinynote|1=Pulled from the [[User talk:Aichon/Threat Suburbs]] {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:53, 10 April 2010 (BST)}}
{{../tinynote|1=Pulled from the [[User talk:Aichon/Threat Suburbs]] {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:53, 10 April 2010 (BST)}}
Threat5 seems too brown to fit the gradation. It could just be me though. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 04:35, 10 April 2010 (BST)
Threat5 seems too brown to fit the gradation. It could just be me though. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 04:35, 10 April 2010 (BST)
:Yeah, it kinda looked that way to me as well, but it was just a weird illusion thing. At the time, I had run the math, and those colors were perfectly gradated. Anyway, new colors now. I incorporated some golds, as per your idea, and I really think it helped. Not sure if it's enough, but it's a start. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:53, 10 April 2010 (BST)
:Yeah, it kinda looked that way to me as well, but it was just a weird illusion thing. At the time, I had run the math, and those colors were perfectly gradated. Anyway, new colors now. I incorporated some golds, as per your idea, and I really think it helped. Not sure if it's enough, but it's a start. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:53, 10 April 2010 (BST)
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==Style up.==
 
Your pages are sexy. Im looking at revamping the [[zombie skills]] page, converting it into a hub with each page having its own page. [[User:Rosslessness/Random Rambling/Sandbox4|Here's an example]], any thoughts on styling it up? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 14:51, 16 April 2010 (BST)
<span style="font-size: 4em;">Space reserved for Style Up</span>
:Heh, well, style isn't something that comes naturally for me. I spent a few months figuring out what my pages should look like, and threw out several designs that initially seemed promising. I can recognize decent design usually, but I'm not good at producing it. Anyway, I'm responding now to let you know I'm not ignoring you, but that I want to take a bit more to think over it. Any timeline you have on this? I have one idea regarding displaying the entire hierarchy at the top of each page, but it was taking longer to make than I expected. Aside from that idea, I don't have anything new at the moment. I'd change the shade of green though, since it glares a bit. Something a bit muted would work better, I think (#cec or #aca are decent, though you could go darker to #8a8 or the like if you want). I'll look at it again and think over it a bit more later. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:24, 17 April 2010 (BST)
 
::Two pence here. I agree on the darker green, but I'm thinking instead of displaying the whole skill hierarchy, just the particular tree in question (Memories tree, Vigor tree, etc) would be all that is needed. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 13:39, 17 April 2010 (BST)
 
:::I was going to display the tree horizontally. Or rather, display each main branch of the tree under its own column. It'd be using the same amount of vertical space as your idea, but it'd fill out the horizontal better, give better utility, and would also give them a clearer idea of where they were in the hierarchy. Anyway, it's almost 8am here...bed time! {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 13:44, 17 April 2010 (BST)
::::As i started the project about a year ago, there's no hurry. But thanks. Nice Idea about the tree. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 14:34, 17 April 2010 (BST)
:::::Looking good. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 10:37, 29 April 2010 (BST)




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== UDMap ==
 
Hey, Aichon, I made another super easy change to one of your scripts, if you're interested. All I did was replace the redrum map links with links to the DSS map. I'm not sure what the best external map is, but at least DSS works. So, [http://cid-fe5f8a8e9e0ac534.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/UDMap.zip here's the script.] - [[User:Cam moo|Cam moo]] 19:00, 21 April 2010 (BST)
<span style="font-size: 4em;">Space reserved for UDMap</span>
:Huh...coulda sworn I had updated that one already, but you're absolutely right, I hadn't. Thanks a lot! I'll update it later today since I'm heading out in just a sec here. And yep, I was planning to switch all of my scripts to use the DSS map soon, since I prefer it to the aypok map that some of them are linking to at the moment. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:11, 21 April 2010 (BST)
 
::Actually, shoot, I just realized that I messed that up. The world map links to DSS, but the suburb map links to aypok. I have no idea how I didn't notice that, but [http://cid-fe5f8a8e9e0ac534.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/UDMap.aypok.zip this one] links to aypok on both of them. The DSS map is nicer, so maybe the first one is better, but I don't know how to have the suburb map link to DSS, since the urls use a different format than the redrum/aypok maps do. Sorry about that! This is why I don't write scripts. - [[User:Cam moo|Cam moo]] 19:29, 21 April 2010 (BST)
 
:::Heh, well, many thanks. I'll take a look at things once I get a chance and see what I can come up with (helping to operate a university lecture at the moment, so unable to work on scripts right now). Regardless of what does or doesn't work, pointing out the problem in the first place is massively helpful, since I don't personally use those links too often (I usually use the similar links in my GPS script). {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:08, 21 April 2010 (BST)




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== Socmember ==
 
[[Template:Socmember]] - Just wondering, is there a reason why it's subst and not just a normal usage? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 05:45, 10 June 2010 (BST)
 
:Honestly? I think I was tired and wanted the code on the page it's used on ([[Soldiers of Crossman/Members]]) to be consistent with the existing entries, but didn't even consider the possibility of simply replacing the old entries with the template since it just didn't occur to me at the time. I'm planning on redoing the SoC's entire wiki space within the next few weeks here though, so I'll tend to that too when I'm handling everything else. I may just talk to the rest of leadership about pulling down the list entirely, since I'd rather not give PKers a target list. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 12:35, 11 June 2010 (BST)
<span style="font-size: 4em;">Space reserved for Socmember</span>
 
 
 




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:::::::::::Ah, yeah, none of these work in IE, I believe, since IE is just stupid when it comes to positioning and the box model. That's a known issue, and there's nothing we can really do about it (I'm hopeful IE9 will handle the issue once and for all, since the others browsers have had it right for between 5-10 years already in most cases). I had thought you had switched over to Firefox awhile back, hence why I was concerned. Anyway, what Mis can do to mitigate the issue is set up redirects from the images (if he hasn't already...I didn't check), which will do the trick. It's what Iscariot used to do, and it works fine as a fallback option for IE users. You won't get the fancy tooltips, nor will it show the correct link on mouseover, but it'll work, at least. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:20, 8 July 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::Ah, yeah, none of these work in IE, I believe, since IE is just stupid when it comes to positioning and the box model. That's a known issue, and there's nothing we can really do about it (I'm hopeful IE9 will handle the issue once and for all, since the others browsers have had it right for between 5-10 years already in most cases). I had thought you had switched over to Firefox awhile back, hence why I was concerned. Anyway, what Mis can do to mitigate the issue is set up redirects from the images (if he hasn't already...I didn't check), which will do the trick. It's what Iscariot used to do, and it works fine as a fallback option for IE users. You won't get the fancy tooltips, nor will it show the correct link on mouseover, but it'll work, at least. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:20, 8 July 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::You're thinking of safari. I briefly used it a couple of months ago, but this computer doesn't have it, and I'm more used to IE anyway.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature‎}} 17:49, 8 July 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::You're thinking of safari. I briefly used it a couple of months ago, but this computer doesn't have it, and I'm more used to IE anyway.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature‎}} 17:49, 8 July 2010 (BST)
== DAMN YOU!!! ==
You deserve the promotion... why not stay in it? It's yours for the taking... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 21:03, 11 July 2010 (BST)
:Even ''if'' I did "deserve" it (and that's very questionable, at best), that doesn't mean I actually ''want'' it. Anyway, I gave my reasons for withdrawing. They're pretty self-explanatory. I don't have any desire to have the position as a status symbol, nor do I currently want to have the responsibility of choosing who does and doesn't become a sysop. A quick look through some of the more controversial A/PM bids should clue you in why I don't want to deal with it. Becoming a sysop gave me access to buttons that help me do some work, so I was willing to accept that nomination, but being a 'crat only lets me do one more thing, and it's not something I'm interested in doing. I'm definitely being selfish about it, but that's my prerogative. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:29, 11 July 2010 (BST)
::Guess I didn't realize there was so little difference between the two jobs... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 21:34, 11 July 2010 (BST)
:::The only added 'perk' of the position of crat is the ability to change usergroup rights. Given that this wiki only has three usergroups (User, System Operator, Bureaucrat), it's not a major task. The only reason there's even more than one is to stop someone monopolising promotions, not to spread out a workload. If we had more usergoups (compare, say, Wikia's use of Rollback Rights, Autoconfirmed, etc), then it might be more of a job, but if you look through the A/PM archives you'll see that the crats don't actually have much more to do on a day to day basis. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:37, 11 July 2010 (BST)
== Backloggery ==
Finally got off my arse and registered over there. Aerthos is the name, if you look for me. Only put a few games in right now, but will likely update with the entire collection after I get moved into my new place in a week. --{{User:Maverick Farrant/sig}} 23:40, 11 July 2010 (BST)
== A/VD help ==
Yo, that sounds like a good idea, I'll do the same. --{{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 09:04, 13 July 2010 (BST)
:I've actually been doing it for awhile now, but I apparently missed a few folks. Maybe you can help though...I almost have SA's done, but I can't find his warning from November 2009... {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 09:08, 13 July 2010 (BST)
::Nevermind, found it. Turns out it wasn't marked as a Misconduct, but that's what it was. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 09:28, 13 July 2010 (BST)
==UD Holiday Colorizer==
I have decided to go on an endless crusade to locate and destroy the one remaining Christmas tree. As such, I don't want to not notice when I pass it. When you get back, could you make a Greasemonkey script that highlights holiday stuff? Like the UD Building State Colorizer does? Plez? --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 07:03, 15 July 2010 (BST)
:Do you use UD Building State Colorizer, by chance? If so, making it do that is such a simple addition (just one line) that I could tell you how to do it yourself. If not, then I could make a special version for you that just has that functionality, since I'd just chop out a lot of lines of text from UDBSC, basically, and replace them all with just one line. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 07:29, 15 July 2010 (BST)
::In fact, just in case you do feel comfortable with it, here's the line of code you'd need to add (feel free to change the color to whatever you like):
{ str: 'Christmas tree', colour: '#e53', bold: true, underline: true },
::You'll find a block of code with a lot of lines that resemble this one (they'll start with that <code>str:</code> stuff). Just paste it in there anywhere. Doesn't matter, so long as it's after the <code>var highlights = [</code> line and before the <code>];</code> line at the end of that block of similar-looking lines. If you need a custom script just for this use, let me know and I'll fix you up, since it's simply a matter of removing those lines and replacing them with the one I just gave you. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 07:39, 15 July 2010 (BST)
:::That's surprisingly easy, and quite helpful. Thanx! --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 23:54, 15 July 2010 (BST)
:Haha you have no chance. Every time the last one gets destroyed an inactive logs in and places a new one >=D --{{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 08:03, 15 July 2010 (BST)
::That reminds me, I still have a pumpkin left over from Halloween. {{:User:Red Hawk One/sig}} 08:50, 15 July 2010 (BST)
::I guess that would just give me something to do afterwards. --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 23:54, 15 July 2010 (BST)
== policy discussion ==
DDR made a mistake when writing the policy - he included [[Template:Inactive]] (which is a template for inactive sysops,) instead of [[Template:InactiveGroup]] (which is a template for inactive groups.) To keep within the rules, if/when he changes the link, he'll need permission of all voters. So I decided I would seek that now.
Basically, are you alright with the link being changed? {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 09:16, 16 July 2010 (BST)
:Yep. I had figured it was an obvious mistake (once you pointed it out). I'm actually not entirely convinced he needs our permission since it's only an example, isn't part of what's getting changed, and is framed with "may", though it's always better to be safe than sorry. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 09:35, 16 July 2010 (BST)
== web counter in private and group page ==
Hello, i want put into my and my group's pages a counter which will indicated how many people have seen it. Can i do it? {{unsigned|Hshhhhh}}
:Yes. Look at the bottom of said page. --{{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 09:29, 19 July 2010 (BST)
:The Galbraith Hills Defense Union page has been accessed 3,500+ times. That's not terrible, but it's not great either. You need to get you name out. --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 16:23, 19 July 2010 (BST)
::Looks like the others have already answered the question. If you're looking to add an additional counter however, the answer is no, it is not possible. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:26, 19 July 2010 (BST)
==demo3==
yo, having the code to be copied and pasted there is looking for trouble. we know some of the retards that come through DS, we'll just have to spend scores of time fixing it when they get said text that's meant to be copied and just replace it with their own code. the rest of what you've done looks bangin, but perhaps the code to be copied should appear below that sexy intro, not hidden as code. --{{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 01:53, 20 July 2010 (BST)
:Yeah, I was thinking about it still. I really wanted to clean up the top, since there is WAY too much unnecessary text there in the current DS, but I think you're right in that I may have gone too far for what is actually practical. I'm still just toying around with it in my spare time though, and by no means is it anywhere close to completion yet. I'm thinking I'll scrap the navigation template as it is and work it into a fancy header that will be uniform across the Suggestions pages (which I also intend to redesign), will junk the list of current suggestions from the bottom of the page and work them into said header, and will figure out a better place to put that dang TOC, since it just looks off where it is. Walls of text for page intros are bad and need to go. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:36, 20 July 2010 (BST)
::Fair. I really like the simplistic and stylish method of giving the information, it helps and fixes all that clutter, you're doing a fantastic job so far. --{{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 14:48, 20 July 2010 (BST)
==Switch statements for signatures==
While I'm here, I'd like a little assistance or a lesson, I once had a status update on my signature that looked somewhat like what is shown [[User:DanceDanceRevolution/status|here]]. As you can see, it was a simple code where I'd just implement a variable which linked directly to a template call like [[User:DanceDanceRevolution/online]] or [[User:DanceDanceRevolution/offline]].
I want to do this again but without spamming up my namespace with templates. Would there be a way to have all of the statuses on one page in one code and have the specific ones only appear if I use the same variables eg "online" "offline" "idle" etc? I've had a look at if and switch templates and it's a whole new ballpark for me that I've never explored till now, any quick tips? --{{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 16:41, 20 July 2010 (BST)
:So, to make sure I'm clear on this, you have a single page in your namespace which will have the keyword on it, and that word is the variable you are using to reflect your status? And then, you want to include that page in a switch statement which will then select from among various signatures based on that status word? If so, then yes, it should be possible, though I'm not sure that I would advise it.
:In terms of why I'd advise against it, as you know, templates on pages break when the page gets too large. Since you'd effectively be having the code for, say, 6-10 signatures in a single template call, that would mean that even if you're only using one of them at a time, you'd still be having all of that other unused code counting against the size of the page (this is a bit of an oversimplification of the problem, but it gets the gist across; if you want more details, let me know), which would make the pages you post on grow much more quickly than they would otherwise. If you kept the sigs small, it wouldn't be as big of an issue, but making them large would probably become problematic.
:If you want to go ahead with it, the code is relatively straightforward, I think. It'd be along these lines:
<pre>{{switch
|{{User:DanceDanceRevolution/status}}
|case: ooo=CODE_FOR_OUT_OF_ORDER_SIG_HERE
|case: online=CODE_FOR_ONLINE_SIG_HERE
|...
|default=CODE_FOR_PLAIN_SIG_HERE
}}</pre>
:Assuming that your User:DanceDanceRevolution/status page had the keyword on it, then that's the sort of thing you'd use to do it. And you'd obviously fill in some more signatures in that "..." area. You can see an example of me using a switch statement to do a countdown in my signature [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Aichon/Signature&action=edit&oldid=1717885 here] (ignore the messy switch statement at the end, since it was hackish), but that's quite a bit simpler than what you're trying to do. Anyway, let me know if that answers your questions or if I lost you on a point somewhere. I'll be happy to clarify as I can if you have any further questions. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:43, 20 July 2010 (BST)
::You lost me somewhere...Yea, I know you were talking to DDR, but this conversation is worth my attention too since DDR did set up those status pages for myself... --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 01:15, 21 July 2010 (BST)
:::Where'd I lose you? Also, as I said, I wouldn't recommend this method anyway. I think you guys were really doing it the best way before. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:21, 21 July 2010 (BST)
::::Yeah, fair enough. Thanks for the help. --{{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 07:31, 23 July 2010 (BST)
==must thanked and praised you==
for the impressive shadow coloring for text in your signature. so, uh can i use it for my signature? :P :P :P --{{User:Evan_Arnoldi/sig}} 16:35, 20 July 2010 (BST)
:It looks like you've already figured out how to use it, and yep, I definitely think it's fine to borrow stuff from other people's code around here. :P You don't have to worry about crediting me for it either, since I actually borrowed the idea from Chief Seagull. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:15, 20 July 2010 (BST)
::its fine to borrow ppl codes? holy- brb stealing other ppl sig code :P still, thanks anyway --{{User:Evan_Arnoldi/sig}} 04:20, 21 July 2010 (BST)
:::Yep, you're welcome to borrow code from anyone around here, though, with sigs, it's best to make sure you don't make yours look like someone else's, since the sigs are supposed to be how we identify people quickly. Other than that though, it's mostly fair game. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:38, 21 July 2010 (BST)
==SoC==
That stuff you're doing in sandbox looks pretty kewl, particularly demo page 13.  Did you ever consider using a stealth external link for the forum?  Like this: <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://soc.aichon.com/forum/ '''<span style="color: #343;">Forum</span>''']</span>. If you go through the trouble of changing the coloring of your hyperlinks and everything it just looks sleek imo.  Just my two cents.  ;)--{{User:Giles Sednik/sig}} 09:45, 21 July 2010 (BST)
:Glad to see you like the blank page best. >_<
:Anyway, I actually had considered it, and was still debating whether to use it or not. My reasoning was that a normal user would want to find the forum link quickly and easily, and having the icon next to it makes it immediately identifiable, since that ''is'' the purpose of the icon. Plus, having it look virtually identical to the other links means that people might just click on it thinking it'll take them to another wiki page and would be very surprised when it takes them off-site suddenly, which is good sometimes, but not other times. That said, clearly it detracts from the overall appearance of the page. I'm still on the fence. Maybe I can figure out some better way to make the link unique without the icon, but that'll be a challenge for another day, since I was just wrapping up for the night. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 09:50, 21 July 2010 (BST)
::Create an image that's a copy of the icon using the same colour as your text, insert it beside the link as an image, and that way it'll keep the familiar off-site visual cue, but blend in with the page better. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 05:03, 23 July 2010 (BST)
:::Might give that a shot. It's a good idea, though in the meantime, since I'm basing the design entirely around our forum design, I went ahead and incorporated a highlight color from the forums. Not sure I like it though. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:14, 23 July 2010 (BST)
::::I ended up doing that, Mis. Great suggestion. Of course, I had to make a new version of the template that we use for allowing images to be links, so the template I had made previously only handled wiki links, not external links. It was worth it though since it came out looking much better, I think. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 12:08, 27 July 2010 (BST)
==The shadow tricks don't work anymore==
the shadow effect text not appearing anymore on my signature and your signature. it just my computer, or the wiki disable the code? if it just my computer, please give me the troubleshooting so that the shadow on text do appear again. Crap, even the font appear as times new romans, i have set to wide latin and others... what the hell is going on?--{{User:Evan_Arnoldi/sig}} 10:33, 21 July 2010 (BST)
:Looks like it's working fine to me for both of our signatures, so any issues must be on your end. If you've switched to using a different computer or Internet Explorer, that's probably the cause of the problem (you should use Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or anything else besides IE, pretty much), and it's worth pointing out that the shadow effect I use is relatively subtle, so merely viewing your monitor at different angles can make a big difference in how it appears. Beyond that...well, see paragraph two of [[User:Aichon#Background|this section]]. Sorry, but I don't troubleshoot computers. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 10:41, 21 July 2010 (BST)
::okay thanks, the problem are now solved.... some idiot turned off the javascript and ended with some script failure opening another site *facepalm* thank you for your time though :D--{{User:Evan_Arnoldi/sig}} 10:49, 21 July 2010 (BST)
==The rebirth of DARIS==
I was wondering if you could help with this. --[[User:Spoook|Spoook]] 04:55, 23 July 2010 (BST)
:Gonna have to be a lot more specific. DARIS was WAY before my time, so I don't know much about it, and I'm not sure what sort of help you're looking for. Plus, I have a pretty full plate at the moment. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:15, 23 July 2010 (BST)
::Oh woo, another one. What's that, the fifth one now? Some people need to know when to let something die. --{{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 07:03, 23 July 2010 (BST)
:::Its something to do, before the game gets shut down.--[[User:Spoook|Spoook]] 23:17, 24 July 2010 (BST)
==Kevan's e-mail==
Thank you very much for finding Kevan's email addy for me, have mailed him just now. Hope to see you ingame, unless you're a zombie, then I hope never to see you. --[[User:Axemaniac johnson|Axemaniac johnson]] 15:29, 25 July 2010 (BST)
:I have characters of pretty much every persuasion. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:01, 26 July 2010 (BST)
==Question==
I'd be interested in spending the time to clean up [[Special:Wantedpages]],... and remove several red links from the wiki. Most of the wanted pages only have one incoming link, and from what I've been told,.... only exist via A/D, and A/SD. That said, I know editing other peoples posts is a bit of a no-no, and could cause unnecessary trouble, and drama. Any suggestions? -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 04:24, 26 July 2010 (BST)
:You'd have a hard time editing the A/D and A/SD archives since they should all be protected. Anyway, I'd suggest talking to Ross about it. Fixing red links has been a pet <s>peeve</s> project of his. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:27, 26 July 2010 (BST)
::Deal... thanks... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 04:41, 26 July 2010 (BST)
:::It's been tried. It isn't going to happen. The various deletion archives need preserved, and they're supplying the bulk of the wanted pages. By the way you're directly responsible for the most-used redlink on the wiki. {{Tongue}} {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 06:00, 26 July 2010 (BST)
::::How do you figure I'm responsable for most of them? -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 06:08, 26 July 2010 (BST)
:::::I think he's referring to [[UDWiki:Administration/Speedy_Deletions/Archive/2009_11#The_following_pages.2C_and_their_talk_pages.....|this]]. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:09, 26 July 2010 (BST)
:::::Not most of them, the most-used one. Malton Inhumane Society is the redlink with the most incoming links, and you put it up for deletion. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 06:10, 26 July 2010 (BST)
::::::Oh no,... See, the pages were deleted once prior to that. I simply took note, and turned them into redirects for my group,... so that my group would be linked to even more on the wiki,... and make us more popular. Yonnua suggested I put them up for deletion, or risk being taken to A/VB. I chose deletion. -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 06:19, 26 July 2010 (BST)
:::::::And it'd all be Airborne88's fault if you hadn't.. {{Tongue}} {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 06:23, 26 July 2010 (BST)
::::::::How do you figure? It's his fault in the first place isn't it? -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 06:26, 26 July 2010 (BST)
:::::::::Can we figure out who's to blame on someone else's talk page? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:28, 26 July 2010 (BST)
::::::::::'''[[User Talk:Poodle of doom|No...]]''' -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 06:36, 26 July 2010 (BST)
== yo ==
any tips on how to make the bottom of the image on [[User:DanceDanceRevolution/sandpit/7]] cuddle up to the black div below it, so there's no red inbetween? -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 15:29, 27 July 2010 (BST)
:Well, for the life of me I can't figure out why it's doing that, but I do know a way to fix it easily. Just replace <code><nowiki>[[Image:4020head.png|850px|4020]]</nowiki></code> with <code><nowiki><div style="margin-bottom: -8px;">[[Image:4020head.png|850px|4020]]</div></nowiki></code> and you should be fine. Cool looking design, by the way, though I'd suggest having the black bars stretch all the way to the left, rather than leaving white space there. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:39, 27 July 2010 (BST)
::You godsend. Thanks for the advice too, just bumming around atm for when I make a small group for me and my buddies again. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 09:04, 28 July 2010 (BST)
== {{Grr}}<span style="color: rgb(242,242,242); color: rgba(242,242,242,0);">Grr</span> ==
--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature‎}} 23:56, 31 July 2010 (BST)
:Did I miss something? I was thinking this might be AHMH3 related, but my 7th place finish is well ahead of your 15th, so I don't see why your "grr"ing me, and the two kills I made on you didn't affect your placement in the rankings at all. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:24, 1 August 2010 (BST)
::Ohhhhh. I [http://iamscott.net/1280658417160.html see] why now. Well, don't worry, while you may have some qualms about shooting people after the Manhunt is over, I have none. >:) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 11:28, 1 August 2010 (BST)
:::If you had died, I would have gained three or so places...--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature‎}} 20:28, 1 August 2010 (BST)
::::More even. And, in retrospect, killing you again last night wasn't a good idea of mine. Even if I'm back on as a regular PKer now, it just wasn't the right thing to do, so I did want to apologize for that. It was rather rude of me. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:48, 1 August 2010 (BST)
:::::Pff, death really doesn't bother me. My main is killed every day, it really doesn't even phase me.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 20:51, 1 August 2010 (BST)
==Template Name==
I've seen the template [[User:TripleU/Sandbox5|used here]], but can't for the life of me figure out what the name of that template is. Could you help me find it so I could use it on the wiki too? -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 05:37, 1 August 2010 (BST)
:Sorry, don't recognize it. I'd suggest asking TripleU, since it ''is'' his page you're asking about. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:00, 1 August 2010 (BST)
== Re: Every Villain Is Lemons ==
Thanks for the feedback, we dig your request, but I'd recommend you wait a couple of weeks or so before jumping in as the oldies are in the process of feeding all our current new players, we have our hands full at the moment and I foresee a pretty big drag of a startup phase. Out of curiosity, do you have DSS satellite phone? -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 11:31, 1 August 2010 (BST)
:Afraid not. Doesn't work with Safari. You can shoot me an e-mail or hit me up on one of the forums I'm at though (all of the groups I'm with have forums) if you want something private. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 11:37, 1 August 2010 (BST)
::No problemo, just curious for now. Might give you a PM or an email if our group makes it through the getting-up phase :D -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 12:00, 1 August 2010 (BST)
:::You do have to admit though, it's kinda curious to have a recruitment ad up if you're recommending people don't join. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 12:10, 1 August 2010 (BST)
::::Right you are- I was going through the motions of making the group on the wiki and then you asked about joining and it was only then that I realised the group probably wasn't quite ready yet :( I think I'll take the rec add down for now :( -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 12:17, 1 August 2010 (BST)
==Bolded Links==
First off, the tradition is to bold links to the groups mainspace. Second of all, maybe it's just me, but sometimes, the links seem to run on into the sentences, and it's hard to tell if there's even a link there sometimes. Could we possibly leave it bolded? -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:08, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:If I had my druthers, we'd unbold both, but I figured I'd compromise and only unbold the one to your groupspace. I know it's tradition for you guys, but it's also not fair to other groups and events to be bolding your links and not theirs. As for blending in, that's what the bright blue text is for. We can ask someone else though. Hit someone else up for their opinion. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:14, 3 August 2010 (BST)
::My opinion is no bolding. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:17, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::Blue text,... I've got purple text.... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:23, 3 August 2010 (BST)
::::Because your browser's history remembers that you've viewed the page. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:26, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::::MMMkkkk,... I've never seen a blue link on the wiki?... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:31, 3 August 2010 (BST)
::::::Something is very wrong for you then. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:36, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::Nah! I'm just messin' with you. I never thought about it being blue... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:51, 3 August 2010 (BST)
==[[Talk:Extremely_Vengeful_and_Irksome_Laymen/Rage_in_a_Cage#Tag_Teaming|I demand]]==
that you assist me in forming a group of newbie dinosaurs.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 17:27, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:I don't get it. "Newbie dinosaurs"? I'll need more details, but I'm not keen on babysitting newbie PKers (not that I'm some hotshot), I have to say... {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:50, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::Basically, it would let us enter and bypass the group rule by padding the group with low levels, and hopefully as many adepts as I can get. :P --{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 21:53, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::Well, yes, but what's this about dinosaurs? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:58, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::Dinosaurs are fun. I needed a new alt for the group ->>> Dinosaur Group. :P But yeah, not everyone needs to be dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are just fun.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 22:00, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::::Okay, now I get it a bit more. I had no idea what you meant before. So, what do you need me to do, exactly, to help form this group? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:04, 4 August 2010 (BST)
<big><big><big><big><big>'''OPEN THE DOOR GET ON THE FLOOR<br/><br/><br/>EVERYBODY WALK THE DINOSAUR'''</big></big></big></big></big>
22:05, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::::Not much really. Since you're an experienced player, I'll bring you in as co-leader, and I'll recruit 3 newbs / other experienced people. Then we enter the EVIl manhunt as a team and win. That's the plan, basically. :P --{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 22:08, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::You can lead. I'll be the faithful second in command. You got a board or something you want to set this up at? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:34, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::Nope. Want me to set one up or should you?--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 22:39, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::Technically, you could have a group of Two... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 22:45, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::Well, better to have an army of newbs who people will feel guilty killing.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 22:47, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::I wouldn't.... Easy points really. I'd steam roll them.... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 22:59, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::Yeah, you're widening the field when there's unscrupulous bastards like me leading groups in it. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 23:02, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::Well it isn't looking like I'll find the dinosaur cadets anyway.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 23:03, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::My offer to Aichon still stands,... and I'll extend it to you as well. -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 23:05, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::::I'm good thanks. If Aichon wants to abandon me and my ability to be killed 11 times in a month, though, he's welcome to.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 23:10, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::::You could just take your cultist, (and Aich, take Emma) and join me. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 23:12, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::::::No, I've shooped a picture of a trex with a disco ball and sunglasses. There's no going back for me.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 23:23, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::::::It's Doug that does this stuff, since Emma is already being preempted for BB3 as it is. And which group are you doing again, Mis? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:25, 5 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::::::RDD. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 00:27, 5 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::::::::I'm still weighing my options, honestly. Yonn has a compelling case with dinosaurs, however. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:32, 5 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::We could just make a tinychat or get an IRC room. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:32, 5 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::Sounds cool, but I don't know how to do either of those things.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 17:44, 5 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::Having thought about it some more, I think I'm gonna pass on RiaC, but if you want some help with the technical stuff for setting up Discosaurs, hit me up. I'm more than willing to help out. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 09:40, 8 August 2010 (BST)
== Yo ==
you playing in the Rage In a Cage at all? I'd love for you to join the All-Stars for it, if you're interested. We got all the big names atm so we have a pretty good chance. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 06:17, 6 August 2010 (BST)
:Been weighing my options while I figure out if I want to join, honestly. *points to header just above this one* I'll get back to you, Mis, Yonn, and Poodle sometime in the next day or two here, once I make up my mind on which offer to take (assuming I take one at all, of course). {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:33, 6 August 2010 (BST)
::For sure. Discosaurs could have been epic if the all-stars weren't made :( I would have campaigned the shit out of that! -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 10:40, 6 August 2010 (BST)
:::As per my other comment I just made, I think I'm gonna pass on this manhunt (just not feeling it at the moment...hunting doesn't appeal right now), but best of luck to the All-Stars in their endeavors! {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 09:42, 8 August 2010 (BST)
== Erm... ==
<nowiki>*</nowiki>[[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2010_08#Erm...|Cough]]* -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 19:58, 6 August 2010 (BST)
:Yeah...I was wondering why you didn't just ban him yourself when you voted. Figured maybe you just didn't feel like it. Anyway, thanks for pointing out the error on my part, and if it goes to A/M, you won't hear any contest from me, since I was definitely incorrect. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:03, 6 August 2010 (BST)
== My signature ==
Hi, can you help me with my sig or direct me to a tutorial page? I'd like to make one. Maybe just putting some colors. Thanks! --[[User:DiSm|DiSm]] 14:17, 8 August 2010 (BST)
:[[Help:Templated Signatures]] should cover the basics, and anything you need beyond that, just come back and ask. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 15:12, 8 August 2010 (BST)
::Misanthropy covered it. Check that page out and see how it goes for you. If you're having any issues with coloring, sizes, or whatever else, just come back, ask, and I/we will be happy to help you out with it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:52, 8 August 2010 (BST)
::: Ok nice, i'll look that tonight. Just another question totally unrelated, when you responded I wasn't notified. It's obligatory to click the "watch" button, right? --[[User:DiSm|DiSm]] 21:16, 8 August 2010 (BST)
::::Yeah, some/most of us have our preferences set to automatically watch pages that we edit, and then we periodically check our [[Special:Watchlist|watchlist]] (others, such as Mis, simply watch [[Special:Recent Changes]] like a hawk). You only get notified when someone posts to your actual talk page. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:18, 8 August 2010 (BST)
::::: The Recent Change page is hardcore enough for me thanks ;) I'm trying to make my signature. Late I'll try putting colors. --{{User:DiSm/sig}} 21:22, 8 August 2010 (BST)
::::::I'll have you know I watch my watchlist like a hawk, and RC more like a vulture. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:28, 8 August 2010 (BST)
::::::: Oh isn't that crazy look at that sig! thanks. I may have made a mistake by creating a page that now craves its speedy deletion [[DiSm/sig]]. Sorry --{{User:DiSm/sig}} 21:31, 8 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::Since you asked for a deletion here and you were the only author of it, I was able to handle it as as scheduled deletion. So...I didn't see it if you didn't. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:37, 8 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::: This should be OK for some time, I'm quite happy with my sig. I also discovered lots of cool clickable boxes on the "my preferences" page! En Route to Glory! --{{User:DiSm/sig}} 21:48, 8 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::Most excellent! Well, let us know if you run into any issues. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:49, 8 August 2010 (BST)
== RE:Removing non-suggestion comments from page ==
I ''think'' he was trying to make a suggestion - obviously he hadn't read any of the instructions at all. Do you want me to try and sort him out, or will you? Or is he just not worth it? --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 20:47, 9 August 2010 (BST)
:He was trying to make one, yes, but it ended up just being a request, not a suggestion. Since it didn't follow the instructions, and it had no obvious merit, I saw no point in fixing it for him. I.e. it's not worth it, since it'd be spammed out once the mandatory six hours were up anyway. Also, that page is not a talk page, so please don't respond there. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:02, 9 August 2010 (BST)
==Featured updates==
Its actually the kind of job that would be brilliant for someone wanting to be a sysop. Mention it next time someone moans. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:08, 9 August 2010 (BST)
:I definitely agree. It's low-profile, thankless, janitorial jobs like those that are the easiest way to get your foot in the door for a sysop position, I'd say. Even so, you're not gonna get any help from me, since I was never really very supportive of the idea (I didn't ''dislike'' it, I simply thought that this weekly maintenance would be a hassle, and I'd say I've been proven right), and "helping to become a sysop" never held up as an incentive for me since I wasn't interested in the position anyway. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:12, 9 August 2010 (BST)
::There's no way to set a switch function on a weekly basis, is there? It'd be a simple case of racking up the template to loop the pool, then editing it whenever a new article gets the green light. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:15, 9 August 2010 (BST)
:::The effort lies in writing the little descriptions, not updating it.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 21:18, 9 August 2010 (BST)
::::Yes, but the point is that instead of making it a maintenance job where a new synopsis has to be done every week, it then becomes a case of one day's effort which rolls out gradually. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:20, 9 August 2010 (BST)
:::::And no, there is no way to do it. From what I understand, however, if we had the update to the wiki software, there may be a way to do stuff like that, though I haven't looked into it much. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:21, 9 August 2010 (BST)
::::::Damn. Well, still, I guess I could patch up some ready-made synopses for the featured articles we have already, create them as subpage (of Featured, or of the page in question?), which can then just be included template-style for the update so it's easier to do. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:23, 9 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::Well, I guess I should rephrase. It's not possible to do what you suggested exactly, but it is possible (in an EXTREMELY complicated way) to make the same effect that you wanted happen. It would involve having to make nested switch statements with both the month and the day, and it would not at all be easily maintainable by regular users. I think I mentioned it during some of the conversations for Featured Article, but quickly threw out the idea. I'd strongly recommend against it, just because it'd be far too messy for a system that is actually meant to be updated from time to time. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:25, 9 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::Oh I abandoned switch when you said it wouldn't really work. I mean now to just make the manual update a case of simply changing the Featured box's code from <nowiki>{{:UDWiki:Featured Articles/Decay}} to {{:UDWiki:Feature Articles/Spawning}}</nowiki> (as an example), making a thankless manual task just a case of remembering to change it, not about writing it up any more. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:32, 9 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::What I'm going to do is leave it to the person who's written the most featured articles for now. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:28, 9 August 2010 (BST)
== If Template ==
Where's the If "THIS" then "THAT" Template?--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 00:10, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:Well, starting at the "highest level" templates (I call them that, because they are built on other templates), you might be referring to {{tl|if}} or {{tl|if equal}}. The former checks if variable 1 is defined, and, if so, it outputs variable 2. If it's not defined, it outputs variable 3. The latter template checks to see if variables 1 and 2 equal each other. If they do, then it outputs variable 3, otherwise it outputs variable 4. If we go "lower", there's also {{tl|ifdef}} and {{tl|ifndef}}. The first checks to see if variable 1 is defined, and then outputs variable 2 if it is, while the second outputs variable 2 if variable 1 is not defined. Lower still is just using default values for variables in templates, though that kinda works more in the if not this then that sense. Oh, and {{tl|switch}} might be useful for you too. If none of those float your boat, you might also check some of my sandboxes for AND, OR, and XOR logical operators that I wrote a long time ago, but haven't found a use for yet. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:24, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::You're right, this is all far too complex. I'm working on a far simpler way.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 00:28, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:::What always puzzled me, is I see their usage, and understand what they're supposed to be doing, but what I don't get, or can't see, is what they're actually doing. -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 00:50, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::::I don't follow. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:05, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:::::I know that they exist. I understand the how, Aichon gave us that. I knew that prior to this conversation. I just don't understand the why. -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 01:31, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::::::Why ''what''? Why they exist? Why they work? I never gave the how for their working or their existence, though I did give it for their use, but "why use them" is the same as asking "why do they exist", so there's no point in restating it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:43, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::I've already answered your questions. I know why exist. I understand the how. I just don't understand what they are meant to accomplish... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 01:52, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::Again, I don't follow. Clearly there's some disconnect in our understanding each other, since in my book, if you understand why they exist, you know what they are meant to accomplish. The two are the same. I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, but I genuinely don't get what you're asking, and was merely looking for clarification on your question. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:12, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::I'm trying to ask you politely,... but alas I've failed. You'll think I'm asking something you've already answered, but alas, you'd be mistaken. My question, though it seems to be already answered, is not. What the fuck do they do? I know that they are there to provoke a response, if a then b, if c then d.... I know that they are there to direct the flow of data. I understand what they are meant to do, and thus the why. I know how they do it, and thus the how. "What" is the question... What do they do? I see them on the wiki. I know what they are meant to do,... I know why they exist... I just can't figure out what they accomplish... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 02:25, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::They spit out variables based on input. As has already been stated. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 02:26, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::No, I don't think I answered your question, which is why I keep asking for clarification. It's obvious to me that I've failed to answer the question you're asking since you and I are using words differenly. So, let me restate what I think you're asking in my own terms. You're asking me what is the effect that they cause? As in, what do they actually change? Like, you see them in the code, and you know they control stuff, but you don't know what changes as a result of the control? If so, basically, we use them for lots of things. For instance, with the BB3 page, I use that {{tl|ifdef}} one to check if the announcements page has any text on it, and if it does, then I display the announcements on all of the BB3 pages, otherwise I display nothing at all. Or with the GSGM template that was mentioned, as groups were confirmed, the GSGM folks could write the word "Confirmed" into the template, and the {{tl|if equal}} one could recognize the word and then change the background color for that group so that it showed visually it was confirmed. Anyway, if that doesn't answer your question, I'm gonna need some more clarification or restating, since I just don't ''get'' what it is that you're asking, but I ''do'' want to answer whatever it is. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:35, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::Mis went the direction I would of expected you to go, and you went the way I didn't. Thank you. You've answered my questions... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 02:42, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::You do realise that Aich pretty much rehashed the first response he gave right up there, yeah? {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 02:45, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::::Look, I'm having a really shitty day, so don't take any of what follows to personally. To be quite honest... even I regurged it back in a way. Now piss off, and mind your own damn buisness you pathetic peice of trolling shit.... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:08, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::Sure thing. And you gotta remember, I've spent 2.5 of the last 3 years working as a TA for Computer Science courses. I ''like'' explaining these sorts of things, but it's simply a matter of knowing what it is that I'm supposed to explain. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:45, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::::I guess I understand,... I'm more of a visual person though... I'm going to have to borrow that code, and tinker with it,... and see the difference. Thanks. -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:08, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::::Try tinkering with the GSGM templates on the suburb talk pages. Should be fun. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:09, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::::::Yeah,... At least now I know what I'm looking at... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:12, 10 August 2010 (BST)
==Protections==
[[UDWiki:Administration/Protections#My_pages|Help me out?]] -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:15, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:oiqwejnamsndjkaslhdn. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:19, 10 August 2010 (BST)
::Actually,... the only thing I'm looking for is a protection of my talk space... to be honest with you. -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:30, 10 August 2010 (BST)
:::Let's continue this there so that the others can weigh in easily if need be. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:32, 10 August 2010 (BST)
== Adbot ==
There's a new, crank-shaft adbot who just uploaded a picture and spam page. I'd normally nail it, but I'm on a phone right now and can't process the red tape that goes with bot-bans. Should be on RC still; if not' see newbie contributions. {{:User:Red Hawk One/sig}} 07:44, 11 August 2010 (BST)
:Will do in just a moment. Thanks for the heads up. I'm not much of a RC stalker. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:15, 11 August 2010 (BST)
== What gives? ==
I'm noticing that [[LOO Rangers]] is actually being protected now.  I'm wondering where the administration is drawing it's collective wisdom from, deciding that a page dedicated to nothing more than slandering a group of players is worth protecting.  I don't find it to be any sort of fair that the page is even allowed to exist if the group being slandered is disallowed to respond to the page by making edits to it.{{User:Hiro Kazama/sig}} 8:31, 12 August 2010
Strike that.  In the time it took me to see what happened and formulate a response, you deleted it.  Thank you. {{User:Hiro Kazama/sig}} 02:35, 13 August 2010 (BST)
:It was protected in order to prevent the rash of vandalism that had occured, as is standard practice. The point is moot now as it currently exists within a user's namespace as a result of a move. Remember that non-encylcopedic pages are generally considered owned by their creators, and that talk pages exist for a reason. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 02:38, 13 August 2010 (BST)
:To be clear, it was moved, not deleted. I merely deleted the redirect that went to the new location of the page. Edits of a vandalistic nature are never welcome, which the ones being done on that page clearly were, hence why it was protected. That said, you are correct that he shouldn't have been allowed to have that page in the main userpsace, since NPOV is supposed to be maintained there, which is why the page was moved into his userspace. Pages in a person's userspace are permitted to be POV and contain pretty much any content they want. I'll likely unprotect it in a bit, but any edits made to it by people other than LOOser will almost certainly be considered vandalism, since others are not permitted to edit pages in his userspace without his permission. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:39, 13 August 2010 (BST)
== Templates ==
Do you know of a template which will return the current second of the minute? --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 19:31, 13 August 2010 (BST)
:Afraid that it can't be done. Same with even just getting the minute, I believe. You can use <code><nowiki>{{CURRENTHOUR}}</nowiki></code> for hours, however. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:01, 13 August 2010 (BST)
::Hmm. What about one that would generate a pseudorandom integer? --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 21:15, 13 August 2010 (BST)
:::We don't have a RNG in the wiki software, unfortunately, and if you wanted to make one yourself, the best you could probably do is seed it with a timestamp, but I don't see how you could parse...actually, come to think of it, it ''might'' be possible to get minutes, but that would be the best you could do, and that would be worthless for a RNG. Plus, with the way that the wiki handles caches, it wouldn't work well anyway, since pages can stay cached for hours or days at a time. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:09, 13 August 2010 (BST)
::::Not minutes, just the current time. Best way might be to nest together some switches based on hour, day and month so that it ''seems'' random but is completely pre-ordained. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 23:23, 13 August 2010 (BST)
:::::Actually, I meant minutes, not the current time. I think it might be possible to make a switch statement that can extract the minutes from a timestamp. Regardless, caching would make it pretty useless, and an RNG that only updated once a day is similarly useless. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:12, 14 August 2010 (BST)
::::::Anything that changes fairly frequently is good. Hours should do fine. --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 20:32, 14 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::Well, as I said, caching will still be an issue. If you want that though, just use a {{tl|switch}} template and use <code><nowiki>{{CURRENTHOUR}}</nowiki></code> as the value. Then set up 24 cases, one for each hour. Should be fairly straightforward and simple. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:22, 15 August 2010 (BST)
== Userscripts ==
I've been looking very carefully at all your GMscripts! They're really cool ones :) I'm a big fan of scripts and extensions. I think I've got ALL of them, really. I should show you some really old and kludged possession of mine. I tried to make some old stuff work for me but the results are really quick and dirty. I tried to use ''UD building state colorizer'' but that one doesn't work at all. Also ''Barrista'' does not works well. Bars are empty and my name is ''null''. I can ''exit undefined'' :/
Something I find strange is the barricade option! I thought that for security, when you click the button the server generates a random link ''barricade#'' with # a number. Then how can your extension know the actual number before you click? Cool thing. --{{User:DiSm/sig}} 12:43, 16 August 2010 (BST)
:Which browser are you using? Some browsers don't support all of the features available, and I haven't had a chance yet to see how the recent game updates might have broken the userscripts either, which might explain a few more issues you're having. For instance, with Barrista, the issues you describe make me think you're using Firefox, and that's a known issue, which is why I say in the description for Barrista that it doesn't work with Firefox. It's probably possible to make it work, but I haven't had the time nor the inclination to sit down and spend the hours figuring it out since I don't use Firefox myself (I still plan to...one day...). As for Building State Colorizer not working, that's news to me, so I'd like to look into it some more. Again, if you can tell me what browser you're using, I'd like to know, since that script should be working across all of the supported browsers (i.e. pretty much anything but IE).
:Regarding the barricade link, you're right, he does generate a random number for the barricade button to use, so you can't just punch it into your address bar and hit it a lot. Instead, what my userscript does is find the barricade button that's on the page, extract the "action" field from the button (the action field contains the random number), and then use that as the action field for my button. Basically, you could say that I take the action from the actual barricade button and put it in mine instead, which is why I also delete the barricade button from the page in order to clean things up. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:04, 16 August 2010 (BST)
::Actually, scratch that about known issues with Barrista. The game update broke it further, so it's not even working for me. Ditto for UDBSC...the game update broke it as well. I'll have to look into what changed... {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:13, 17 August 2010 (BST)
:::Turns out the game didn't actually break UDBSC, but a broken Barrista caused it to not function properly. Anyway, I've fixed Barrista for the recent game update (turns out Kevan changed the code of the page), added support for Firefox (turns out the fix was simpler than expected), and fixed a few other errors I had (I was wondering why every Mall I checked didn't have a Gun Store...now I know!). Anyway, give 'em a download and install and see how they work for you now. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:04, 17 August 2010 (BST)
::::Hey Aichon. Been testing various scripts recently (a friend of mine needed me to find some for her), anyhow I tested Barrista on Chrome and found some problems (tested the newest release).
::::The HP and AP bars do not work (there is nothing in them), the XP display does not list any value, the action buttons (exit building and search in my case) overlap the suburb name, and the character name is null. Also of interest is that the old character box has not disappeared as it does in Firefox.
::::One thing I'm unsure of is the greying out of the settings tab when clicking skills and contacts, making it impossible to navigate directly back there, you have to go via the city view (occurs in both Firefox and Chrome although in Chrome navigating to settings will take you to null anyway).
::::By the way, I was wondering if you could explain to me why you chose zoom out as your refresh button over map.cgi?
::::I hope this is of use to you. And thanks for the Survivor Aggregator, that's my favorite. :) - [[User:Whitehouse]] 02:48, 17 August 2010 (BST)
:::::Well, dang, right you are, it ''is'' broken in Chrome again. I'll look into it later tonight and see if I can find a fix for it. I have no idea why it's doing that, since Chrome and Safari are built on the same rendering engine, and it looks perfect in Safari.
:::::As for Settings, it is grayed out on those pages because I need to find your character ID on a page in order to make the link to Settings (technically, Greasemonkey in Firefox could get around that issue, since it has the ability to store information, but I don't make use of Greasemonkey-specific behavior), but your character ID isn't anywhere on those pages. In some of my earliest versions of the script, I outright removed the button, but I found that behavior to be annoying in terms of muscle memory and whatnot, so I simply chose to gray it out instead in later versions.
:::::And I chose ?zoom for a few reasons. One, some of my scripts (e.g. chud) rely on having that list of characters in order to work properly, so having it displayed means that other userscripts can work better as well. Two, in situations where people tend to refresh often, such as strike teams and the like, it's useful to see the complete list of people in the building and who is at what HP. Three, I figure if you're using an IP hit, you might as well get your money's worth and get more information. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:09, 17 August 2010 (BST)
::::::Okay, I don't have a great explanation for it, but I think the fault might lie with Chrome, not me. Basically, when I first installed my newest version, I had the exact same results you mentioned. Despite modifying the code and making all sorts of other changes, nothing seemed to be working. That is, until I disabled the script in the extensions settings, then reenabled it. It seems like that did the trick, since it immediately started working on its own. I even reverted back to the version of the code that I released earlier today, disabled and reenabled it, and it still works, so I'm guessing it's something odd about the way Chrome is handling these scripts, though I'm not sure what that could be. Anyway, try disabling it and then reenabling it, and let me know how that goes. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 07:58, 17 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::That works for me too. Everything seems to working. Thanks. :) - [[User:Whitehouse]] 16:02, 17 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::Hey Aichon, thanks for all your hard work with these scripts.  I am using Opera 10.61 and the Building Colorizer was working fine 'til the UD update.  I've replaced the script with the most current one (1.3) listed on you userscripts page but no joy.  Am I looking in the right place for the most current version?  Were you even aware that Opera was having a problem with it as well?? --[[User:Dex Man|Dex Ter]] 02:44, 18 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::Yeah, I've been getting a few more reports from various people both on IRC and the wiki that this script in particular is causing issues (I now have reports of issues for Chrome, Safari, and Opera). I'm not sure what the problem is just yet, since in each of the browsers I've tried it with, it gives me issues at first, but then can be made to work with just a little jimmying around with the settings for the userscript (i.e. without changing the code at all). Regardless, I'll be looking into it some more within the next few hours, since you're not the only one reporting issues, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to find a fix to the code, since the code seems to work even without changes if the browsers just want to cooperate. Anyway, I'll see if I can sort out what might be the problem, that way I can either give instructions that work or else can post code that works as expected without any funny business. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:21, 18 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::Okay, try installing the new version, 1.4.1, that I just posted. It should work now. Turns out that it may have only been partially broken (i.e. works sometimes, not others), which is why I was having trouble finding the issue. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 10:13, 18 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::Unfortunately, still not working for me.  I tried removal all other scripts to be sure there was no conflict - no luck.  Tried the recommendation to use it with Better Name Colorer - again no luck...    :(    --[[User:Dex Man|Dex Ter]] 11:14, 18 August 2010 (BST)--
::::::::::::Afraid I don't know what to tell you. I actually just installed Opera so that I could test this very issue for you, and it worked fine for me immediately (though a few of my other scripts don't seem to work, such as UDMap, chud, and possibly more I haven't realized yet). Although, now that I think of it...you mentioned earlier that you were installing version 1.3, but you should have hopefully been installing v1.4 or later at that point. Just to confirm, you ''are'' using v1.4.1 right now, right? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 11:44, 18 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::Well, that is odd.  After your previous note saying you repaired the script and to install V1.4.1 I went back to the scripts page and found the updated header and the install button brought me to V1.4 which I installed, and it didn't work.  Now I go there and it gives me V1.4.1!  which I've installed and it works.  Maybe I didn't refresh the page?  No idea... regardless, it is working now, thanks for the help. And, yes, UDMap and chud don't work for me either, and never have, along with many others...  :)    --[[User:Dex Man|Dex Ter]] 15:51, 18 August 2010 (BST)--
::::::::::::::Yeah, I posted 1.4.1 right before mentioning it here. Prior to that I only had 1.4 posted, which was the partially non-functional one. And I might have to look into those at some point. I wonder why they don't work in Opera... {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:50, 18 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::::I still haven't tried the new versions of the scripts but everything sounds very good to me :P I'm using Firefox with tons of addons. That's a real problem now. I'm addon-holic. I also use Kameleon sometimes but that's just for fun. When I'm on my phone I use OperaMobile which is a real pain. I'll let you know when I have the chance to test again ;) --{{User:DiSm/sig}} 16:29, 19 August 2010 (BST)
Hi Aichon, do you know the udbrain extension for firefox? [http://www.alloscomp.com/udbrain/]. I have been talking with it's "creator" (the original from scratch script is somewhat lost...) because it isn't working anymore :/ (like udtoolbar sadly). He said he was going to have a look at it but he is lacking the habit of coding. Maybe one day you could have a look? --{{User:DiSm/sig}} 13:13, 4 September 2010 (BST)
:Ehh...to be honest, it probably isn't going to happen. UDBrain relies on a Firefox extension, as you mentioned, which I have no experience with, nor am I particularly interested in learning how to work with them, since almost all of my scripts came from ideas that I wanted for myself but figured I would share so that others could use them too. Since I use Safari and Chrome as my primary browsers, if it doesn't work in them, there's virtually no chance that I'm going to make it, short of getting paid to do so. Plus, I'm not really a fan of UDBrain anyway for a few different reasons. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:38, 4 September 2010 (BST)
::No probs as Udbrain is now fully functionnal again :D, I just love this extension, sorry if you don't like it ;) It is the acme of metagaming! And for me UD IS metagaming, information is power. I am sad about udtoolbar, it was a very nifty graphical "improvement", I played half the time with it on. --{{User:DiSm/sig}} 18:08, 5 September 2010 (BST)
==DS Redesign==
Smaller does seem better. I'd probably add a link in the peer reviewed etc. box to the dupe search engine. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 14:10, 17 August 2010 (BST)
==Building state bug==
The building state Userscript is basically rejecting the new UD on Chrome ("New UD" meaning it since the update for directions to safehouses/Scent trails). I've tried reinstalling it, but it's always grey.
Sorry to be a bother, but if you can fix it whenever, it would be great :D {{User:Shadok/sig}} 14:02, 17 August 2010 (BST)
:Check a few headers up. The issue has already been addressed. It's a problem with Chrome, not the userscript. Just disable it then reenable it via the Extensions settings in Chrome. If that doesn't work, try uninstalling and reinstalling, then disable/reenable if necessary. I'm not sure exactly why Chrome is buggering it up, but it is. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:33, 17 August 2010 (BST)
::Well, you've fixed it now. New version works fine. Thanks for getting that working. {{User:Shadok/sig}} 10:14, 18 August 2010 (BST)
== Urban Sombrero ==
Checkuser confirms Celmare as an alt of Urban sombrero. Grounds for a ban on the account or what? I shouldn't think so unless vandalism comes up, but I'd imagine something must be done.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 13:02, 18 August 2010 (BST)
:I also have knowledge to indicate that several of the IPs he's used are proxies. Can we ban those IPs, or is vandalism on them necessary first?--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 13:06, 18 August 2010 (BST)
::I'd suggest bringing it up on A/VB, but we do have [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy_Discussion/proxy_use|a policy]] regarding proxy use, so even if vandalism hasn't occurred, other steps may be taken potentially. I don't have as much experience with this area as some of the other sysops however, so I'd definitely take it to VB and see where the discussion goes. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 13:10, 18 August 2010 (BST)
==Huh==
I guess I'm not the only one who can't count.  There's actually 13 Spam votes total [[Suggestion:20100820 Auto attack toggle switch|here]], not 5.  Unless you were only counting the ones with Spam in bold, then yea, there's 5.  But then again, [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Suggestion%3A20100820_Auto_attack_toggle_switch&diff=1762392&oldid=1762380 this] bold spam vote is technically unsigned, as there's no link to a userpage, so technically there's 4.  Perhaps you ought to correct your mistake. ;) --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 03:24, 21 August 2010 (BST)
:I counted just fine. I ''was'' only counting the ones in bold, since that section can have a few different types of votes under it, and they're each governed by a different set of cycling guidelines (i.e. we don't just tally the votes under that section and cycle based on that alone, since dupes and spam votes are cycled differently, otherwise you could make the case that I should have cycled it as a Dupe instead). In this case, we need a minimum of three actual Spam votes before sysops are allowed to exercise their right to clear the suggestion from the system. As for the one invalid signature, you are right, it is invalid, though it makes no material difference. I corrected it, just because you nudged me about it, but, generally speaking, it's more effort than it's worth to make corrections like that, given that it doesn't affect the outcome of the suggestion. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:50, 21 August 2010 (BST)
==Lost Section==
Hey,... [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Deletions&direction=next&oldid=1566835#Image:KTscroll.PNG this] isn't in the deletion archives,... how come? -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 2}} 03:38, 21 August 2010 (BST)
:[[UDWiki:Administration/Deletions/Archive/October-2009#Image:KTscroll.PNG|"whatlinks here" is a beautiful thing]] (it should have been literally the first thing you did to find out where it was archived) -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 04:24, 21 August 2010 (BST)
::However that would take a modicum of awareness. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 05:08, 21 August 2010 (BST)
:::Save your attacks for when he's self-restraint challenged, not for when he thinks something is broken and speaks up to get it fixed, which would improve the wiki. Good-faith. Don't discourage it. --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 05:59, 21 August 2010 (BST)
::::Fair enough, you be right. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 08:00, 21 August 2010 (BST)
::Alternatively, September 18th + 2 weeks = October 2nd, which is the month and day it was archived. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:54, 21 August 2010 (BST)
== Template:Click ==
Remembered the discussion from a while ago and wondered if anybody actually did update the template. But you'd made others instead. I mean the oldest version was utter crap, mine was workable if limited, and yours was easily better. I would've updated the template :P Anyway, I remember being quite miffed at the time when I made some swanky changes and then you showed up and thoroughly trounced me.
So I decided to try out a possible IE fix on [[Template:ClickInternal]] which seems to work. If you agree, can we maybe redirect Click to it now? {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 01:21, 27 August 2010 (BST)
:Heh, well, I hate to break things, and with edge cases the way they are, I wasn't sure that my fix would work for every single thing that the original template worked for, which is why I figured it'd be best to just make new ones. Plus, I needed one for an external link, so it just made sense. And I do apologize for any one-upsmanship I may have engaged in. It wasn't my intention, but I just remember stumbling on that conversation while tired and sick one night and seeing a massive discussion about how it wasn't possible to do some part of it when I knew I had already done something just like it before.
:Anyway, since I'm on my Mac, I don't have IE right in front of me at the moment (it'd need a reboot to Win7, but I'm using this computer to cade watch Blackmore at the moment), but from what I can tell, there's a bit of an issue in FF, Chrome, and Safari. If you mouseover the region for about 1000px below an image, you should see that it's actually part of the link now as a result of the recent changes. We'll probably want to clean that up. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:39, 27 August 2010 (BST)
::Annnnd, reverted the font-size and line-height changes for the moment, just so that it doesn't break existing uses of the template. I think you're on the right track though, and something along those lines should be workable, I suspect. It's just going to be a matter of figuring out which combination does the trick. Plus, there's also the question of dealing with the inline-block, since IE7 and lower doesn't respect it, as far as I can recall, though we may be able to get around it since I seem to recall something about tricking IE by using the hasLayout property and "zoom: 1"...gonna have to check into that, I guess.
::Also, I've seen a few cases where ClickInternal fails currently anyway, and I can't figure out why. In all of the cases, it was for an image nested a few structural elements deep, but there just must've been something about the positioning that threw off things. Go figure. It's definitely not perfect, even in the browsers it "supports". {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:47, 27 August 2010 (BST)
:::Don't worry about the one-upmanship, I'm only trying to one-up by fixing it for IE after all. :P
:::The 1000px below thing is indeed disappointing. But that just makes me think as I did for click and have several em-spaces, so the height lines up. But then you need to spam em-spaces. (Hell, having 20 or more in Click actually wouldn't be that much of a crime)
:::Maybe this is one of those where you just hope the user puts in correct data so you can futz about less and they can deal with the problems. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 02:17, 27 August 2010 (BST)
Ok so I had another bash at it. <span class="stealthexternallink">[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:The_Rooster/Sandpit/10&oldid=1769170 See sandpit.]</span> Whatever magic that works for FF et al that you managed seems to still apply. Whilst IE relies on the em-spam stuff (thus still fails for wide stuff). However the font-sizing agrees with FF now. The only problem is the added feature of the inline. The old template never had it, but having it obviously gives problems for IE7 and older as you said. Since the only real use of inline is sigs, I'm wondering whether to remove it since it basically means broken sigs for older IE, and then forcing anybody using it to replace with image redirects. While it's an edge case, we are talking broken signatures for anybody browsing the site in an outdated IE. Probably not a problem for the regulars but still a big problem for the internet at large.
So anyway assuming the template does actually work, I defer to your opinion on the inline issue. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 14:25, 30 August 2010 (BST)
:I like it! That actually solves the main problem we had with IE8. That said, as you pointed out, it does come with a few drawbacks, one of which you already noted:
:#IE7 doesn't handle inline-block properly, so images each get their own line, making it unsuitable for signatures.
:#The changes to font-size produced two effects:
:#*It adds an image-spanning onmouseover link underline through the middle of the image in Chrome and Safari.
:#*In IE7, some images (taller than line-height?) get a good chunk of the bottom cut off, seemingly due to being pushed down by some invisible text.
:As I had mentioned before, I had some ideas regarding getting this to not break in IE7, but I hadn't looked into it much. I finally went ahead and looked into it some more today, and what it basically boils down to is that we can use various CSS hacks to specifically target IE7 with certain attributes, making it finally not break there. Coupled with what you came up with for IE8, we can combine these various methods to get something that doesn't break in IE7, and works perfectly in IE8, Firefox, Chrome, and Safari.
:To get it to work, I located some inline-block tricks that fool IE7 into allowing us to display it inline and added them into your code. As a nice bonus, they also provide a little extra backwards compatibility with older versions of FF. I was then able to take some of those tricks, which relied somewhat on CSS hacks, and was able to produce some other CSS that specifically targets IE6 and 7 (by putting "*" before the attribute's name) or IE6, 7, and 8 (by putting "\9" after the end of the attribute itself). By using those, I could then make CSS that would apply one attribute to FF/Saf/Chr and another to the various IE versions.
:Anyway, long story short, thanks to what you figured out, it all works now. Check out the final result of your efforts and mine [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Templates11|here]], and if you want to see it put up against a test suite, you can check [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Aichon/Sandbox/Demo7&diff=1734964&oldid=1734960 here]. Near as I can tell, it now works flawlessly in IE8, Chrome, Safari, and Firefox with no drawbacks, and has no drawbacks in IE7, though it adds nothing either. I haven't tested IE6, but IE6 is only used by something like 4% of the world now, so I'm not gonna sweat over it, and the IE7 changes I made should have only helped the IE6 situation anyway. I think we finally have a finished solution with no major compromises. If you agree, and find nothing that I messed up when working with your code, I think we're good to go. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:20, 31 August 2010 (BST)
::You sir are a god among men. Hell it even works for sigs now, top stuff. So I'm gonna paste over the template and see if I can't get people to update their sigs and stuff. Again, nice work. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 06:56, 1 September 2010 (BST)
:::As I said elsewhere, you did all the hard work. I just tweaked a few things that I copied from elsewhere. Here's hoping they don't break when IE9 arrives. >_> {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 07:41, 1 September 2010 (BST)
::::Apparently IE9 will actually have decent CSS3 support and a 97 Acid3 score and non-buggy CSS2. Well that's what the interwebs seem to suggest from the preview anyway. Bout time too. {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 08:47, 1 September 2010 (BST)
:::::Ehhh...I'll believe it when I see it. Plus, I'm actually more worried about those hacks. Assuming Microsoft fixes the parser bugs that let those hacks work in previous IE versions, and assuming they actually support CSS3 decently, we'll be fine, but if they suddenly support CSS3 better and they don't fix the parser bugs, we might have IE9 displaying only half of the image, possibly. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:50, 1 September 2010 (BST)
Suddenly working links EVERYWHERE!--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 10:17, 1 September 2010 (BST)
:Using IE8? That's Rooster's handiwork in action there. He really came through on a great idea for a fix when I had nothing. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 10:34, 1 September 2010 (BST)
::Everywhere? Like there's only maybe 60 inclusions. :P {{User:The_Rooster/Sig}} 12:17, 1 September 2010 (BST)
:::Yeah, but I clicked the links under this header and they finally work. :D --{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 13:10, 1 September 2010 (BST)
== thankx ==
Thanks for the fix on the community announcements template... It's one of those things where you see the fixed version and wonder why you didn't think of doing that in the first place :/ -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 11:07, 27 August 2010 (BST)
:Well, I had seen that problem from day 1, but I was both too timid and too tired to mess around with it then since some of this inclusion stuff makes me pause for a minute. Right now, this Blackmore stuff has me ramped up a bit, and I'm too tired to worry about consequences. Thankfully, it worked out okay. I did FA as well, though it'll likely be less useful than the CP change due to the nature of the page. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 11:13, 27 August 2010 (BST)
== userscripts ==
How hard/possible it would be to make a "last seen" greasemonkey userscript where if you look at a profile in UD it has a small note somewhere on the page of "where last seen" (with location and date), the information of which would be submitted by users who had the same script, onto some sort of server? Ignoring the moral issues, of course. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 12:44, 30 August 2010 (BST)
:Rev's IRC Profilebot has a feature like this, though I think it's keyed into the 'last seen' feature of the RG rather than anything else. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 13:49, 30 August 2010 (BST)
:You're basically asking how hard it would be to make DEMON, which would involve cobbling together a database server that you're hosting on your own which would collect all of the data that the users were passing to it. As for the script side of things itself, I'm not actually too sure. It's beyond what I've ever done, I'm afraid, since I've never worked with having asynchronous communication between the scripts and some other source. I want to say it's possible using userscripts, at least in Firefox, but I can't honestly say since I'm not entirely sure what the security restrictions are on that type of communication. I do know it should be possible to do it if you write an extension for Firefox, but something like that is beyond what I've done before, so it'd take me awhile to get up to speed on how all of that works if I were to do it (i.e. I'm not accepting the job). Long story short, probably possible, but you'd likely want someone with extension writing experience, as well as someone with database and PHP/ASP experience. It'd take more work than what any of my scripts took. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:20, 30 August 2010 (BST)
::Cool, thanks. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 00:36, 31 August 2010 (BST)
== Calling it...==
This [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Unofficial_UD_Forums&diff=1771322&oldid=1771252 will] end well. --[[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]][[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''''Thadeous Oakley''''']][[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]]</span> 00:07, 1 September 2010 (BST)
:Jorm gets in to edit conflicts now and again, but he generally backs down if you can provide good evidence for your case. It shouldn't be a major problem.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 00:13, 1 September 2010 (BST)
::It'll end up being jorm vs. Rev if it does continue since I'll back off before taking it to arbies. It's not worth it for me, given that I want to see that entire page redesigned anyway. I've found that attempting to predict jorm rarely turns out as I expected in the end, however. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:14, 1 September 2010 (BST)
::My arse. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 09:03, 1 September 2010 (BST)
::Meh, let's hope he doesn't see it then and doesn't come back. After the mayoral drama this just screams "MY SITE ON TOP".--[[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]][[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''''Thadeous Oakley''''']][[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]]</span> 09:45, 1 September 2010 (BST)
:::Meh. With the mayor thing he stopped after he was arbied. I doubt he'll go as far this time.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 10:09, 1 September 2010 (BST)
::::Of course he stopped, he was bound to it by arbies rule. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 10:38, 1 September 2010 (BST)
== Templates8 ==
Hey just wondering if [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Templates8|this]] was likely to change at some point. I'd kind of like to use it if it won't.{{User:Vapor/sig}} 15:10, 1 September 2010 (BST)
:Anything in my Sandbox is likely to change at some point "soon", since they're always subject to change and usually I delete them as soon as I'm done with them. That said, if you want to use it, you're welcome to copy out the template's code to a userpage of your own and then can use that copy of it. I'll probably post it in the public namespace at some point, but I wanted to sit on it for a few more days and possibly get some more feedback before doing that. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:50, 1 September 2010 (BST)
== center image that is 720px wide ==
my recruitment image won't center, no matter what. it hurts me so. [[:Category:Recruitment#Every_Villain_Is_Lemons_:_Lemon_Group]] is where it's at and I've tried centred divs, just using <nowiki><center></nowiki> and tables. no work so far :*(
Did I miss something? I would prefer my image centred in the ad. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 06:55, 6 September 2010 (BST)
:I'm in a bit of a hurry at the moment, so [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Demo12|here's]] a fixed version for you. You had misplaced a quotation mark on the first line. I fixed your table for you too since it was broken. Also, you need to subst that ClickInternal template since nested templates aren't allowed on the Recruitment page. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:46, 6 September 2010 (BST)
::Fucking amazing. Thanks bro. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 02:07, 7 September 2010 (BST)
:::Actually, it still won't center ''on'' the recruitment page :*( so DW, I don't mind having it on the left. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 02:09, 7 September 2010 (BST)
::::Figured out what the problem is (you may have noticed on RC that it took me awhile to figure out). Anyway, long story short, the issue is that you apparently need text to stretch out the table that is housing the advertisement inclusion on the Recruitment page. So, basically, slap in a load of text. I mocked up an example (which also cuts out some other cruft that you still have in your code) at that same page, so you should see how it works and what text it is that I'm talking about. Just make the text long enough to line wrap and everything should work fine, basically. I wish I had a more elegant solution, but it's the best I can come up with for now. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:03, 7 September 2010 (BST)
Hey, yeah, I saw it and I meant to post here a few times but somehow forgot once I'd reached here. I saw it, it's such a strange happening but thanks heaps for fixing it. Unless I find the effort to put a div over the text to cover it sometime, I probably won't use it yet, hidden text is kinda lame and it's sad that that's the only way we could get around this :( Thanks heaps for the help. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 00:33, 11 September 2010 (BST)
:Well, if you change the table on the Recruitment page itself, you could make it work. Otherwise, you have to force it to stretch or it won't work. But I'm not sure what the folks over there would think of that idea. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:36, 11 September 2010 (BST)
::Actually, all the centering techniques worked fine until embedded as a template, so theoretically if I was inclined to modify the actual recruitment article inside the page all I'd have to do was just do Image|center|850px etc. However, I'm not really interested in bending the rules for this minor thing in the slightest, especially compared to the amount of possible (legit) disappointment by the restricted rule abiders if I was allowed to. DW. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 14:10, 11 September 2010 (BST)
== Can I solicit a message from you? ==
I spent some time thinking about my Knights-death (the one from DD) and would appreciate if I could have a moment of your time to talk about it, since it turns out that it's actually seriously bugging me. And since the musings are both very OOC and hilariously pathetic, I'd rather not spam the wiki with it.
If the answer simply is no, I understand.
-[[User:Pinkgothic|pinkgothic]] 23:26, 7 September 2010 (BST)
:There's a link in the side navigation bar that you can use to e-mail me (the one that says "E-mail this user"). Feel free to shoot one my way, but my time is kinda limited today and tomorrow, so depending on how much thought you want from me, I may not have time to get back to you in depth immediately. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:41, 7 September 2010 (BST)
::Ah! See, I wasn't sure if your wiki-associated e-mail is the one you use. Thanks for the heads-up. And by all means, real life is far more important than the internet - I wouldn't dream of an immediate answer. -[[User:Pinkgothic|pinkgothic]] 00:07, 8 September 2010 (BST)
:::All of my addresses feed back to the same inbox eventually. ;)
:::Anyway, I'll try to get back to you in detail as soon as I can, but, as I said, it'll likely be late tomorrow or the day after. It's looking like I have an all-nighter ahead of me as it is since I'm either leading or helping to lead about 4-5 hours' worth of meetings/groups/seminars tomorrow, none of which I've prepared for yet. So...yeah. I'll get back to you as soon as I can, but probably not until tomorrow night at the earliest. Sorry I couldn't be speedier about it, and thanks for being understanding. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:11, 8 September 2010 (BST)
== Judgement Calls ==
Back in April, you expressed concerns about my ability to make judgement calls as a 'sop. Now that I've had the job for 5 months, what are your thoughts? Have I managed to sort them out and keep myself under control in drama-ish situations?--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 22:27, 9 September 2010 (BST)
:Yep. I'd say you've proven yourself just fine since then. I was actually just thinking the other day about how I was glad DDR had pushed/supported you for the job in the months before you applied, since he turned out to be very correct about you as a sysop. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:56, 9 September 2010 (BST)
::Thanks! :D Very much the same for you. I've just gone back through my bid and I'm having a look to see if I've fixed the problems raised.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 23:14, 9 September 2010 (BST)
== Scroll boxes ==
[[User_talk:DanceDanceRevolution#Scroll_boxes|and such]]--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 10:00, 10 September 2010 (BST)
:Sounds like you got it sorted out before I had a chance to go over it, but if you still need any help with it, let me know and I'll take a look. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:23, 10 September 2010 (BST)
::Nah, I'm good, thanks. I can sort anything from here. But if anything does coem up, I'll let you know.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 21:25, 10 September 2010 (BST)
== what i do? ==
hey i tried removing and editing the news template and totally fucked that up. still getting a feel for coding.. blah blah blah.----[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">sexualharrison</span>]][[Image:Starofdavid2.png | 18px]] ¯\([[Image:Boobs.gif|18px]])/¯ 00:02, 18 September 2010 (BST)
:You almost had it right. You just removed a <code>}}</code> that was on a line by itself at the end of the list that needed to stay there. Check my edit to see the difference in how it was done. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:04, 18 September 2010 (BST)
::it's always something stupid.. smacks forehead. well at least I know how to revert :P----[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">sexualharrison</span>]][[Image:Starofdavid2.png | 18px]] ¯\([[Image:Boobs.gif|18px]])/¯ 01:58, 18 September 2010 (BST)
==[[User:Aichon/Userscripts#UD_Refresh_Button|UD Refresh Button]]==
The [http://www.aichon.com/dumpbox/ud_userscripts/udrrefreshbutton.user.js link] 404's. If you still have this, it'd be awesome. :) -[[User:Austin hunt|<span style="color:green">Austin</span>]] [[User Talk:Austin hunt|<span style="color:blue">Hunt</span>]] 04:18, 21 September 2010 (BST)
:Try now. It wasn't a case of me having deleted it. It was a case of me forgetting to upload it in the first place. >_< Anyway, I haven't actually modified Midianian's version of it at all, so, if mine does ever disappear again, you can use his. Alternatively, I've rolled this behavior into Barrista as one of the extra buttons it adds. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:44, 21 September 2010 (BST)
==Grr...==
You and your double edit conflicts for that suggestion's discussion. {{Grr}} --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 23:20, 21 September 2010 (BST)
: :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:25, 21 September 2010 (BST)
== because you seem to be the greasiest sysop type ==
what happened to act on profile? i need a bite as human attack script pretty plz ----[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">sexualharrison</span>]][[Image:Starofdavid2.png | 18px]] ¯\([[Image:Boobs.gif|18px]])/¯ 14:35, 22 September 2010 (BST)
:Does it no longer work? It actually never worked for me in my browser of choice, so I can't say that I ever used it or was aware of the fact that it was broken. You might talk to Revenant about it, however, since I believe that he used, and I got the impression that he was still using it as of recently. He could probably direct you to a fixed version if the old one is broken. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:35, 22 September 2010 (BST)
::i'll bring it up to him. i don't know if it's broken.. it's just not working for me anymore. i updated most of my scripts and that was the one that stopped working. i think your barista script conflickts with it or something along those lines.----[[User:Sexualharrison|<span style="color:Red">sexualharrison</span>]][[Image:Starofdavid2.png | 18px]] ¯\([[Image:Boobs.gif|18px]])/¯ 01:10, 23 September 2010 (BST)
:::The Barista script conflicts with a lot of things.  [[DSS Satellite Phone]] included. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 01:14, 23 September 2010 (BST)
:::Ah, I gotcha. Yeah, it's Barrista then. I just figured you were asking me in general. I didn't realize you were using that script. Problem is, both of those are scripts I can't use with Safari, or else I'd be more inclined to identify the problems between them and Barrista and then fix them wherever they are. I'll add notes to Barrista though, since you're not the only one reporting that issue. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:43, 23 September 2010 (BST)
== Bug report ==
Hi Aichon. Not that I'm particularly pissed off about this, but why did you delete my bug report saying that it was fake? As stupid (and funny) as it seems, this actually did happen and I genuinely wanted to know what the hell was going on. Ah well. {{User:Chief Seagull/Sig}} 18:01, 23 September 2010 (BST)
:For one, it's a fake because the character who took the screen was not the same character that you said you used. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 18:05, 23 September 2010 (BST)
::That doesn't prove it's fake. If I wanted to make a fake report (and I wouldn't know how) I would've used my own character, or at least that actually existed. {{User:Chief Seagull/Sig}} 18:10, 23 September 2010 (BST)
:::User in question doesn't exist.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature‎}} 18:16, 23 September 2010 (BST)
:If you say, on your honor, that it's legit, then just undo my edit. Since that page is used for "srs bzns" that goes in front of Kevan, however, I don't like the idea of reports that waste his time getting taken seriously. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:25, 23 September 2010 (BST)
::I didn't want to do that because I didn't want to get into any poxy edit wars and it's obvious my query won't get resolved (or even taken seriously), but trust me this is legit. After all, producing the basic HTML page would be easy enough, but than I'd have to hack into either the UD or Dumbwit servers to present the report and that's beyond me. {{User:Chief Seagull/Sig}} 18:33, 23 September 2010 (BST)
:::Not really. It's much simpler than that to fake them. And I'm not one to start edit wars over something like this. If you say it's legit, then I'll treat it as legit. End of story. I just thought you were making a joke before, hence why I deleted it. If it ''is'' a legit report though, then others might face it eventually, so it's worth keeping there. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:35, 23 September 2010 (BST)
:Oh fuck off as if that's legit. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 23:18, 23 September 2010 (BST)
:Clearly, Kevan set this up to happen to a very small number of people, in order to create entertainment, intrigue, and drama when everyone denies it as preposterous. He probably put the real character names in the dropdown menus to make it less believable. The clever bastard. --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 01:10, 2 October 2010 (BST)
== UD Item Combiner, Organizer, and Sorter ==
Thanks for maintaining this script, I'm desperate for it now that UDToolbar is broken again with the 9/16 game changes. However, when it's enabled, DSS Satellite Phone doesn't seem to work. I get beep notifications from my phone, but the phone window won't open. Any suggestions? Thank you! --[[User:Groovymarlin|Groovymarlin]] 19:48, 28 September 2010 (BST)
:Update DSS phone. Theres a post 19/6 update. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 19:49, 28 September 2010 (BST)
:: Sure enough that fixed my problem. Thank you! (And I was sure I had updated it...must have been another one.)--[[User:Groovymarlin|Groovymarlin]] 19:56, 28 September 2010 (BST)
:::Another satisfied customer. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 19:58, 28 September 2010 (BST)
==I came up with an Idea, but need your input==
I thought it would be cool if we had a wiki [[User of the Month]] Competition. Now, this would probably have to be run by Sysops, so, I'm [[Talk:User of the Month|Asking for your input here]]. And dont worry, I've asked the other Sysops too.
Cheers,
<br>{{User:Dezonus/sig}} 14:55, 2 October 2010 (BST)
== Massively Overdue Quizzle Prize ==
{|style="border:solid 2px Gold;width:250px;text-align:center"
|rowspan=2|[[Image:Damn.gif|100px]]
|style="background:Gold;color:white;font-size:small;line-height:1.5;width:100%"|'''Dancing Bear made of Gold!'''
|-
|style="font-size:xx-small;line-height:2"|Yonnua has given Aichon an animated .gif of a dancing bear made of gold for solving a quizzle! (It might take a second to load)
|}
--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature‎}} 23:24, 2 October 2010 (BST)
==Improvements to UDMap Script==
I made several improvements to the UDMap script that I'd like to share with the rest of the world. My version of the script is currently available [http://sites.google.com/site/thvortex/udmap.user.js here]. Would you be willing to incorporate these changes back into your own script page? I figured it would be easier for people to download off of your page since they already know where to find it, etc. I don't even have my own User:Thvortex page setup yet on the wiki. Anyway, below is the list of improvements I made.
* Clicking on a space in the suburb map opens the wiki page for that location in a new browser window. Yes, this works for all 100,000 locations :) It's handy for checking the recent status of a building. It did make the script about 300KB larger to include the link information.
* When moving the mouse over the suburb, there is now a GPS coordinate added to the name of the building or street over which the mouse is hovering.
* Clicking on the city map to change the suburb view did not work in Firefox and GreaseMonkey because of the security model that GreaseMonkey uses. Basically <tt>window.switch_map</tt> doesn't work but GreaseMonkey has a workaround in the form of <tt>unsafeWindow.switch_map</tt>. <b>Please verify my script still works in Safari though</b>.
* I make use of DumbWitness a lot, and I noticed that UDMap didn't quite work right in the captured screenshot. Basically, moving the mouse over the suburb map was not displaying the building names anymore. Turns out that DumbWitness was munging the page a little bit and when it saw a <tt>\"</tt> double-quote escape in a Javascript string it would cut off the rest of the code. So in one place I switched to using single quotes and apparently DumbWitness doesn't mind a <tt>\'</tt> escape. Of course, clicking on the city map in the DumbWitness screenshot still won't do anything because that requires a call-back to the user script, and that's no longer accessible in the captured screenshot.
--[[User:Thvortex|Thvortex]] 20:58, 12 October 2010 (BST)
:Holy cow, those changes are awesome and that's a lot of work you did there. Looking through the diff file, I don't see anything unexpected, and after installing it on Safari and fooling around with it a bit, I absolutely love the changes you made (and, yep, the <code>unsafeWindow</code> change works fine).
:How did you get all of the location links anyway? I had considered a feature like that at one point, but didn't feel like making a program to go through and determine the valid ones links from the invalid. I figured it'd just be easier and more generally useful at this point to push through a wiki project which aimed to create pages for each set of coordinates which then redirect to the actual location page, but I hadn't gotten around to that either. >_<
:The only change I might make is to put the coordinates at the front of the line, rather than the end, that way they don't look like they bounce around so much, but otherwise I absolutely love it all.
:Also, I get the distinct impression that you're much more proficient at this stuff than I am (it's just an idle time hobby for me), so any changes you want to suggest to other scripts would be most welcome. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:29, 12 October 2010 (BST)
::What I'd like to know is if this will break any of Aichon's current scripts... >_< --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 21:34, 12 October 2010 (BST)
:::It doesn't. The changes he made don't affect any of my other scripts from what I can see. I'll have an updated copy linked from my userscripts page in a sec. I did move the coords to the front of the name, and I also turned off the display for dark buildings and educational buildings, since I had inadvertently uploaded that version of the script awhile back (I use that myself for my Philosophe Knight, since we care about Centers of Learning, but I didn't mean to put it up for general use), but otherwise left it pretty much as you had it, Thvortex. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:41, 12 October 2010 (BST)
::Aichon, For the non-descript locations I did a search/replace with regular expressions where the replace string can have <tt>\1</tt>, <tt>\2</tt>, etc. to substitute in parenthesized parts of the regex match. To handle the building names, I actually wrote a Python script that processed the Javascript array definitions to figure out which names are duplicate and therefore need to have the suburb added to the link. If you're curious, I can give you that little script as well. For a few like "The Dewberry Building" I had to go back and fix the links by hand. And I meant to say 10,000 locations not 100,000 :)
::And I agree that putting the GPS coordinates in the front is a better idea.
::While I do a lot of programming at work, it's all operating system code in C. I'm still somewhat of a newb when it comes to Javascript and Web development in general.--[[User:Thvortex|Thvortex]] 22:17, 12 October 2010 (BST)
:::Dangit all, why didn't I think of just processing over that array? Such a simple solution. For some reason I had it in my head to run a bot over the wiki in order to resolve the building names that repeat, and it was going to be more effort than it was worth. And sure, I'd be interested in having a copy of that script around for possible later use. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:15, 13 October 2010 (BST)
::::The script is [http://sites.google.com/site/thvortex/makelinks.py here]. Commented lines on top are the search/replace expressions I've been using. The Javascript declarations were close enough to Python's that I could just copy & paste the code over. The extra <tt>o += </tt>... code was to keep the order of the declarations the same on output. I would tweak the script slightly for each building type.--[[User:Thvortex|Thvortex]] 06:43, 13 October 2010 (BST)
:::::Many thanks. And thanks again for the changes to the script. They still look great a day later. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:46, 13 October 2010 (BST)
== Damn my eyes! ==
Where is UD? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 13:37, 15 October 2010 (BST)
:Found it. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 13:41, 15 October 2010 (BST)
::I'm so confused... {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:18, 15 October 2010 (BST)
:::Your News update from the 6th. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 17:33, 15 October 2010 (BST)
::::Oh, that wasn't my update. Someone else posted it. I just responded. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:10, 15 October 2010 (BST)
== mac ==
What IRC client do you use on mac? Also, what's the story behind the text gradient code you have as your header on this page that can only be seen on safari? It's incredible. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 13:51, 16 October 2010 (BST)
:Colloquy is my preferred IRC client (I use it with the Synapse theme that it comes with). It's free and works great.
:As for the gradient, basically, both Firefox and the WebKit browsers (Safari and Chrome) support "alpha masks", which you can kinda think of as images that you can put on top of/overlay on other images or text which make different parts of the lower image transparent to different extents. For a different analogy, they're more like those slides/transparencies that you'd use with the old fashioned overhead projectors, but rather than being completely clear, you can put any image on them that you want, and when you lay it over another slide/transparency, it would block out parts of the lower image. Anyway, in addition to that, WebKit supports the ability to create gradients programmatically, which can then be used as an alpha mask. So, that's what I did. It should work in both Safari and Chrome, I believe. Firefox will eventually get the ability to do it, I'm sure. And maybe in 10-15 years IE users (assuming it's even still around) might be able to enjoy it too. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:08, 16 October 2010 (BST)
::Oh man, that's fantastic, didn't realise it worked on Chrome too. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 07:56, 18 October 2010 (BST)
:::If something works on Safari, 999 times out of 1000, it works on Chrome too, since Google used Apple's open source WebKit rendering engine as the basis for Chrome. I've run into a few things that work differently, especially since Chrome auto-updates with newer versions of WebKit whereas Safari users have to wait for Apple to push out updates, but they are almost always identical in terms of how they show things. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 09:12, 18 October 2010 (BST)
::::Sweet. Is it only text specific, or can I apply it to styles as a whole? For example, say, my current signature, could I make the background gradiented and leave the text normal? -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 10:53, 18 October 2010 (BST)
:::::You can use it for whatever. If you wanted to use the gradient as an input to a <code>background-color</code>, I see no reason why it wouldn't work. You could bypass the entire alpha mask too, if you just want a gradient. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:35, 18 October 2010 (BST)
==Yagoton Groups template==
I don't actually care about the [[Sanitarium]] being in the historical groups or not. However, all they ever did in Yagoton is that ridiculous cinema tour, back in '07. I don't deny the historical facts at all... However, they have never really been located in Yagoton nor did they been at all active in this suburb since this time (if we can call that active...). If you think they don't deserve to be placed in the historical groups then I don't really know where to place them. I have already deleted their name in the active group on the main [[Yagoton]] page before transfering them to the template. If they get removed everywhere, they'll simply get forgotten.
Not really a problem for me, mind you... But I thought it would be best that I mention it. --{{User:Eagle of fire/signature}} 05:30, 18 October 2010 (BST)
:Oh, I don't have a problem with them being outright removed. In fact, that's generally the preferred way of handling groups that didn't make a profound impact on the suburb. So, yeah, if you don't think they should be listed with Yagoton (and based on what you described, I think you're right in saying they shouldn't be), then feel free to remove them completely. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:35, 18 October 2010 (BST)
::Erm... Seriously? If I were to do that, I would probably erase at least half the groups. :P
::I don't think it would be a wise idea. Even though the vast majority of those groups didn't have much of a profound impact, they are still part of the history of this suburb. We simply happen to have a lot of it around... --{{User:Eagle of fire/signature}} 06:32, 18 October 2010 (BST)
:::As long as we're talking about historical groups, ehhh, it's your call, since it's a suburb you know far better than I, but if it were my call, I probably would go ahead and erase about half of them.
:::If you look around at most of the other suburbs, you won't see many or any historical groups, and that's because the bar is pretty high to be considered historical (a lot of people actually seem to support the idea that a group should be listed in [[:Category:Historical Groups]] before they can be listed in that section of the suburb listing, but that is by no means an actual rule). Yagoton definitely has a more storied history than most suburbs, as you pointed out, which I think was the reason they already had more suburb-level historical groups than probably any other suburb in the game (5, prior to your edit).
:::Even so, the usual protocol is to just delete groups that go inactive unless they made a big impact on the suburb, as I said, and if you look at other significant suburbs, such as [[Darvall Heights]], [[Ridleybank]], or [[Pitneybank]], you won't see nearly that many historical groups listed there (3, 0, and 4, respectively). That may be an indication that the bar is set too low in Yagoton now (12 groups after your edit). Plus, adding so many of them dilutes the impact of having the other ones that are definitely historical listed (e.g. Amish Liberation Front, Ghetto Cow, and Gingerbread Men, all of which attained city-wide recognition).
:::Rather than take my word or have to make a tough choice yourself, however, I might suggest that you instead merely post a list of the groups that went inactive on the talk page for the suburb and try to garner some consensus on which of them should be considered historical, using the ones that were already listed as the bar against which the new ones would be measured.
:::If we're talking about Sanitarium, however, since they are possibly still active elsewhere, they should not go in historical (that section is only for inactive groups), but if they are not in Yagoton currently, then they should not be in Hostile either. This sort of thing is pretty common on the wiki, and the proper course of action is to simply remove them. I'll probably do it tomorrow if you don't beat me to it, honestly. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 09:42, 18 October 2010 (BST)
::::If you ask me, I'd be way more prompt to remove Ghetto Cow and Gingerbread Men from the list than I would do the Sanitarium. I played all my character life in Yagoton and I never even knew they existed before they appeared on the list...
::::That's why I am reluctant to do hasty changes. They might have been present in Yagoton but I never met them. Or they might simply have been added because they did a very minor visit in the past... It is not really easy to know.
::::As for the Sanitarium: while I know that group is still active elsewhere, they definitely had an impact in the suburb a long time ago and then left. That they are still an active group or not was not really of concern to me when I added them there: I added them there because they were an historical group of '''Yagoton''' itself. The Wiki terminology is always confusing and easily wrongly interpreted. It is no wonder that there is constant edits over edits. --{{User:Eagle of fire/signature}} 16:14, 18 October 2010 (BST)
:::::Well, I could easily see re-adding them once they go inactive (or if they return, of course), but the purpose of the list is to either highlight active groups or inactive ones that made an impact. Since they fit into neither at the moment, they should be removed. I know the language is confusing, but that is what's meant by it. And, again, I'd suggest taking it to your suburb's talk page, since they'd be better judges of which to keep and dump than I would be. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:08, 18 October 2010 (BST)
== Don't I need.... ==
A reevaluation 8 months after my last promotion? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 20:28, 18 October 2010 (BST)
:Nope, not unless you get demoted. Bureaucrats aren't subject to re-evaluation unless they get demoted since their election counts as a show of community support. So, for you guys, we show the next time that your seat is up for election on that template. The only "evaluations" you have to worry about are the usual 3 month cycles or a 12 month mandatory election if for some reason you didn't go up in the meantime. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:51, 18 October 2010 (BST)
::Goddamn it. Why can't I just be evaluated! --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 10:28, 19 October 2010 (BST)
:::You know you can voluntarily start one yourself, right? {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 15:48, 19 October 2010 (BST)
::::But that just looks like I need my e-peen stroking. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 16:10, 19 October 2010 (BST)
:::::Don't you? {{Tiny|Meet me out back with a crisp twenty...}} {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 16:17, 19 October 2010 (BST)
::::::Thats a terrible price. Throw in an aircraft carrier and its a deal. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:34, 19 October 2010 (BST)
:::::::I hear you're running low on those. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 19:23, 19 October 2010 (BST)
== Sears is using zombie speak ==
I'm not sure if you all are aware of this, but sears has a zombie theme on their site that is using zombie speak straight out of Urban Dead:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/dap_10153_12605_DAP_Zombian?adCell=W2&i_cntr=1287783933121
Seems to me that Urban Dead should get an attribution.
Are you guys aware of this? What are your thoughts? {{unsigned|Herman}}
:That's pretty awesome. And yeah, most of that is pulled straight from [[Zamgrh]], from what I could see. The only exception I saw is that they used "e" in some of the words, which isn't part of Death Rattle. As for attribution...that's up to Kevan to pursue, but I don't see who they would attribute it to, exactly, since Kevan made the game, but the players invented those words over the years. Still though, asking them to credit it and link here would be cool. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:13, 23 October 2010 (BST)
::It gets better. Check out http://twitter.com/zombieshopper some of those lines are just great. --{{User:Vapor/sig}} 00:25, 23 October 2010 (BST)
:::Yeah, I was just thinking they could give a little love. Even just a link at the bottom of the page with a small thanks would be nice. I think it's pretty cool either way, and someone has an awesome job :) {{Unsigned|Herman}}
::::Hi,
::::I really like the zambah theme!
::::It would be great If you could credit the players of Urban Dead and the incredible Zamgrh language they developed (http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Zamgrh).
::::The reason I suggest this is because the Sears.com zombie theme seems to be using Zamgrh, and a small attribution with a link to urbandead.com (or to the Zamgrh wiki page I linked above) would be very appreciated by the Urban Dead community.
::::Thank you for taking the time to consider this request.
::::Respectfully yours,
::::Herman Burger
:::::You should have mentioned that it would be [[Yahoomas]] all over again, and that 10k people would shop there forever. --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 07:50, 23 October 2010 (BST)
::::::From: Heather Hoyt <hhoyt@opinionlab.com>
::::::To: Herman Burger
::::::I will be out of the office  Friday, October 22nd with limited access to email. I will be returning Monday, October 25th.
::::::-Heather
==Hello!==
You amused me <3 {{User:Dudemeister/sig}} 02:39, 24 October 2010 (BST)
:Sweet. Always glad to hear of satisfied folks.
:What'd I do anyway? >_> {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:51, 24 October 2010 (BST)
::Oh, wait, that was you in-game? Didn't realize you were SYP. Yeah...I was expecting you to be one of my group members, since they had said they were standing there, and instead I found you. I know I hate it when folks scan me and run without saying anything, and you had an awesome line in your profile, as I recall, so I felt that a response was necessitated. I'm glad you enjoyed it. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:54, 24 October 2010 (BST)
==Color scheme recommendations for wiki page ==
Hey Aichon,
Since you seem pretty savvy with magical wiki things that magically look amazing, do you have any recommendations for [[Template:MHSMain|changing the color scheme of this?]] I've never really liked it but the few schemes I've played with a little look...I don't know...equally as dumb. We've used this one like forever and a change of pace might be a good thing. -[[User:MHSstaff|MHSstaff]] 22:54, 25 October 2010 (BST)
:Well...I'm not exactly a very artsy type of person. I'm just patient with my designs and keep tweaking until I get them where I want them. In truth, I'm really bad at coming up with stuff.
:Anyway, looking at it, what that needs is a new layout scheme more than a color scheme, I'd say, if you want it to look more like a publication. Newspapers and magazines have very distinct page layouts that make them instantly recognizable as such. Things like the use of a multi-column layout, a smaller serif font (such as Times), a bold and eye-catching header at the top, and more use of the horizontal space would go a long way. Either that, or maybe design it more like a magazine, with 3-5 pages per issue that's released, that way you don't have a super long page.
:If I were to redo it (which I briefly considered doing, before realizing that I had a lot of random thoughts and ideas and that it'd take me several hours to try out and tweak, whereas more creative person could get right on their first try), I'd probably ditch the side navigation bar and would move everything to the top, would widen the main article space out more, would try to incorporate a multi-column design for reading the articles (if feasible, which it should be with CSS3), would put a bold/high-contrast dark border around the whole thing since the majority of the interior should be white for easy reading, and would choose a stronger design for the header at the top (rely more on the RRF shade of red, perhaps, and replace it with an image of some sort, though I'd strongly advise having it be a light background with dark text, rather than the other way around, in order to preserve the appearance of a publication better).
:Not sure how useful any of this is, but there it is anyway. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:44, 26 October 2010 (BST)
::[[Image:MHSlayout.png|450px|center]]
::Tried this in Paint (I, uh... draw out all my pages before I code them), just went for a ye olde newspaper shade of tan, though in retrospect, I'd probably go with {{C|#F9F9FA|_'''#FCFAF9'''_|#000000}} for the background. It's very slightly off-white so it gives a papery look, especially when the browser surrounds it with white to highlight the difference (see [[Samhain Slaughter 4|here]] for the visuals). The brown used there could just as easily be black. I'd also tuck a link to RRF in the "RRF's Premier Rag" bit. Also of note, I have a severe loathing for the Lorem Ipsum. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:05, 26 October 2010 (BST)
:::Dumping the sidebar is a wonderful idea, as is the off-white. I'll try single column and multi-column and see what sticks. Thank you both. -[[User:MHSstaff|MHSstaff]] 04:34, 27 October 2010 (BST)
::::yeah, good call, the sidebar is a pretty dated setup and doesn't set a newspaper. Good luck! -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 07:55, 27 October 2010 (BST)
So I think I might try [[User:MHSstaff/Projects/TestingGrounds|something like this.]] Removing the side bar and going a little off-white were both really good ideas. Any suggestions as far as the archive page? If I wanted to try a double column, are there any examples on the wiki I can look at first? -[[User:MHSstaff|MHSstaff]] 03:15, 28 October 2010 (BST)
:A double column is relatively easy. You're essentially looking at a table with two tall cells. Just make your first column in a table the way you want it, then duplicate the sizing and style of it again within the table. So you'd be looking at this:
{| style="width:200px; height:300px; padding:0px;" align=center CELLPADDING=0 CELLSPACING=0
|-
| style="width:100px; border:solid 1px #000000;" align=center | One<br/>One<br/>One<br/>One<br/>One<br/>One<br/>One
| style="width:100px; border:solid 1px #000000;" align=center | Two<br/>Two<br/>Two<br/>Two<br/>Two<br/>Two<br/>Two
|-
|}
:Just copy the raw code for that and fiddle with it as you see fit, by adding the background and fixing width, etc. You can also specify borders on all sides of the cells except the inside (<nowiki>"border-top:solid 1px #000000", etc</nowiki>) so as to give it that columns-in-a-newspaper look. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:26, 28 October 2010 (BST)
::See, that's the hard way to do it. The easier way would be to use CSS3, which allows you to do true columns (i.e. you don't have to split the text yourself in order to get it to go between columns; instead, it'll handle itself), but there are no examples on the wiki as far as I know of the CSS3 approach, nor would it work in IE in all likelihood (it'd appear as one column in IE, I think). Mis' approach works just fine. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:42, 28 October 2010 (BST)
:::Also, I might suggest using a grayer color for the off-white, since the current one looks a bit too pink for a newspaper. Maybe something like #F9F9FA instead of #F9F9FA, since that would make it more gray with a slight blue tint, which is more in keeping with most newspapers I see. If you're going for a magazine look instead, then the background should actually be stark white, but then surrounding the entire page you would want to use a background that was some other color so that you'd get some nice contrast (I'd go with an off-white there, so that it wouldn't be too distracting)). Kinda like what I did with the green for the [[SoC]] page, except you'd have white instead of gray for the interior and probably something not quite as strong for where I used the green. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:54, 28 October 2010 (BST)
Dumb question time. Right now, I have a main page that uses a template to load articles based on the template input:
<nowiki>{{MHSMain2|Articleleft=Text1010left|Articleright=Text1010right}} </nowiki>
is an example. So if I wanted to do an archival page, I would have an archival main page with the correct text inputs to my template. Is it possible to have just one page, that based on the link referencing it, would send in the right information to template to load when clicking on the nav link? So rather than having a million archival main pages, I just have one with a lot of links, and each link loads the right information when you click on it. Are such things possible? Or do I really have to have a million archival main pages? -[[User:MHSstaff|MHSstaff]] 22:03, 28 October 2010 (BST)
:I think you're going to have to explain that one to me a bit slower, sorry. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 22:21, 28 October 2010 (BST)
::Yeah, I'm having trouble tracking too. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:26, 28 October 2010 (BST)
:::Sorry. Let me explain better. One way I can do this is to have a main page for each issue I want, in which the content for let's say Issue1 is
:::<nowiki>{{MHSMain2|Articleleft=Issue1left|Articleright=Issue1right}} </nowiki>
:::and the content for Issue 2 is
:::<nowiki>{{MHSMain2|Articleleft=Issue2left|Articleright=Issue2right}} </nowiki>
:::Each issue would share the same layout, but would have different articles based on the variables. If I have 30 issues, I would need 30 separate main pages. My question is rather than have 30 separate pages, could I have just two pages:
:::*in which the first page is a list of links (one link per Issue) that link to a second page and also send in the information for the Articleleft and Articleright variables to that second page
:::*and the second page takes those variables, uses the  <nowiki>{{MHSMain2|Articleleft=Issue2left|Articleright=Issue2right}} </nowiki> code, and then displays the right content based on which link a person clicked? -[[User:MHSstaff|MHSstaff]] 22:31, 28 October 2010 (BST)
::::I'm not too sure it's possible the way you're looking it. I think the archives are going to have to be separate pages, sorry. Though this is usually where Aichon makes me look silly so don't get disappointed just yet. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 22:34, 28 October 2010 (BST)
:::::Nope, you're right. Separate content needs separate pages on the wiki. There's currently no way to use the same page(s) to show different content depending on what link is clicked. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:39, 28 October 2010 (BST)
::::::Figured I'd ask before trying. Thanks to both of you for all your help though. -[[User:MHSstaff|MHSstaff]] 22:43, 28 October 2010 (BST)
== This is why someone else should do stuff. Talking of which.... ==
Ta --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:02, 26 October 2010 (BST)
:Ta? Anyway, simple mistake with a simple fix. Not a big deal either way. Also, what's this about an IP ban issue I saw? I was about to look into what you guys were talking about, but if you can direct me, it'd save a few minutes. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:08, 26 October 2010 (BST)
::The user who created todays Holocaust denial fun was using a proxy IP, loads of evidence, but after I blocked it they still seemed to be able to edit. 4 minutes afterwards. Seems to have resolved itself. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:10, 26 October 2010 (BST)
:::Okay, sounds good then. If it comes up again, I'll look into it. Betting it's something simple but non-obvious if it is a recurring problem. Anyway, thanks again for being good about covering the routine junk that none of us like doing. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:15, 26 October 2010 (BST)
::::Shout at DDR, he's the crat around here. {{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:23, 26 October 2010 (BST)
:::::Abuh? I'm so confused. Not sure how we made the jump to me shouting at someone and 'crats coming into it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:31, 26 October 2010 (BST)
::::::Speaking of the above, was the IP issue actually resolved? -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 07:56, 27 October 2010 (BST)
:::::::I'm not sure. I never looked into it. Ross seemed to indicate it was handled. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:23, 27 October 2010 (BST)
== oops ==
Too many wikis, sorry dude. Want to chime in on VB about the fate of his new page? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 19:23, 27 October 2010 (BST)
:No prob. I didn't realize I had undone your work until after I was done redoing it. XD {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:28, 27 October 2010 (BST)
== You Know ==
I still thinks its a work around alt. Looking at the editing times of all the alt accounts its normally online between 7am and finishing about 10pm (wiki time). I'm assuming that like me you believe the IP thing is just hot air?--{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:14, 29 October 2010 (BST)
:Pretty much. There's really no valid reason for him to be engaging in the behavior he's engaging in, and if he continues in it, I see no reason not to just ban his IP in another day or two. Possibly escalating him as well since he's continuing in vandal behavior. Also, do all wiki sites call their admins "sysops"? I couldn't remember if they did or didn't, but he certainly knew how to refer to us here. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:20, 29 October 2010 (BST)
::Not Really. But it does say sysops about 9 times on the VB page. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:29, 29 October 2010 (BST)
:::[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Teutoburg_Forest This] is a good Read, Apparently Hermann of Teutonborg was also known as [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2010_08|Arminius]]. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:36, 29 October 2010 (BST)
::::I told you so! Trust your native historian. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 19:03, 29 October 2010 (BST)
:::::The admin permission is universally known as "System Operator" within the software, "sysop" is just usually the most common abbreviation of this. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 17:03, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::I had seen them referred to as Administrators in some places, so I didn't know if that name was more common elsewhere. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:02, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Communities call them anything they want (I think Brickipedia, the lego wiki, has funky names) but the permission groups are always the same by default. Sure they used to be called "moderators" here, but the position was still technically "system operator". {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 18:09, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
== I know ==
But you won't run for crat, regardless of your sensible attitude. BTW, the Hermann situation? As i read it, both you and yonn are in favour of my Ban as an alt, delete the page and Mis isn't convinced? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 18:58, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
:I say ban it, I just figure there's bound to be something pre-emptive we can do for future attempts like that. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 20:45, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
::So, let's go ahead and do the bans. As for the future...your Open Discussion idea might need to be put forward for discussion after all. I have a feeling this won't stop. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
:Eh, as I said with the last round on A/BP, I'm already putting in less time with UD. With my A/RE coming up in a few weeks, I've been thinking seriously about whether I intend to stick it out or if I should go to A/DM preemptively since no one likes it when sysops file for demotion right after making everyone go through an A/RE. My interest with the game has been waning recently, and I find that I more or less only really enjoy it when I'm in the middle of something bigger now, such as Blackmore 404, BB3, what I was hoping the Samhain Slaughter 4 would be, etc.. The wiki still interests me, but I'm not sure how long that will last if my interest in the game keeps decreasing. This is the same trend I've noticed in myself with past interests that have kept me entertained for a year or more at a time, and even if I don't quit right now, I think it's probably safe to say that my activity will be on the decline, in general, from here on out. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
::Also, it's not "regardless of", it's "because of". ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:01, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
== Fixed UD AP Recovery Script ==
I realize it's in your Discontinued script section but I still like using it instead of the full blown Barrista script. It now supports negative AP, and for a large enough negative will display a date in addition to time. Also, I changed the time display to use the browser/system locale settings instead of the hardcoded 24-hour time. My changes are [http://sites.google.com/site/thvortex/udaprecoverytimeindicator.user.js here] if you want to update your copy of the script. {{unsigned|Thvortex}}
:Sounds like good changes all around, and from screenshots I've seen, you're not the only one that uses it. I'll trust that your changes work as you say and will update the copy I have to your version. If you ever do set up a userscript page of your own, which you might consider doing, given how many scripts you've made and edited now, let me know and I'll link that to your page as well. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:46, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
==Completely Forgot==
Still want demoting? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 19:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:Yep, haven't changed my mind yet. Is this just a friendly check to see if I still wanted it, an official one because I missed something, or were you planning on doing it today? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:19, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::Just reviewing stuff and with the arbies hoo-ha I completely forgot to do it. I was giving you a get out of jail free card. Tell me when you've finished with the Misconduct archives and I'll do it. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 19:21, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Oh, I had just figured you were waiting until the 25th, as per the request I had made since I figured I'd help keep things tidy until then. :P Anyway, if you want to do it today instead, I'll let you know when I wrap up this tidying. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:23, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::::25th is fine dear fellow. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 19:25, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Works for me. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
==Demotion==
Most sysops would slack around after a demotion request, or even abuse their powers. But you just start to work even harder. That's classy :) --[[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]][[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''''Thadeous Oakley''''']][[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]]</span> 21:13, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:Ehh...I've always just kinda done odd janitorial work whenever it bothers me or the mood catches me. The whole sysop or not thing never really mattered to me. As I said in my nomination, you guys could expect "more of the same" from me once I was promoted, and the same should be true in reverse. I helped before I was a sysop, I helped while I was a sysop, and as long as I'm around, I'll still help after I'm a sysop. It just so happens that Spiderzed's linking to archived A/M cases on A/PM reminded me of the fact that I had started to clean them up awhile back but hadn't finished. Maybe I'll get around to finally cleaning up/making consistent A/VD as well before I leave. >_> {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:18, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::It was a compliment, hush deary. But if you need any help, just sound the horn. --[[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]][[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''''Thadeous Oakley''''']][[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]]</span> 21:28, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:::I know, and thanks. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:00, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
== Alphabetical Order Failure ==
''Re: [[Template:Reganbank Groups]]''<br>
Wow, that was pretty embarrassing on my part. Thanks for catching that.--{{User:Labine50/sig}} 01:06, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
:No problem. Up until a few weeks ago when I added that notice regarding alphabetical order to the top of the code for all of those pages, almost no one at all followed the guidelines, so I was having to correct these sorts of things quite a bit more often. I'm used to it at this point, and don't even give it a second thought. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:10, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
== [http://www.texasfrightmareweekend.com/lifetype/ TFW] April 29 - May 1, 2011 ==
Want to try to organize something at this convention in Dallas this spring? {{unsigned|Vapor|00:01, 28 November 2010 (UTC)}}
:Honestly? I hate to be a spoilsport, but no, not really.
:Truth be told, I just don't ''get'' cons or the idea of meet ups with other people you meet in online games. The WoW guild I was with for 2-3 years had annual meetings that brought in dozens of attendees from around the globe, but I never went. And there's even a halfway decent [http://aggiecon.tamu.edu/ local con] that I've never bothered to attend. Those sorts of things just aren't my cup of tea. I don't know if it's the fact that I only know these people online and have no interest in putting a face behind the personality or voice (i.e. I'm shallow), that I'd be embarrassed in explaining to others why I'm gone for a few days (i.e. shallow again), or that I just can't be arsed (i.e. I'm lazy, which is my current theory, since it seems to hold true elsewhere), but the simple truth of the matter is that I've just never been interested in attending these sorts of things, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
:If someone is passing through College Station, I'd be happy to grab a meal with them and hang out for a few hours, but April is when I should be on the home stretch with my degree, so even if the desire were there to attend, the logistics wouldn't be great for me anyway. As far as organizing it goes, however, I do respect that others enjoy these sorts of things, and I do think that it'd be a great place to have it. Arlington isn't too far from DFW, and getting to Texas is a good middle-ground for both east- and west-coasters, as well as being a not-too-bad drive for people in the midwest that might want to do that. Plus, I think DFW has non-stop flights to Europe, which makes it a good spot to be at. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:51, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm not optomistic this convention idea will come to fruition, but if the universe aligns just so and by some miracle it goes down in DFW, I'd be sad to hear you won't make it. I do understand though and can only hope you'll be convinced otherwise if the oppurtunity presents itself again in earnest. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 05:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
==Dumb Question ==
So I am learning about tables and wiki-magic things but I think I am missing something. I am making a RRF semi-history page that shows some of the targets the horde has hit and where we have been. Its a half-parody on weather stations "Live StormTracker---Now with 3D SUPERDOPPPPPLLLLEEEER." I am calling it "ZomboTracker." For the target page, I jury-rigged Rooster's nav template so I can switch between maps of different buildings that we have nahmed nahmed over the years. Here is the [[User:MHSstaff/Projects/ZomboTrackerTemplate|'''template for that''']] and here is [[User:MHSstaff/Projects/ZomboTrackerAll|'''one of the subpages that calls it.''']].
The problem is in the template, the page space matches up with my image graphic on top (its a space holder for now, I'll probably redo it to match the theme). But in the subpage call, it does not extend all the way to the right to match up with the image; there is a lot of white space which makes me sad. Why is this and how would I fix it? -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 20:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
:Hope you don't mind that I edited the template. Also, you'll need to edit the hospital page to make the image 600px instead of 700px, for reasons that should be obvious when you see it, and you might want to check whether you want to use Size or ImageSize as the name of your variable, since the template calls didn't match the template code (I switched the template to Size to match the template calls).
:Anyway, the problem was that you basically had one giant cell in the table you had. That cell had a white background, and you put three elements into it: the header image, the navigation table, and the radar image table. All of the space not taken up by one of those three elements would thus be white, the background color of the cell, rather than being black, which is what caused your problem. To fix it, I first, decided it was best if the header image had its own table row, rather than merely forcing the other elements to line wrap, so I bumped it to its own row. I then originally tried to put the nav table and the radar image table in their own table cells, but that proved to be problematic for various reasons (should be possible still, but I didn't want to do it), so I ended up just dumping them in the same cell and setting that cell's background color to black. Really, that's all there was to it. I tried some other stuff to fancy it up a bit, but ended up just leaving it like that. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:37, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
::I see. If it is too large, it wraps to the bottom. Many thanks for all your help kind sir. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 01:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Also, that table was 727px for a reason (the nav table was 6.5em, which ended up being 74px, and 801-74=727). In my browser, there's now a black strip along the outside of the red border on the right side of the table. It might look different in IE though, since IE, quite possibly, ''still'' handles the display of borders completely contrary to the web standards that every other browser abides by, despite having that as a bug for the last 15 years... {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::::It was completely broken for me in Firefox so I bumped it down slightly from 727px. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 02:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::It was? *goes off to investigate and fix for FF and WebKit browsers* {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:34, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Try 726px. Looks like there might be some sub-pixel rendering differences between WebKit and Firefox that are causing the issue. 726px works for me in FF without causing the black stripe to appear down the right side (i.e. the red is flush with the edge). Looks fine in Safari as well. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Yes. That works. Thanks again for all your help. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 05:01, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
==Hah==
Definitely one of the more helpful users around the wiki. Thanks again. {{User:Ashley Valentine/sig}} 15:33, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
:Right now, my head seems to be working in reverse. Whoops. {{User:Ashley Valentine/sig}} 15:34, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
::Eh, if it's any consolation, up seems down to me right now too, since I've been grading ethics essays for the last 3.5 hours and have at least 4 more hours (likely more like 6-8) of it planned for today. Anyway, thanks. I try. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:40, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
==Oh...Oops==
And yet again, you have pointed out that I have [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki%3AAdministration%2FDeletions&diff=1819719&oldid=1819585 missed a spot].  I fail. >_< --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 03:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
:Nobody else, including me, caught it either when we checked awhile back. I wouldn't sweat over it. It's hard at first, but then you get the hang of it. I remember the first time that some of us did it after Iscariot left. There were like 4 sysops in IRC, all debating about what needed to be done and none of us wanting to do it. Pretty hilarious. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:27, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::Yer all a bunch of lazy bums! {{Grr}} --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 03:29, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::And I don't ever want to do it again. We should mete it out as punishment. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:30, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
:::It could be a rite of passage for all new sysops. Or perhaps a test of anyone that wants to be a sysop: successfully do so and you'll prove your wiki-fu. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:32, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::::And I seem to be taking steps backwards instead of forward. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 03:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::Wiki-fu is a journey that begins with but a single step. Make it, and there are...well...a lot to go. And be careful of wading too deep into the drama, otherwise you'll end up fighting off the cannibalistic whales. They're mean suckers since they don't see too well. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::I turn my body from the sun. What ho, Tashtego! {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:43, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
==chud==
If it helps, here's a list of the other enabled scripts I'm using (in the order I have placed them.  chud comes directly after UD Zero Out Buttons, by the way)...:
*UD Travel
*ActOnProfile
*UD A-GPS Coordinates
*UD Survivor Aggregator
*UD Item Combiner, Organizer, and Sorter
*UDMap
*UD Quicklinks
*UD Zero Out Buttons
*Mass COntacts
*UD Same Character Highlighter
*Show recovery time for AP in Urban Dead
*UD Radio Accelerator
*Profile Viewer
*DSS Satellite Phone
--{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 19:18, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks. I'll look into it on my copy of FF and see if I can come up with an idea of what's  up. I don't really check most of my releases in FF, since 99% of the stuff just works in it as well as Safari, but it's possible it's something I miscoded for FF or else something interacting oddly with those scripts. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
Hey, Aichon.  I just noticed something.  [http://iamscott.net/1292372475800.html]  Take a look at the inventory.  Now look through the drop-down list for dropping items.  It says I have a Toolbox, but it doesn't show up in my inventory.  If I disable the Item Combiner of yours, the toolbox will appear, like seen here: [http://iamscott.net/1292372595907.html]. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 00:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:I have that script and I do believe it hides certain buttons like spray can and flak jacket. Stuff that wastesAP if clicked on fron your inventory. That's probably it but Aichon could tell you for sure. {{User:Vapor/sig}} 00:38, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::Yep, Vapor got it. It hides a few buttons that simply waste AP if clicked. It doesn't even get them all honestly, since I was lazy with implementing it, but I was just tired of having these buttons that didn't do anything and took up AP if you mis-clicked. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:35, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
== Could really use some help.... ==
I'm really confused on the if then templates, and was hoping you could help me. I'm looking to use the templates to create a chunk of code that would work similarly to the random page feature, but for items underneath my user namespace. Is it possable to do with the if then templates? -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 23:17, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:{{udspan|'''You have run out of Aichon Points'''<br>Aichon Points regenerate at the rate of 1 per non-douchebag move. Please come back tomorrow or when you've proven you aren't a douche.}}
:{{User:Vapor/sig}} 00:09, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::{{udspan|'''Is that right?'''<br>Well, you know what I heard?  PISS OFF, that’s what I heard!}}
::-{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 00:48, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::I lol'd. I usually call my arbitrary point system just "bonus points", but I might have to nick that from you since it's clever and obvious. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:39, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you're asking for (I blame it on the lack of sleep and illness...a few hours ago, I was speaking gibberish since I was so tired apparently). Anyway, if what you're trying to do is have a random page/template appear as a chunk of another page in your userspace, you might want to take a look at what Mis has done with his main user page. You can't actually do random, but you can have it vary by date and time. If you can explain to me, in detail, what a working concept would look like to the end user, I can probably give you better instructions for how to do it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:39, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::Basically, Special:Random, but for my namespace.... ie,.... click the link, and you go to a random subpage of mine. -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 03:09, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:::No. You can create a link that will ''appear'' random, but not a truly random one. You'd need to nest two Switches together, probably CURRENTHOUR and CURRENTMINUTE, although just the latter would probably work on its own. Then list the outcomes for each possibility, badda bing. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:11, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Yep, Mis is right. Basically, you don't need the if templates at all, and should instead look into the switch one. With this version of the wiki software, there's no way to do truly random stuff like that, but Mis' answer is the best one we have. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:21, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::Cool,...? -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 03:29, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::Possable.,,,! -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 03:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
== could really use some help,,,,,,,,,,,,............. ==
I'm really confused on being a decent user, and was hoping you could help me. I'm looking to use the wiki to create helpful information that would work similarly to a normal website, but just for urban dead. Is it ''possable'' to do without being a shitcunt? -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 02:14, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:PS I'll spam you for every minute you don't respond. Then when someone tells me not to I'll relentlessly recite lines from Diana from Paul Anka. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 02:15, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::Sorry, but I have a "no newb" policy on this page, and since you're trying to be polite, it's obvious you have no idea what you're doing around here. Unless you cause a scene ''right now'', you're going to have to leave. I'm taking you to rabies, VD, and Miscondick anyway though. I have principles, after all. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:44, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:[[:Image:I TROL U.jpg]]
:-{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 03:15, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Oh, but that was really f'ing funny! -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 03:25, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:It wasn't, which is why you're such a pathetic person to watch. Every second you spend on here you think you're hilarious, when you're just projecting a 5 year old making a penis in the sand and laughing hysterically at it. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 03:27, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::Better to be someone ignorant enough to not know any better, than someone smart enough to, and care less. At least I don't instigate. -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 03:31, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:::That for real? {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:33, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Haha yeah fuck off. And of [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Kevan&diff=prev&oldid=1815964 course] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration&diff=prev&oldid=1813614 you] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki:Administration/Speedy_Deletions/Archive/2010_12&diff=prev&oldid=1816956 don't] [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:DanceDanceRevolution&diff=1817333&oldid=1815981 instigate]. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 03:35, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Oh you're just pissed I can do shit like that, and get away with it. -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 03:38, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::I can't speak for him, but I'm annoyed, not because you get away with it, but because you do it at all. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:42, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::::::I'm bound to try it again too... shit like this inspired me the first time... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 03:45, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:It was okay. I've never been a big fan of image-based humor, however. There are some that are good, of course, but by and large, I feel that it's overused. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:17, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
You know what... DDR wins... he's always screwing with me... So.. I'll pull an iscariot and just leave... -{{User:Poodle of doom/sig 3}} 03:46, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:You'll never have that man's class. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:47, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
:Do it if you want, if the only two options for you are a) be a pest or b) leave the wiki, I'd much rather you leave. This time, I'll be left without regret. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/l}} 04:18, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
==Humourous suggestions==
I was going through the history of our latest n00b's talk page, and noticed that you said that the humourous suggestions edits where in archives, and shouldn't be changed. AFAIK, they may be archived, but are left open for comments/mock votes regardless. After all, it is humourous, and voting is never tallied up and closed <small>-- <span style="text-shadow: #bbb 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">[[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 09:21 20 December 2010 (BST)</span></small>
:Yeah, I realized that quite a bit after the fact, and you're 100% correct. I had thought the archives weren't supposed to be edited, but yesterday or the day before when I was reviewing his edits, I realized I had made a mistake in saying that when I noticed some text somewhere saying that it was permissible to edit them. Humorous Suggestions have never been a part of the wiki that I've been especially familiar with, since I don't follow them or their proceedings, so I had assumed that they functioned somewhat similarly to the main suggestion system, where once they are done, they're done. I was going to re-review his edits at some point and see if I needed to restore them, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:16, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
::No worries. Humourous suggestions is a quiet backwater of the wiki, with no real rules, just common sense, where people just fix things up the way they want without any drama. Doesn't get much press ;) <small>-- <span style="text-shadow: #bbb 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em">[[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[The Rules|teh rulz]]</sup> 23:15 20 December 2010 (BST)</span></small>
==Hmph==
You know, I never thought you were a Knight, although in hindsight it should have really clicked a lot earlier. If not simply for the educated method of posting, then definitely for the white mask and notches in your gun. {{User:Ashley Valentine/sig}} 13:52, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
:Well, since I play all sorts of different characters, it's not surprising that people don't realize I have ones in certain groups or playing certain ways. And unless the Knights come up around here, my affiliation with them usually goes unmentioned. Besides, having secretive members is part of who we are. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:58, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
::I have a knack for telling which Knight is which. You may proclaim to be secretive, but I know you all like to personalize the insides of your mask. DT draws ponies on his.
::Happy hunting! {{User:Ashley Valentine/sig}} 18:20, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
==My bad==
There was no bad intention in messing with your vote, just... poor judgement. My bad, please don't take it as assholery. {{User:Monstah/Sig}} 03:45, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
:I didn't take it that way at all. I just wanted to make clear that it's not something that I wanted done to my comment and that it wasn't necessary in this case. In other places it may be necessary, but not here, thankfully. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:24, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
::A'ight, then. You know, we all have our fits of dumbness and assholery and all this shit from time to time, I was just making sure. {{User:Monstah/Sig}} 19:50, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 23:02, 25 February 2016

Aichon:Talk Archive 2010
Aichon
ˈīˌkän :Talk Archive 2010