User:Tselita/Archive

Miscelanneous

Welcum to teh Wikiz!!

I did say I'd come say hello. :) -- Cheese 21:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Me too! Hi!--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 03:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Apologies

I'm not much story immersion, and occasionally forget others are. In the future, I'll make sure to kill you with a little more in-game style. My apologies. --Druuuuu ^OcTRR 19:58, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Thanks :) I wouldn't play Dual Nature if I didn't want to feel like it's totally in game. --Tselita 20:01, 2 June 2008 (BST)

If you're not aware...

That you reported for vandalism here. The outcome appears to be not vandalism, however it'd be wise to stop replying in the middle of people's comments. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 02:02, 25 May 2008 (BST)

You do realize that I got the idea from looking at other user pages, and the only thing I agreed to not do was to not break up posts on public forums (which I had initially done because I didnt know any better). But my user page would be swamped with insane amounts of spam from Grim_S and The Dead and Malton Globetrotters if I didn't have a way to keep it readable. The only other way left to me would be (and probably will be) to delete their spam every time they bother to post on my page. I want to know why, however, Grim_S is allowed to move my posts around on HIS user page, and also on mine. He's being a hypocrite - either he can't move it around on his, or he can't move it around on mine. Because his justification for moving my posts around on his user page is that it's his page - his rules. --Tselita 16:35, 25 May 2008 (BST)

I believe you actually got the idea from me. Let's see them try the same against me. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 16:48, 25 May 2008 (BST)

On my page i merely moved it into the assigned system. I didnt change anything. Here i kept your comments signed and shifted them out of my post. I then left a note at the bottom indicating i had done so and why. It was also pretty obvious from reading both posts over that your responses were in response to each paragraph in order, so i did not feel the need to elucidate on that matter. There is a clear difference between what i have done and what you did. Given that you obviously dont want me here, and wouldnt listen to any explaination i might offer as to why, i leave it to you to answer that question for yourself. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 16:55, 25 May 2008 (BST)

• All I can see is that you're a hypocrite who thinks he owns the wiki. The simple point is that you alter how I post on your user page, but you feel I can't do the same - would you prefer in the future if you bother to deluge my user page with your droning on and on and on, that I explain why I'm breaking up the novella that you are putting on my page (solely for the puropse of making it hard for me to read, mind you). There's no difference between what you do and what I do. Other users do it as well on their own pages, and you'd have to be a brain dead moron to not realize the difference between your posts and my response. But you might be just that, so maybe I shouldn't hold it against you that you were so easily confused that you'd think what I did was impersonation. I may have assumed you are more intelligent than you actually are. If you'd like, future post responses to your novels will be accompanied by pictures, and perhaps written in primer form.
• And yeah Iscariot, I got the idea from you (I just didn't feel like using your name) - I think it's a great way of reading people who try to spam me (except I signed after each of my breaks). I doubt they would (and hope they wouldn't) come after you - this was a personal thing against me from a pompous blowhard who has way too much of an self-absorbed ego (Grim.. since you get confused so easily... I'm talking about you - you're the pompous blowhard who has way too much of a self-absorbed ego. I hope that I'm making that clear enough for you). --Tselita 17:08, 25 May 2008 (BST)

<Blah blah blah spamfest of TEXT crap written by an imbecile deleted>

I'm wondering if I should delete this or keep it on and bring you to arbitration or something for trolling and spamming. One one hand.... it makes you seem retarded that you bothered to troll my user page to write this on a subject having nothing to do with you. On the other hand... I don't think you just 'seem' retarded, Karek. --Tselita 17:17, 25 May 2008 (BST)

<Karek's post deleted where he attempts and fails to be witty>

Nah I think it means I want to accuse you of vandalizing my user page and trolling. I wouldn't want you to waste any brain cells getting out the dictionary and using big words - I'm pretty sure most words you feel comfortable using when debating your point are 4 letters anyway, nimrod --Tselita 17:23, 25 May 2008 (BST)

<Karek whining that I don't take his TEXT spamming as legitimate talk - De-le-ted>

You weren't vandalizing his page, shmuck. Plus Grim understanding your lack-of-point only means that idiots tend to think alike --Tselita 18:00, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Impersonation is where you either directly alter someones post, or change its context so that its meaning is lost or appears silly. Examples would be posting "Fuck you and die" then your opponent posting something offensive in response, then removing "fuck you and die" and replacing it with a more reasonable response to make your opponent look like an aggressor. Please note that this is an extreme example however. Another would be cutting it to pieces, like you did with me, so that them many interrelated peices are no longer connected and the deeper continuous points are lost, or appear jarring instead of flowing naturally out of the whole. You only got off on that one because a number of people decided that it wasnt bad faith, rather than that it wasnt wrong of you to do so. For the record, i did not try to spam you. You have a tendancy to ramble on and on and a long post need a lot of answering, thus it is the tendancy of posts in discussions to get longer, rather than shorter (Except where points are conceded). Your ignorance of this phenomenon is quite bewildering given your verbose posting style. Perhaps you just hung around tiny kids who were so cowed by your long winded responses that they never challenged you? It hardly matters, but curiosity is curiosity. Also, i find it utterly hilarious that you are accusing me of writing long posts soly to fuck up your page, but your novels are somehow completely different. Hypocricy much? --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 17:23, 25 May 2008 (BST)

• im·per·son·ate - Show Spelled Pronunciation[v. im-pur-suh-neyt; adj. im-pur-suh-nit, -neyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -at·ed, -at·ing, adjective + –verb (used with object) 1. to assume the character or appearance of; pretend to be: He was arrested for impersonating a police officer. - Written here so poor Grim learns that his last name isn't Oxford and because he apparently doesn't own a dictionary. --Tselita 17:39, 25 May 2008 (BST)
• Breaking up your wall of spam on my user page, which was clearly made for the sole purpose of spamming me (since I'm so wordy normally, and you decided to try to mock me) is rather legitimate. My 'novels' are to try to explain my reasoning - yours are to try to 'get at the uppity girl who's daring to say something that Grim_S doesn't like.' So yeah, mine are different than yours. None of the breaks I made were to impersonate you - the idea that you can't figure that out just means to me that you have a personal grudge against me because of your huge ego problem. I did not break any interrelated peices causing them to be no longer connected and the deeper continuous points are lost - I just needed a way to respond to everything you said in such a way that I didn't have to scroll so far up and down every time I responded. You don't like it? Then make several smaller posts to me. I wouldn't care if you did that to my posts. If you're not prepared to have taht happen, don't post here. After I report Karek for vandalism, btw, I'll be erasing everything under my post to Iscariot because it's just you and Karek spamming my user page. Again. You're both basically socially inept trolls and you care waaaaaay too much what one girl says. --Tselita 17:36, 25 May 2008 (BST)

• <More whining and butting in by Karek deleted>

Lets see... he spams a wall of TEXT (literally) for something that had nothing to do with him... then claims I don't know what's socially acceptable. Nice! I'd do the same thing on your page except your page is an unreadable dark blue on black anyway. And no... I accuse people of sexism or antisemitism when they say something sexist or antisemitic. I do think that Grim's intimidated by me though or he wouldn't go through all this bother to try to shut me up. I think you're intimidated by me as well because I don't back down from you or from Grim --Tselita 18:09, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Wow, you can read a dictionary. Your parents must be so proud that their little girl is starting to grow up. The dictionary definition and an terms "legal" usage in a community may or may not match. The sooner you learn it, the better. In this case, as i have explained, it is defined as changing the content of the post, written or implied by the context. Changing the context (By changing what you say ahead of it or breaking it up) changes the perception of what is said and, in the latter case, serves to wipe out the subtext either in part or in its entirety. It doesnt need to be intentional, though it often is. Also, I like it how when i explain something to you, you ignore the explaination and duck back into your fantasy realm. Theres not even an attempt at a rebuttal, just an effective declaration of "IM RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG! MOTHER! MAKE THE BAD MAN STOP SAYING THINGS THAT HURT BECAUSE THEY ARE TRUE!!!" As for the rest, you have now been told not to interrupt other peoples posts. Carrying it on will likely get a vandalism ruling from everyone except the inept (AHLG) and the absurdly vindictive and biased (Conn). Also, your assertion that i have a grudge against you is just that, an assertion, and one i've shot down time and time again. From there all the rest of your ad hominems flow, though i rate it as just this side of impossible that you will ever admit any of that. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 17:57, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Oh boy, this just keeps getting better and better. *eats popcorn* --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:01, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Aw.. poor widdle Gwim. So any time people don't agree with or back you like your Goon army does, they are either inept or vindictive. Awwww... everyone's out to get poor Gwim. Hey .... gonna report me for vandalism when I delete every time you vomit your pablum on my page also? You continuing to respond over and over to this does show a clear personal beef with me - oooh I'm soooo scared. Now I'm going to be deleting your post. Are you going to cry and whine about that as well? That is, I'll delete it if I can without getting edit conflicted from the mountain of responding you and Karek keep doing. --Tselita 18:05, 25 May 2008 (BST)

My willingness and ability to respond to you over and over again merely demonstrates my tireless rebutter qualities. As usual though, you dont reply to the points made. Just make more attacks. Bravo milady. You have sunk to a new low. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 18:09, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Oh yay, I gave Grim a chance to try to complement himself again - good thing too, because other than Goons, complements for Grim are pretty sparse. No, Grim, your continual responding just shows that you can't stand not having the last word. And you've given more than your fair share of sinking low with verbal attacks (Dummy spit, do you recall?)

So what does that mean your's means?--Karek^maps?! 18:19, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Oh, mine are just in retaliation to verbal attacks made at me. If a person doesn't bother to verbally attack me, I don't attack them. In other words, Karek, you won't have to deal with me telling you off for being the socially inept buffoon that you are, if you keep your immature insults to yourself. I have people who I disagree with on a regular basis and yet I'm still able to talk to them like reasonable people (Zardoz, Pesatyel, Iscariot, to name a few). The fact that they don't spam me with insults helps me to take them seriously. You.... I used to think I might be able to take you seriously (even when in disagreement), but I don't anymore. You've proven that you're a cretin quite well here. --Tselita 18:28, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Well Tselita, lets get this out in the open. Ive had some time to draw some conclusions about yuou and here they are:
When you were doing your original nailgun suggestion, and while you were discussing the second on the suggestions talk page you fixated on a number of people opposed to your suggestion. You didnt like what they had to say so you sought an out. With many of the dead members who, whether you believe it or not, had good points, you simply ignored them because they were rude. You used their rudeness to justify not answering their arguments anymore.
With me it was a bit more tricky. Instead with me you needed something more solid, or at least you thought you did. You settled for my removing of your suggestion due to a mid vote edit. Instead of simply going "Oh well, its a fair cop" you had a tantrum, and came to my page to accuse me of all sorts of shit, and i soundly shot you down there, but before i could you got it into your head that i have some kind of grudge against you (This was baffling since i had been decidedly restrained on the nailgun suggestions, and everything else regarding you for some time). Now, im not saying you are pretending to be offending, im satying you convinced yourself that im out to get you so thoroughly you actually believe it, despite there being no foundation in reality, even now after you provoked this confrontation (Yes, you did this, when you threw the first stone on my talk page).
Once this happened, you felt you had all the justification in the world for the following things: Being a Hypocrite, treating me as some kind of subhuman, free licence to ignore anything i said as "trolling", and the possibility of maybe, just maybe, getting away with it because the popular myth here is that im a vicious son of a bitch that likes to maim people for fun (When nothing could be farther from the truth).
I did not come up with this just now, ive talked it over with a number of other people and we are in agreement: There is something wrong with your head. You like to play the victim and get all wordy as adefense mechanism, and have tried tyo make every conflict here a conflict between people rather than a conflict of opinions. Even in our conflict now i have been holding back, being restrained in my dealings with you, staying to the point far more often than not.
Dont be suprised you have people like funt and akule "on your side". Those two have hated me with a fiery passion for a lot longer than you have been here, and undoubtedly will still hate me with a fiery passion long after you are gone. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 00:48, 26 May 2008 (BST)

I'd suggest that people have a nice cup of tea and a lie down, but I'm afraid I'd be shot, stabbed, or just plain lynched... seriously, people, you're making mountains of molehills here. Take a deep breath, relax, remind yourself that this is just a wiki for a zombie computer game, and try to avoid the feeding the trolls. I now return you to your regularly scheduled program... ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 17:29, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Deleting most of this crap under my response to Iscariot, except for Revenant's comment - since he's not doing this to troll and he's totally, absolutely right. --Tselita 17:36, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Right, this has gone way too far. We have a little flame war starting to crackle away nicely, and it's so far spread from this talk page, to VB and then back here via Gnome's page. We also have Karek on borderline Vandalism postage. :/ It's Sunday for crying out loud. Chill. As Revenant said, this is just a wiki. Let's not get upset over it. -- Cheese 17:45, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Nothing vandalism about it you hack and if you weren't knee jerk reacting to the content that much would be obvious.--Karek^maps?! 17:46, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Not my fault that they want to waste their sundays vandalizing my user page. Should I be keeping it up while I report Karek for vandalism, or if I remove all the crap between my response to Iscariot and Revenant's offer of tea, would that be like destroying evidence? Of course knowing Grim he'd probably claim that that deleting his and Karek's crap from my user page is vandalism as well. And Karek, you dumb little real-gamerz-wannabe troll, yes it is vandalism, unless you'd be fine with me doing the same on your page. --Tselita 17:54, 25 May 2008 (BST)

The question becomes "Are they making these comments in an official or unofficial manner?" as it is an important distinction. Either way it seems that you have become the new Nalikill. Speaking as a previous target, just keep an eye out for the usual tactics and you should be fine.--Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 18:57, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Unbelievably, that was Nalikill I was talking about. ^_^ --Cyberbob ^{DORIS CGR U!} 22:27, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Before my time, so this guy's story is lost on me --Tselita 22:36, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Some relevant dates for you to look at in the vandalism archives and a ctrl+F will show you the relevant arbitration cases. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 22:42, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Can I get the cliffnotes version on this? --Tselita 22:50, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Basically, bug the "new guy" until he/she cracks from various comments, dubious vandal banning reports, and forced arbitration. So my advice would be to ask them to leave you alone and stop posting on your talk page in an unofficial manner. If they persist, then you can cite this precedence for vandal banning due to harassment. Don't let them bait you. Just keep doing what you have normally done before they popped in and don't take their bait. That's the best advice I can offer. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 22:57, 25 May 2008 (BST)

ah okay thanks for the info and advice. No worries - I'm only making a vandal banning report against Karek though because of the TEXT spam trollfest. The rest I'm just planning on erasing their stuff when they regurgitate stuff on my user page. I'm already used to the pablum commentary on my suggestions by them. Again, thanks for the advice about what to do about the harassment though - if it comes to that I'll follow it. To be honest, most of them are not worth the effort, but Karek took it upon himself to do the wall o' TEXT solely as a spam method, so I don't want him to feel he can do that lightly. I'll only keep this stuff on my page until later tonight when I make the vandal report against Karek. I doubt they'll leave me alone though, even if I was to ask. And if you notice, Karek invited himself to post on my user page on something that had nothing to do with him at all. --Tselita 23:08, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Ah, but if you ask and they refuse, then any further unwanted edits are harassment and thus bad faith edits. ;) --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 23:10, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Good point. Wow, never thought a wiki would have more lawyering strategy on it than my real life job... and I work in a law firm :) --Tselita 23:13, 25 May 2008 (BST)

There's far more of that then you'd might think, especially from people trying to either get people in trouble or by those who want to get out of trouble. Of course, since you just admitted to working at a law firm, expect accusations of wiki lawyering if you mention much in the way of rules. I mentioned my law schooling and I was proclaimed a wiki lawyer of the worst kind. Usually because I used it to point out errors. :D --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 23:17, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Oh I'm not a lawyer - I'm a legal secretary. But I get what you're saying :) Be back later tonight to make that VB report on Karek so I can get rid of this part of my page all the sooner. I'm off to see Prince Caspian. --Tselita 23:26, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Akule, you just rebutted your own point. You wouldn't have been proclaimed a wiki lawyer if you hadn't (overtly) used your legal background to make a point. --Cyberbob ^{DORIS CGR U!} 07:17, 26 May 2008 (BST)

Wrong. Someone questioned how I knew so much about copyright law and I mentioned my background. After that, whenever I mentioned anything relating to the rules of the wiki I got called a rules lawyer. I never went out and said: "I's a lawyer. Take me seriously!" This especially became clear whenever I showed a prowess concerning the letter or intent of the rules and was starting to "win" a conversation. After a while people calmed down, but it still didn't change the fact that I was taken to Arbitration over being a "rules lawyer". Watch Grim's conversations sometime. I'm sure you know as well as I do that he is a far bigger rules lawyer than I am (and a Tireless Rebutter to boot), yet he wanted me to be punished over the very same things that he did. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 21:42, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Suggestions

Techincally it didn't last 24h from your previous suggestion, though i'll let this slip. Also, please, use Talk:Suggestions before going to voting. If you would get through community discussions - being a spam bait could be avoided --~~~~ [talk] 15:43, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I need to learn how to do that first though. I just started using wiki 2 days ago.

There is a How To on that page. Tell me what's not clear and i'll try to describe it more. Oh, by the way, there are useful pages to ask questions such as Wiki Questions and Project Mentor. Also i assume you read that horribly giant template that Cheezeman put on this page above. --~~~~ [talk] 21:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Help-Talk/suggestions

Here is the link: Talk:Suggestions Here is the template:

===Suggestion===
{{suggestionNew
|suggest_time=~~~~
|suggest_type=Skill, balance change, improvement, etc.
|suggest_scope=Who or what it applies to.
|suggest_description=Full description. Check spelling and be descriptive.
|discussion=|}}
====Discussion (Suggestion Name)====
----

Just plug in your information above (replace red letters) then copy and paste it above everyone else's suggestion. It is always a good idea to let people review your suggestion before you put it up for a vote. No activity for 2 days and it will be assumed your suggestion was abandoned. So stay active on your discussion. Let me know if you have any trouble.--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 03:23, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Okay I'm beginning to understand, though I still don't know how to do a Talk:Suggestion thing yet. I have some suggestions that I'd like to run through people before I actually suggest it. --Tselita 03:23, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Basically start at the top of the page and read all the instructions. If you don't know the percentages, say so and someone will help you out. If it is the posting it part you are having trouble with, just copy and paste the one below it and plug in your information. Use preview option before your save to make sure it looks how you want it. --Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 03:32, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Signing

Please sign your edits on the wiki. You can do this either by typing ~~~~ (four tildes), or by pressing the button in the editing toolbar. Signing your edits in the standard format makes it much easier to identify when and who has made changes, and creates less work for sysops and other wiki users ZsL 20:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Please edit more carefully

Please follow the instructions on making a suggestion. --Pdeq^Talk* 23:48, 1 April 2008 (BST)

Hmm, looks like you tried to follow them and then deleted something you shouldn't from the page. I'll fix it for you. --Pdeq^Talk* 23:49, 1 April 2008 (BST)

Follow the link I gave you above, and it will give you step by step instructions. I recommend saving the page on your computer somewhere (copy and paste into a word document), and then start over from the beginning of the instructions. If you read them carefully, and follow them step by step, your suggestion will be formatted correctly. Also, when editing talk pages, please sign your posts and use a header. You can reply to my posts to you on your talk page and I will respond here too. --Pdeq^Talk* 23:53, 1 April 2008 (BST) Edit: I'm going to let you try to fix it yourself first, so you know how to format suggestions correctly in the future. --Pdeq^Talk* 23:54, 1 April 2008 (BST)

Pdeq, honestly I did go to that link and I'm not doing something right. Please help. I tried but it's really confusing :( If you can do it I can look at what you did and just try duplicating that in the future. -- User:Tselita/sig

The only step you seem to be missing is:

• Follow the link, and add the {{SugHead}} template to the page, and press preview. Then follow the instructions it will give you.

That means, you need to copy and paste {{SugHead}} onto the top of your suggestion page, and then press the preview button. That will create a little box on your page with some code you should use. Try it now.

Also, how to sign: Please sign your edits on the wiki. You can do this either by typing ~~~~ (four tildes), or by pressing the button in the editing toolbar. Signing your edits in the standard format makes it much easier to identify when and who has made changes, and creates less work for sysops and other wiki users. ~~~~

--Pdeq^Talk* 00:04, 2 April 2008 (BST)

If you're struggling trying to get the formating right, this is what your suggestion should look like when you've finished. -- Cheese 00:08, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks Cheeseman. Though I actually wonder now what you thought of my suggestion :) And I still need someone to explain to me how to put one of my other suggestions (or a revamp of the one I just posted, after I see how this turns out) on Talk:Suggestion. And Pdeq, thank you, you're an angel, even if you voted kill. Now I know how to sign :) --Tselita 03:20, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Please stop breaking up my posts with your replies.

Posting on your talk page in case you missed my reply on mine.

When you reply to my post (or anyone's) that has multiple paragraphs it would be greatly appreciated if you avoided breaking up said original post with your replies. Post normally after the OP's signature and use quotes if you have to.--ZARDOZ 21:45, 26 April 2008 (BST)

Sorry about that - didn't realize that. It won't happen again --Tselita 01:24, 27 April 2008 (BST)

Ammo Suggestion

I DO mean there are too many types of shells. As a PKer, it makes me happy having a choice in HOW I kill a survivor; however, I do think that having 5 different types of shells is too many. If you lowered it to 2 or 3 you might get a Keep Vote from me, but IMO, you would have a hard time getting it passed.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  03:23, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Well I've taken it off of voting and back to talk discussion, with a plan very much like that actually. Ill probably be reducing it to the tumbler shot, the shotgun shell (buckshot) and the dragonsbreath. Or maybe just the tumbler shot and shotgun shell, and I'll make the dragonsbreath round as a future suggestion, if this gets implemented. I just think shotguns need more variety to them. I do realize it will probably be tough to get any firearms suggestion passed, but might as well try. The key is just to make things balanced. Feel free to check out Talk:Suggestions and see what's there, k? Maybe you'll have some input for some of my suggestions. I welcome all feedback! :) --Tselita 03:49, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Suggestions

See here. I was wondering why your suggestion seemed so popular. :) --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 19:01, 18 May 2008 (BST)

I'm extremely pissed about 'zerging on the wiki' .... 59 votes which were genuine now look less than genuine... and I'm also making Nailgun v2.0 - it's in talk:discussion. --Tselita 11:44, 19 May 2008 (BST)

Wikiflooding was the term i use to describe going to a number of peoples talk pages and soliciting them for votes or other things. Its been treated as vandalism under the heading of spam for a while. Dont message everyone about it, just create it and they will see it or they wont and they will vote or they wont. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 12:20, 19 May 2008 (BST)

Tell DCC not to do that then. Like he did on Downinflames' discussion page (before Downinflames deleted most of the votes there). I don't want the fact that a few morons made sock puppets to be a reason why legitimate people who voted on the first one would not vote for the new nailgun idea (if they aren't actively checking out the suggestions page, for instance). --Tselita 17:08, 20 May 2008 (BST)

Seen as this is in a similar strand involving the new one in talk suggestions, sorry that it seems as though I was saying something about barricades, but when one thinks of a nailgun the first image that comes to my mind at least, is a construction worker nailing wood together, hence why I thought people may have picked up on it strengthening 'cades. Still, good luck with the suggestion, I haven't seen perseverance such as this in a very long time indeed. I can't wait to see what the final outcome is when it's put up for voting. Acoustic Pie 22:52, 20 May 2008 (BST)

I'm pretty sure the result will be about 50-60 keep votes for it, and about 20-30 kill and spam votes against - at least half of which will be from people in the Malton Globetrotter and The Dead groups - especially Malton Globetrotters since they've taken to trolling for my suggestions due to DCC's prodding. Hopefully there won't be any sock puppetry this time (on either kill or keep sides).

Totally okay that you thought that by the way - if it wasn't for the fact that implementing barracade adjustment would cause the nailgun to get spamminated to death I'd have probably done that as well. The funny thing is I might not be so persevering about this if I wasn't being confronted with such immature little pischers giving such inane reasonings for their votes (especially when they're actually voting against me - it's pretty obvious from all the lovely little insults, not mention sexist comments, they come up with while talking with their little hivemind). It probably would have just gotten to peer reviewed without much fuss.

Thank you very much for your comments btw :) I know it's been hard to read since their new goal seems to be to spam the comments page and have me write and write and write in response to every little inane thing they put in there. --Tselita 23:03, 20 May 2008 (BST)

My first Wiki-Related Death

It tickles me pink to know that some people on this wiki don't like me enough to use it as a reasoning for PKing my character :)

Hehe.... going to say it again - Dual Nature... I don't care if my character gets killed. Or revived. All you did was give me a way to buy some more zombie skills and when someone eventually combat- or random-revives me, my character doesn't worry about finding a heal for infection.

But you could have at least said something funny like Red Rum does when they kill someone. Your execution-style was weak. --Tselita 01:12, 29 May 2008 (BST)

Overflow and stuff

I've done a bit of clearing, so hopefully now the page should be ok to edit on. :) Enjoy. -- Cheese 19:36, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks... I've been needing to re-do my revised ammo suggestion in there but couldn't because the editting was all messed up. --Tselita 20:02, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Beta Testing

If you're still interested in the beta testing, of the newest version of the game please drop me a line at my talk page... This beta is Affliction of course. -- Rogue  Sergeant  03:55, 8 May 2008 (BST)

Alright, let me get the last graphical tune ups dealt with and the sucker is all yours to test. -- Rogue  Sergeant  01:57, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Changing your vote

(Suggestion:20080507 DNA Extractor Simplification; remove drop list) When you change your vote, your vote needs to start with #: (unless it is the first vote in its section) or it will screw up subsequent numbering. Fixed it for you though. --Pdeq^Talk* 07:39, 10 May 2008 (BST)

No no no...I believed the votes had to be numbered regardless of it being the first vote in the section or not. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:54, 11 May 2008 (BST)

Votes have to be numbered, striked votes have to not be numbered. #: makes indents it and does not interrupt the chain of #'s, but if it's the first vote that you are striking, you should just use :. --Pdeq^Talk* 02:01, 11 May 2008 (BST)

Oh, you're talking about struck votes. Never mind me than. Carry on. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 02:07, 11 May 2008 (BST)

To all self-acclaimed 'Goons', the Malton Globetrotters, DCC, Karek, and The Grimch

Open message to members of The Dead (or self-acclaimed 'Goon'), any member of the Malton Globetrotters, DCC (whoever he's with at any given moment), Karek, and The Grimch

I'm writing this because Akule said it would be a good way to put you all on notice in case you decide to ignore the warning...

Stay off my user page, and do not troll here and harass me anymore anywhere.

Like the top says, if I want to listen to harassing, verbally abusive people directed specifically at me, I'd be on something like 4chan. And Grim_S, the only things I ever want to see on my user page from you better be in an official capacity, because your unofficial insulting, and commentary in spam form for the pure purpose of harassment are not welcome here anymore. Never were, actually, but now you're on notice about it.

If you don't like suggestions I make, that's cool. You can deal with it without the verbal attacks and coming onto my user page to spam it or (in Grimch's case) editting it. The sheer volume of comments I get from you guys makes it pretty clear that you're just doing this as, like Akule mentioned to me, a method of 'bugging the new guy/girl until he/she cracks.' Get a life and find better things to do with your time.

Any further harassment will be reported. Toodles :) --Tselita 14:25, 27 May 2008 (BST)

<Grim's Self-Congratulatory Pablum deleted>--Tselita 14:43, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Grim's unwelcome, un-official comments have been deleted as the drivel they are. And I see that in addition to your other numerous faults, you don't know how to read. --Tselita 14:34, 27 May 2008 (BST)

<More of Grim's unwelcome postings on my user page deleted, further showing that he knows how to type, but not how to read>--Tselita 14:43, 27 May 2008 (BST)

<Bzzt. More Grim posting on my user page deleted. :) > --Tselita 14:47, 27 May 2008 (BST)

I'd like to register my astonishment that such a dramafest managed to pass me right by. --brb, church ^{DORIS CGR U!} 14:34, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Well you weren't being a jerk and spamming my user page or trolling. Akule told me that I should write this sort of thing to prevent them from further vandalizing of my page and trolling. --Tselita 14:36, 27 May 2008 (BST)

See, if I'd known about all this chances are I would have joined in - which is why I'm so confused. --brb, church ^{DORIS CGR U!} 14:39, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Hehe, it's okay. Maybe next time that a bunch of dweebs decide to waste a load of their time spamming and namecalling just to harass me, you'll get the memo :) As of now, you're as pure as the driven snow in my book. My apologies if you are the type that revels in being seen as a rebel instead. --Tselita 14:42, 27 May 2008 (BST)

P'raps. I haven't really encountered you before, and you appear to be intelligent upon first inspection, so I dunno whether I'd be able to work up the motivation to insult you. Plus, I'd feel dirty as hell siding with Karek and Grim. --brb, church ^{DORIS CGR U!} 14:49, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Also, keep up the good work WRT deleting dickish posts. It drives people - particularly people like Grim (you know what I mean) - absolutely insane. ^_^ --brb, church ^{DORIS CGR U!} 14:49, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Hehe thanks. I know. The fact that he's going nuts over my deleting his posts is expected. Pathetic of him, but expected. Especially since he must be waiting at his computer hoping for me to post - he commented on this almost immediately. Like a stalker or something. So sad, too bad. --Tselita 14:52, 27 May 2008 (BST)

<Grim's continued unwelcome postings on my user page deleted. If you're not posting as a sysop, buzz off.> --Tselita 14:45, 27 May 2008 (BST)

Holy Jesus FN Christ.... How the fuck did I miss this.... so what did Grimchie do?--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 04:39, 31 May 2008 (BST)

Basically, first he started by writing huge amounts of spam on my user page with the stated objective of making it unreadable (he out and out stated this in fact).

Then he pulled a suggestion which I was edit-conflicted by while finishing it up (with only one vote on even).

Next, he decided to try his hand at true hypocrisy by editing my page without my allowing it because he doesn't like the formatting rules I use for my Discussion page (as if his own requirements arent insane enough, and ignoring the fact that other people have the same formatting rules as me - for example, Iscariot, who I actually got the idea from since that format is easier to follow for long spammy novel posts (yes, I'm aware I make long posts as well, but I don't mind if they're broken up as long a you sign after each break and indent properly).

After that, he decided to try to declare me a vandal (of my own user page), failed in that attempt, and started whining on my user page when I put this new section up.

So I kept deleting his drek until he spazzed out and finally quit trying to spam me. --Tselita 22:07, 2 June 2008 (BST)

O.o--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 16:44, 3 June 2008 (BST)

Quite the show you missed. Hopefully there won't be a repeat --Tselita 16:47, 3 June 2008 (BST)

Oh, btw, join RedRum...--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 02:36, 5 June 2008 (BST)

Pablum spewed by the Woefully Inept

(Just Zambargh, not 73 or Zardoz)

re: my feelings

Yes Tselita, you're well within your rights to delete somethng that dumb on your user page, you're also well within your rights to take it to arbitration if it doesn't stop. From my experiance, most of the wiki isn't actualy made up of slightly creepy perverts and you realy should not have to put up with, lets face it sexual harrrasment. We wouldn't ask someone who was black to put up with being mocked cos of it, and women here shouldn't be mocked on the basis that they're women. I'd delete this neandethall trolling and take it to arbitration if it happens again. You shouldn't have to put up with this.--Seventythree^Talk 09:08, 22 April 2008 (BST)

Okay done- just deleted it and raised the IQ level on my user page by 50 points. Thanks for the info 73 :) --Tselita 16:06, 22 April 2008 (BST)

Btw, if I do have to take this to arbitration (he's posted on pretty much every one of my votes calling me stupid and cursing me out and stuff, but it's doing the user page thing that miffed me a bit), I'm not exactly sure how to go about it. *shakes her head* Ain't no love for girl gamers... well... except for pervies... and who wants that sort of love. ewwwwwww --Tselita 16:23, 22 April 2008 (BST)

Ah, yeah, it's a bugger alright. Women don't exactly get a fair deal on the net - I should imagine quite a few users on this wiki are women who just don't say so cos of the negative attention it can atract, and this wiki is actualy pretty good in comparison to some areas. If you need to take this to arbitration I will be more than happy to sort out the case for you, and if you trawl through your talkpage history you can always find the junk he posted again. I personaly wouldn't though, unless it happens again. You can't realy stop him taking the piss out of you on votes (though if he is not providing justification and blatantly only trolling with his votes a sysop or someone else may very well remove them) but you shouldn't have to put up with unwnated junk on your user page - that's what the arbitration ruling, if there was one would solve.--Seventythree^Talk 18:30, 22 April 2008 (BST)

Yeah... I guess so. I don't really care enough to do much about this for now. And I know that other women play Urban Dead. One of my coworkers plays it too, so that's at least 1 other person :) That's the thing, his votes aren't even making any sense, and he seems to have been going out -only- for the suggestions I did. It's like 'This is stupid, I hate you!' and 'What's wrong with you?' is his primary method of voting... it's inane. :) Meh, whatever. It's hard for me to really get myself that worked up over this. I just wanted to make sure I didn't have to keep his little juvenile stuff on my user page. :) Oh speaking of which ,one of the things he voted on were already past the 2 week window when he voted and should be put in peer review (Sledge Hammer). When does that happen? Thanks in advance. --Tselita 18:49, 22 April 2008 (BST)

Well, cycling suggestions realy isn't my area, but I'll take a look. He could have made the bset argumet for or agaignst in his vote, but if it's past the two weeks period, it doesn't count. To be honest if he realy does insist on voting like that don't bother replying. If someone is trolling, the worst thing you can do is pick a fight. --Seventythree^Talk 18:52, 22 April 2008 (BST)

I am black, brb a/a --אֲבִיּוֹנָה 04:31, 24 April 2008 (BST)

Thread is made of and LOL.--  ^Z_Z 08:37, 28 April 2008 (BST)

Is it a bad thing that I actually like that smiley? Gonna save it for responses to you when you put bad pickup lines on my discussion page. --Tselita 20:28, 27 April 2008 (BST)

Ooops sorry Zardoz, thought that was zambargh. You didn't sign. --Tselita 03:27, 28 April 2008 (BST)

(Grimch and members of The Malton Globetrotters - not SeventyThree)

Couple of issues

Hows about you show me the same courtesy i showed you and respond to my post on Talk:Suggestions. I mean, yeah, its long, but you write long posts too, and it deals with a whole bunch of assumptions you have made as well as making a whole pile of rebuttals. Im only posting here now because you appear to have come and gone today without taking the time to answer it and, given some of the stuff in your post above, even read it.
Now, there was your little dummy spit on my talk page, accusing me of power abuse and holding some form of grudge against you, the first is just plain incorrect as the suggestion was removed within the rules and these rules are enforcable by all people, the protection of the page being a scheduled protection that was approved more than a year ago. So no power abuse there. As for the accusation of a grudge... lemme check... Accessing Grudge files... Files not found.
The only possible thing i can think of for you seeming to think i have some sort of grudge against you is that im actually disagreeing with you and writing, heavens forfend, longer posts than you when responding (The latest being 2 pages long), and maybe my suggestion that you learn how to utilise paragraphs when writing posts for ease of reading.
Anyhoo, to correct a misconception in the above (Which you wouldnt have made had you read the response i wrote you on the nailgun suggestion on talk), the reason only the dead are voting against you is because the zombie groups decided, a long time ago, that this wiki is a survivor centric trenchcoater circlejerk and want nothing to do with the place. Also, another one for free, it wasnt 50-60 people who liked your suggestion, its 50-60 accounts, or which 30-40 are provably legit, and the others were either so old their checkuser data had expired or accounts with suspiciously similiar contribs lists that we werent able to match to the other 5 proxies the flooders used. Odds are a lot more were socks but we couldnt prove it definitively with checkuser given its retarded one week limit. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 08:09, 21 May 2008 (BST)

• Nah Grimch, there's nothing wrong with you disagreeing with my ideas, no matter how insulting you aer doing so. And 59 bona fide people liked the suggestion. There were 13 sock puppet people, because the last I had seen the total had been 72. Simple math, Grimch. 59+13=72. That means 59 actual people. 13 moronic cheaters. Then again I also have an entire group dedicated to opposing my ideas, so I pretty much count their votes as one big one, since most of them don't bother to give a rational reason for the kills. The Malton Globetrotters counted for a full half of the kill/spam votes. Yep, wide variation of people against my idea.
• You, on the other hand, are different from the Globetrotters in only one respect - you have sysop powers, but not much in the way of self-control. You did abuse your power by striking the suggestion, just because I got edit conflicted while finishing up my suggestion. I expected more from a sysop, but I'm not totally surprised - you haven't exactly impressed me with your "impartiality" so far.
• As for why The Dead vote against me, it's the same reason they joined the game - because they get off from griefing people. Unfortuntaely for them, I'm not a pubbie - I don't give a crap what they think, or what happens to my characters in the game. Heck, 2 of my characters -are- zombies. All of them are dual naturists.
• Lots of people disagree with suggestions I make who I don't consider to make it personal, because they didn't do what you did with the striking of the suggestion from an edit conflict. Me and Zardoz disagree frequently, as do me and Pesatyel. I get along well with both of them. Iscariot has never, ever voted keep on anything I've ever written, and I still consider him to be a swell guy. I don't think you're against me because you disagree with me. I think you're against me because you act like a griefer who happens to be a sysop. And I'm also not a major fan of trenchcoaters, but I don't see them as any different than the griefers who infest a large amount of the zombie populace, and almost ALL of the Dead and Malton Globetrotters (basically the same people).
• And before you decide to label me, I like several zombie groups -and- PKer groups - Feral Undead is the best, and Bullgod rocks. I don't mind RRF that much though I think Death culting makes no sense. Red Rum is awesome, and I might join them with a character. I'm told Philosophe Knights are quite intelligent non-griefer PKers, and from what I've seen, I don't doubt it. And I think the Heathers rock. I'm considering MoB as well for my unaffiliated zombie. Oh, and for someone who seems to get off on telling others that they don't understand the game, your reasoning on votes have shown a disturbing lack of knowledge of a game you've been playing for years. I've been playing for only 4 months, yet I seem to be able to keep up with your spam-fests quite well. Probably because I'm smart, so that makes up for the lack of experience - I hope you're not too intimidated by a smart woman. Maybe I'll even make a guide like you did. Since you hate trenchcoaters so much, I'll probably make a guide on 'How to Hold a Fort' or 'Urban Warfare + River Tactics - How to Make Zombies fight for every inch' - but would something ilke that iritate you too much, since it would conflict with the Grimch's view of 'Let the zombies have a cakewalk' - since apparently anything Grim says must be taken as the Gospel?
• If you want me to give you respect, give me respect as well. i will not respect anyone who belittles me or tries to treat me like I'm an idiot. In fact, you make me think even less of you. Treat me with courtesy and respect, and you will get the same in return - I assure you of that. --Tselita 06:01, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Le sigh. You havent a clue how this works. 13 socks spread over 7 proxies. Presumably all by the same person, meaning he hit the same proxy for some sa couple of times over. There were another dozen at least highly suspcious people we couldnt definitively prove were sock puppets despite them having the following:

• Identical user page structure.
• Identical contribs lists
• extremely similiar opinions

13 was how many we could provably nail, and a whole bunch probably were, but since they were done on other proxies we couldnt link them. Others came early enough in the suggestion that by the time i checked, the checkuser data on them had expired (Wasnt stored anymore. No results in search).

The dead vote against you because your suggestions are stupid. dismissing them as plain greifers is a disservice to both them and the things they do. It is the position held by a large number of people, true, but even the large number can be wrong, which is the case here because they dont look behind the facade and see just whats going on. Nothing they have done here indicates an attempt to destroy the wiki. Yes they like to rile people up (Hitler family, DARIS of old, which i thought was pretty cool), and their over the toppishness generally does that. And you know what? When they do it they find all the people who take the thing far too seriously and get a rise out of them because those people are idiots.

Oh my god... not sure if you're gullible or just ignorant, Grim. They've expressly stated that they wanted to destroy the wiki (with the pubbies own rules, they said, on their own forum). As for riling people up, yep... sexist comments, and now antisemitic comments. Truly they are a boon to the wiki. You are truly laughable. --Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Now, im going to deal with two things at once here. You said you want me to treat you with respect and courtesy, and yet you said that they are only voting against you because they like to greif people. Ive actually read their arguments and they make not only a great deal of sense, but several can even be corroborated with outside evidence that proves your idea was based on a faulty premise, at which you just repeated your then debunked claim ad nauseam in an attemopt to silence them, and when they wouldnt go away you resorted to the wall of text. You are resorting to the argumentum ad hominem twice here, first in accusing them of all voting against you because they are greifers, and the second in dismissing their claims based on that absurd notion. Its fallacious reasoning, and were i in a position of power to do so, id make you sit in the corner for a few hours to think about it while writing "I will not dismiss the arguments of people simply because of who they are" a hundred times on the blackboard. You want respect? Earn it. But if you are going to treat them like shit, then dont expect them to lick the mud off your boots and call it chocolate.

Actually I couldnt care less if you gave me respect or not. All I'm saying is if you don't give me respect, don't expect any from me, sysop status or not. Half of their arguments are nothing more than insults, and most of the rest state things that I explicitly explain in the suggestions themselves, often with links and video to prove and explain the reasoning. I'm amazed you can 'assume' a bunch of people are sock puppets but your sleuthing skills are not keen enough to realize that the group votes (as one of the sock puppets seemed to say) against the suggestor, not the suggestion. And I dismiss their arguments because they are moronic arguments, made in a hivemind mentality, sometimes with sexist overtones, usually with an insult or two thrown in. Too bad you're not as diligent guarding the wiki against The Dead/Malton Globetrotters' own 'fallacious reasoning' (such as 'Stay in the kitchen!' or 'Nailguns shouldnt have more encumberance than toolboxes!') I actually consider it a badge of honor that they're so intimidated by suggestions I make that they need to group mass vote against them in order to even get it down to undecided. Pathetic attempts. Just like your defense of them. --Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Incidentally, the wall of text defense you were using on them, where you were pretty much typing a lot of crap without really saying all that much is what spurred me into this debate in the first place, responding with my own walls of text, with far more content and far less filler than you brought to the discussion.

heh, trust me Grim, most of what you say is pure drivel. You've got a majorly deluded sense of self-importance on a wiki of all things, not to mention by far the most anal person I've ever had any sort of dealings with - and I deal with Type A personality lawyers on a regular basis. --Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

But i digress, your wall of text response, is a rather silly defense mechanism against the skilled debater, They can just read through it and pick the highlights to respond to with a breif post, or they can do the same to you, explaining their points in exquisite detail simply to bury you in an avalanch of verbiage that puts yours to shame. Personally, i opted for the latter. Also, as you did with the goons, you are ignoring arguments made against anything you say and repeating your debunked argument ad nauseam. Here is a helpful debate tip. When someone offers a rebuttal, you need to attack and invalidate that rebuttal to the extent that your point is once again valid. Simply putting your hands over your ears and singing loudly wont make it go away, at best it makes you look like an imbecile.

Said by the person who proudly claims to be more verbose than I. Your 'verbiage' doesn't put me to shame. It just shows you're far more long-winded than I could ever hope to be. Congratulations on that. I'm actually quite willing to entertain arguments against my ideas - as long as they're rational and defensible. With maybe one or two exceptions, most of the Goons' votes were pathetic and blatantly obviously made because I made the suggestion, not because of the suggestions themselves. --Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

As i said before, if you want to be respected and shown courtesy, show it in return and you will find wonders unceasing, until then, if you want to just ignore points against you dont be suprised if the arguments turn to flames, and given both mine and the goons skill in that particular area, dont be suprised if you end up as a charred stain on the suggestions page.

And again, I don't care about respect from haters like the Goons, or pompous blowhards like yourself - you've more than proven that the one thing you seem good at doing is being a flamebaiter. --Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

What i did with striking your suggestion is what the rules say to do. Once someone else has voted, the suggestion is considered in its final form and any alterations to it result in removal (Excepting clarification notes). You are the one seeing a personal conflict here where there is none. Whoop de fucking doo. Get off your high horse and smell the roses. Anyone, even someone as thick as you are trying to make yourself out as, can remove a suggestion for editing mid vote. If you think it was a sysop ability abuse, take me to misconduct. You will have an unpleasant suprise. Of course, it will be another frivolous and baseless case against me, which will show up on my record here (Which i suggest you examine before accusing me of having no self control in future. It helps to have a clue when talking about things of such import).

Aw poor Grim - everyone's against you. Seriously, is this wiki the only thing in your life? I don't bother taking you to misconduct for the same reason I don't take DrPain to misconduct for making antisemitic slurs against me, or Zambargh vandalizing my user page, or downinflames trying to delete a ton of votes, or Riseabove and Gardenator using cartoons depicting me as votes and sigs -- it's a waste of my time. I do this wiki stuff mainly in my spare time when work is slow. The concept of taking this stuff to 'arbitration' like it actually matters is ridiculous to me. I've been in real arbitrations and mediations, in real courts, judged by real magistrates. I'm even a certified mediator in two states (Ohio and New York). The wiki version of arbitration is a joke. --Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Let me make this perfectly clear: Unless i am posting on a page in the UDwiki:Administration namespace or on a persons talk page laying down something with the header "Warning" or "banned" i am posting as a regular user. I removed the sysop tag from my signature specifically to avoid that common misconception. Reread the suggestions rules some time and find out just how wrong you are, but since you apparently have an allergy to common sense, i sincerely doubt you will do so. My money is that you will skimread this, then go to misconduct and report me, then act all hurt when im found not guilty because i didnt do anything wrong. To borrow a turn of phrase from Kid sinister, "it is exceedingly clear that there is a major problem going on here, and it is located directly between your ears where it is beyond the scope of this administration's abilities to fix."

Nah, I read it quite thoroughly. Not going to report you because you're perfectly within your rights to be obtuse. Most of your VERY LONG post here has been nothing but claiming how great you and your long-winded replies are. And the idea that you'd think I'd be hurt from anything in a wiki... well.... I think you're projecting how you feel about the importance of wikis much more than how I feel about them. All you've shown me is frankly... you're a real loser in real life and this wiki's the one place you can feel important. --Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Your ad hominems regarding the majority of the zombie populace, the zombie populace i have repeatedly told you avoid this wiki like the plague because they see it as a survivor clusterfuck (Ask Jorm, leader of the MOB some time, or other horde leaders). Back to repect and courtesy again, you slur an entire section of the community, and expect me to give you even the slightest iota of respect and courtesy? How about you practice what you preach hypocrite?

Actually I specifically omit certain zombie groups from my views of zombies in general. Most zombie groups actually. I don't omit the Dead from it because they're griefers, proudly so in fact. I havent said anything about MOB because I have never interacted with them, and the only stuff I've heard about them from others have been good. Zombie users do not avoid the wiki nearly as much as you claim, because I've seen a large number of zombie players on it. Many of whom I actualyl respect. The Malton Globetrotters and the Dead are not ones I respect. Neither are you. And once again.... going to say this in bold so you can read this through the huge novel you keep posting to me... I Do not care if you, Grimch, respect me. Or if the Dead or Malton Globetrotters respect me. Since you guys started this with the insults though, I do not back down. And I will not treat you with respect while any of you disrespect me. Once you guys stop acting like infants, that view I have of you can change. I doubt any of The Dead, Malton Globetrotters, or you, Grimch, will stop though, so I doubt that'll be happening any time soon.--Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Also, FYI, my position has never been for zombie cakewalk, that is your own fiction and i appreciate it if you kept my name off it. My opinion has always been for a balanced game. Survivor buffs will not balance the game. You dont appear to understand this. But if you want to keep slandering me, feel free to keep it up. Im not the one who looks like an idiot, and the only people who will take it seriously are those who have despised me for years, so have fun.

Reading your guide, 'Zombie cakewalk' the impression you leave. Zombies are the antagonists. Survivors are the protagonists. Don't be surprised more emphasis is given to the protagonists. Oh and by the way, read the definition of slander since you loooove flinging that around 1) It's spoken. 2) Truth is an absolute defense. --Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

I am not interested in your respect. I am merely interested in your responding to my fucking posts in a sane sensible manner, unfortunately, as i have detailed above, this seems to be a task you find impossible. Is it by any chance "that time of the month", or are you always this deranged? --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 09:21, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Third or fourth time you've said 'you're not interested in my respect' in this diatribe of yours. I do respond to your own 'walls of spam', when I have free time at work. And I'm not interested in your respect either so long as you disrespect me. Ah... and thanks for showing that in addition to being a blowhard, you're also a mysoginist with the 'time of the month' crack. My, do you truly fear the almighty uterus that much? No, it's not my time of the month - I'd ask you the same, but you're a guy, not a girl, so don't have a hormonal excuse. I have to assume it's just that you're a nutcase instead. --Tselita 10:04, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Response coming shortly, im just sorting all your crap out of my post. Breaking up my post destroys the run of the post and i could make a very good case against you there for impersonation for doing so. Im not going to, because despite my being an abrasive and now, since you started it by accusing me of all sorts of shit yesterday, abusive arsehole idon t actually hate you, though you are making some pretty good cases as to why i shouldnt like you. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 10:34, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Change posts on your own discussion page Grimch. I like mine to be a certain way. I don't care if breaking up your post with responses from me upsets your anal-retentive nature - this is my page and I'll handle it like I want it to look. Don't edit MY page if I don't ask you to. I signed each of my responses in the 'breaks' on your post, so no one can say I'm impersonating you. It's my page, and with your insanely long posts, the easiest way for me to respond to each of the thousand things you post is to take it one-by-one. My page - my rules, just like your page - your rules. Unless you're a vandalizer on top of everything else. --Tselita 10:44, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Tselita, to start with we're talking about a tricky issue here. It may well be your talkpage and you do have a case for wanting your rules to be followed, but Grim_s also has a right not to have his posts edited. I honestly would not like to say for certain who is in the right in this, and I'm fairly certain some pretty genuine cases could be made for both points...... HOwever on the balance of things it is considered polite not to interrupt another person's post as you have done, even if you are considerate enougth to sign your posts. If you find yourself tackling a large block of text, try replying with bullet points to each point made, it's what I would do anyway. On the exact nature of your debate with Grim_s, please do not dismiss him as another troll or whatever, in spite of his somewhat abrasive manner he does tend to have the best interests of the wiki at heart and is not, in fact overly hostile to people, at least no more so than many other users. While me and Grim_s haven't always seen eye to eye on some issues he has always had the courtesy to think out what he says thouroughly, and always tends to be quite polite. He's also been around a long time, and knows his stuff. It might be a good idea to listen to what he has to say. (Having said that, the "Time of the month" gag was a little below the belt Grim_s) Tselita, I'm willing to back you up, as I have, and will back up any user if you are being unfairly harrassed or are on the loosing side of a grudgematch you didn't start and didn't want to be in. I can't realy support you though if you accuse one of the oldest sysops on the wiki of persecuting you on his talkpage!--Seventythree^Talk 17:19, 22 May 2008 (BST)

73, Grim's wiki page is rather anal retentive, but he has a right to make it however he wants, including moving around my posts on his web page to conform to how he wants it to be (like he's done already). I want the same rules to apply for mine. None of this different rules for different folks stuff.

Btw, just to be specific, I didn't edit anything he said. I responded to everything, piece by piece, in a way which was easy for ME to read. On my own user page. While signing it so that people know which is me speaking and which is him. I've seen other people do it on their pages as well. I want to be able to actually read what I'm seeing on my own user page, without having to conform to Grim's rules for how everything must be done. All hail Grim. The way I choose to do that is to break it up into paragraphs for me to be able to respond easily. I don't do this on any page other than my own page. And the vandalism welcome page which I was shown when I first came here said specifically DO NOT EDIT OTHER PEOPLE'S USER PAGES - THAT IS VANDALISM. Yes, I know Grim's an old hat on this wiki, but I think he's also not used to anyone actually standing up to him - just because he's old doesn't mean he's right and that's clearly obvious. Robert Byrd has been in the senate forever, but that doesn't make him less of an idiot either. Grim's been anything -but- polite to me. But I don't dismiss him as just another troll. I feel he's got a swelled head though and is full of himself. I do feel he's abused his position here by editting my page without my permission. He could be Kevan for all I care - I don't want him editting my page - period. If he does it again I'll just delete his posts from my user page, since I'm able to do that according to the wiki rules as well, like when Zambargh started posting requesting that I send him naked pictures of myself (since he 'doesn't like the uggos'). I do feel, 73, that you are one of the fairest sysops I've seen, and I think you're way diplomatic to Grim, giving him the courtesy because he's been a sysop so long. But to me, he's just another vandal if he does the editting again, until someone shows me that Grim actually owns the wiki and is above the rules. --Tselita 18:37, 22 May 2008 (BST)

I will also say this - Grim is more than welcome to delete any of my posts in response to what he says about me on his user page. I consider him to be beneath me intellectually while he lowers himself and engages in the sort of practice he's done on my page, and I feel no need to respond to him anymore on his page, so you don't have to worry about me accusing Grim of persecuting me on his user page. Besides, most of his long-winded posts tend to be about him praising himself and his "eloquent verbiage." Though I would like to point out that, like you said, I did not start this fight. Not with Grim, not with the Dead/Malton Globetrotters. But I don't roll over for anyone. Especially not someone who thinks that if they throw enough spam at me, couched with mysoginistic slams, I'll throw up my hands and give up. Doesn't happen with me.

To recap - if he edits my page again, I delete his posts on my page every time he decides to talk to me with disrespect and condescension and insults. QED. --Tselita 18:50, 22 May 2008 (BST)

btw, just to make this point clear as well - I don't hate Grim any more than he hates me. I don't know the guy in RL, and I wouldn't bother to expend the emotional effort to actually hate someone who I only know through words on a wiki, which I write on in my spare time between memos and filing for my boss. I don't like him though, at all, and I feel he's a condescending, bullying hypocrite who I am not even the slightest bit intimidated by, despite his threats to me. --Tselita 19:02, 22 May 2008 (BST)

People resorted to the sexist comments because arguing with you is like having someone shove their fist up your ass and mold your shit into a dinosaur - painful and pointless. The negative votes that are all just short offensive comments are because they said all of the reasons the suggestion is fucking stupid on the talk page and their talk pages and other peoples talk pages and every where else you have been chasing down people to whine on about this idea.

And you really shouldn't piss off Grim. Not only is he one of the best and fairest sysops on here (and believe me I know because I've argued with almost all of them) he seems to be rather popular with the Dead/TMG. Just sayin'

To correct you - we wanted to destroy the game not the wiki. Please stop making shit up. The wiki is a survivor pubbie circle jerk of retarded proportions that breeds fucknut ideas like new weapons and netnanny. (oh another new sig)- DCC 04:10, 22 May 2008 (CPT)

Actually people resort to sexist comments because they are mysognistic morons who realize they're outclassed in rational discourse. Your entire first paragraph is lame and shows your inherent idiocy which I've come to expect.

As for pissing off Grim, the fact that the Dead and Malton Globetrotters are popular with them only reinforces my belief that you guys are in the same boat intelligence-wise (or lack thereof). It doesn't make me think more highly of Grim that he has a bunch of sexist, antisemitic griefing twerps following him. It's really lame and pathetic that you seem to think he needs protecting from me so that you can try to defend him. Nice threat by the way, why should I care if the Dead support him - I don't care whether any of my characters are alive or dead anyway... feel free to waste your AP attacking them.

Lastly, I'm not making up anything about the Dead's intentions. You wanted to destroy both the game -and- the wiki. I read it on your own forums when you guys stated 'we're breaking the game, we can do the same to the wiki. We're smarter than a bunch of wiki rules lawyers.' Somewhere along the same area as how you guys wanted to 'reduce the survivor population to single digits (though some said to 2000 or less) before you then turned survivor and did the exact opposite. God, the amount of effort you guys put into trying to break a game, and you call other people names like 'pubbies?' Frankly you're all pathetic. Oh and hey... I've got an idea, if you hate the wiki so much, don't bother being on it. From what I see, the most active 'pubbies' on the wiki seem to be you guys. You definitely seem to get a lot more worked up about stuff on the wiki than any of the Urban Dead survivor players - even with it being only text, I can practically sense the veins in your forehead pulsating. --Tselita 22:28, 22 May 2008 (BST)

reading your posts give me nightmares

RAWR IM GONNA EAT YOU --#19 - DrPain ^TMG 04:22, 22 May 2008 (BST)

I'd delete this for the irrelevant drivel it is from a prepubescent moron, but the gif is sorta cool. Get back under your bridge, troll :) --Tselita 05:37, 22 May 2008 (BST)

C'mon, I think the RAWR IM GONNA EAT YOU is a giveaway that it's a joke. Girls never get our jokes... :( #147 - KaeseEs^TMG

If you're going to go the personal attack route, I've got some lovely things to say about your tribe. Thanks honey. --#19 - DrPain ^TMG 06:47, 22 May 2008 (BST)

I'm sure you do DrPainintheneck. You've made quite a few personal attacks in your votes on my suggestions already. Oh and 'my tribe'. Nice. Going to go the antisemite route now, are we? How unsurprising. --Tselita 07:02, 22 May 2008 (BST)

About DCC/X/DDT

(Note: Not Pesatyel or Zardoz)

What the hell is with this guy? I think the best thing to do is just ignore him, or maybe see if we can get him banned if he keeps acting like a jackass.--Pesatyel 08:10, 27 April 2008 (BST)

Been there - done that. *yawn*--דקק 18:28, 27 April 2008 (BST)

He's getting a little antsy from being a virgin living in his parents attic --Tselita 17:29, 27 April 2008 (BST)

TOTALLY TRUE! Or maybe I just don't think your suggestions are very balanced, well thought out, or ground breaking. But you aren't special. I'm also not fond of Swiers' suggestions either. --דקק 18:28, 27 April 2008 (BST) -- stricken from the record in order to keep in line with DCC's admission that he is a whiny virgin who lives in his parent's attic, which is why he's such a spaz --Tselita 19:39, 27 April 2008 (BST)

--אֲבִיּוֹנָה 20:44, 27 April 2008 (BST) note: it's considered bad form to just delete comments from one's talk page, especially if they are particularly unassuming, I would check the DHPD's talk page for more information

uh yeah... what I delete it because I have no clue what that means, plus the sysop I asked said I can delete stuff from -my own user page-. Let me know what it means and maybe I'll keep it on there without deleting it. Feel free to whine about it though. --Tselita 07:34, 28 April 2008 (BST)

LOL DUDE, you got TOLD. On the INTERNET no less! OMG!--  ^Z_Z 05:21, 28 April 2008 (BST)

No No - this is exactly how he responds when people criticize his suggestions, too. You can almost hear him going "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA" --דקק 04:37, 28 April 2008 (BST)

DCC, seriously from now on I'm referring to you simply as Winky the Wonder Squirrel. BTW, female. Not a he. I don't blame you for not knowing the difference since girls probably wouldn't come within 100 feet of you. It's the odor. Poor little munchkin. --Tselita 07:34, 28 April 2008 (BST)

BTW, female. Tselita, you write things like this and then wonder why people like Iscariot get on your case. Seems my advice fell on deaf ears.--  ^Z_Z 07:59, 28 April 2008 (BST)

You are forgetting the part where she has that she is 5 ft 5 and 115 lbs on her user page. She probably also has a tramp stamp of someone's name and tattoos of butterflies. But her opinion should be perfect since she is A GIRL ON THE INTERNET and the rest of us are just stupid boys. --דקק#99 21:08, 29 April 2008 (BST)

Nah, I don't do tattoos. And I would never say 'the rest of you are stupid boys'. I respect people who disagree with me but can do so without swearing like a pre-pubescent hyperactive Turrents child who missed his dose of Ritalin. Of course, that description leave you out, Winky. Labels like stupid need to be earned. Lucky you, you've more than earned it, Winky the Wonder Squirrel. I'm not surprised you have such a fixation on every word I say... I mean how often does a girl actually respond to you, even if in a less-than-nice manner, instead of ignore you outright? No, your mom doesn't count, Winky. She wants you to get a job and get out of the attic by the way. --Tselita 21:16, 29 April 2008 (BST)

Actually I don't mind Iscariot at all. He doesn't insult, his comebacks are witty and he hasnt ever 'gotten on my case'. The worst he's done is tell me what suggestions are dupes, which is actualy quite helpful. He's actually made me decide to join the Feral Undead with a zombie character in order to possibly abandon some of my perceptions about zombie players. Overall, Iscariot has been very helpful. When I say he's my arch nemesis, I'm joking. Winky the Wonder Squirrel, however, is an idiot. And anyone who swears at me and namecalls doesn't deserve anything less than my treating them in kind. You'll note I don't say this sort of stuff to you, right? You haven't gone and cursed me out and called me names. The reason is because you haven't gone down to Winky's immaturity level yet so I still talk to you like you're a reasonable human being, even if you disagree with me about things. And I'll continue to so long as you stay civil like you've been until now. Not that I actually -care- what people think, especially on a wiki, but it's always nice to be able to talk reasonably with people. I'm just not a pushover, that's all - if a person thinks they can curse me out and I'll just fold, they're wrong. --Tselita 08:18, 28 April 2008 (BST)

Maybe you should just forget about it. You're never going to get civility from DCC and co. --Nitro378 ^{T JNL} 08:30, 28 April 2008 (BST)

Yes, I know. I've given up expecting anything close to civility, or even rationality or sanity, from Winky the Wonder Squirrel :) --Tselita 08:33, 28 April 2008 (BST)

Fair enough. I've made some over-arching statements without getting into the nitty-gritty of the situation. My personal feeling is that fighting fire with fire on the internet is risky proposition and a waste of time but this is your talk page and you would be the ultimate judge of that. Cheers!--  ^Z_Z 08:37, 28 April 2008 (BST)

I appreciate you saying that Zardoz --Tselita 08:45, 28 April 2008 (BST)

Why?

The word moderator is a misleading term to the actual position of a System Operator. The term moderator implies someone who is impartial, mild-mannered, ect, however this is not necessarily true of all of the Sysops all of the time on this wiki. As of such many people (especially newbies) may be disappointed when an Sysop is not moderate.

Xoid said:

The whole 'mod' thing was a misnomer. We've never had the power to moderate. The fact that arb. is a requirement to deal with people name-calling each is proof of this.

By calling moderators System Operators it would potential reduce some of the drama and unreasonable expectations that is caused from this misunderstanding.

---

Sysops are regular users that are just "more trusted" with functions that maintain the operation of the wiki. They are not babysitters and they do not have to like you. It isn't really a "burn" to call them biased or part of a group. You seem to have this mistaken notion about what a sysop is. I hope that link and explanation clears things up. --– Nubis ^NWO 01:53, 7 June 2008 (BST)

You're not biased because you're a sysop. It's just the way you and Grimch act in general that makes you biased, as well as turning a blind eye to what the Goons do when targetting people (like me). The link is unnecessary and I don't really care to hear from you again. I don't care if you don't like me. I dislike that you side with admitted griefers though and you count yourself as one of them. --Tselita 02:49, 7 June 2008 (BST)

You can't get griefed in a player vs player game. Thats kinda the point of the game, you will die. You will die lots. You can't say one thing is griefing, such as The Dead pking people over and over, and another thing, such as barricading over and over is not griefing. If you are talking about the wiki obviously then disregard my previous statement.--KOOKY 16:02, 9 June 2008 (BST)

I was talking about the wiki, not the game. --Tselita 19:48, 11 June 2008 (BST)

Interesting Conversations with Interesting People

"Maybe I'm just a bad luck charm."

I think it was your good luck to come in when you did; there was never a more exciting time to play a survivor than from January to April of this year. It was the only period in the game's history where it actually felt like a zombie apocalypse and not a zombie annoyance. Now the ratio is turning back to survivors, which is how it is most of the time; zombie numbers usually hover around 35%. The game becomes a crashing bore for survivors unless you stay in the hot zones or if you enjoy piddling little turf wars between no-name trenchcoater groups. The undead in Malton have an old saying: "It's a few smart zombies against hordes of mindless survivors."

You're too smart to stay pro-survivor, Tselita!--Jiangyingzi 01:09, 11 May 2008 (BST)

He's right you know, Tselita. Pro-survivors get bored of going survivor-ish all the time. Take me for example. I changed my main from pro-survivor to PKer, then made a pro-survivor character and a zombie character. In fact...I believe there was a humorous suggestion on giving survivors brains...Maybe you should take a look. It's seems to be very close to true. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:57, 11 May 2008 (BST)

I might be less rampantly pro-survivor if some of the zombie players didn't vote with reasons which defied common sense or even actual video footage and government reports proving the weapon's effectiveness - (I'm not including players like you, Jiang, in this comparison... or you either Axe, because you're easily bribed, and I like a man who can be easily bribed - just kidding) for instance on my nailgun suggestion, a lot of people (mostly from The Dead, but also other dedicatedly 'pro-zombie' players and even a 'pro-survivor' player) said no because they didn't feel nailguns are able to be projectile weapons, or that they aren't deadly, or that they can't travel a far distance, or be accurate enough to be a good weapon. So I found actual video footage proving each of these points.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsQ_igHB_UY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMKnyjLSSC0&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pMDCWooyc8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAJCWlJ6TG0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLEFFt3grqM

And there are more. Many, many more videos available. When someone can not be convinced that something is accurate when I show the ability to use it to sharpshoot a can (a small target) from various distances, SKEET shoot with a nailgun (which is definitely a small target at a long distance), shoot a person from 20-30 feet away and hit them in the back on the second shot, show video footage of the aftermath of a nail being embedded in a person's leg and in their back, to the point that they can't even pull it out, and a news report of a teenager being murdered by a nailgun nail being shot into his heart.... then I really can't take the average UD player's intelligence (survivor OR zombie) into account. Heck gabdewolf voted kill because he said there's a safety latch that prevents nailguns from being fired like a gun. But he won't respond when I sent him the video (and he's a pro-survivor player, so he says... maybe he thought PKers would have too much fun with it). --Tselita 15:48, 12 May 2008 (BST)

I just also would like to point out that ironically, despite being as pro-survivor as I am in my suggestions, 2 of my 3 characters are zombies - and all 3 are dual nature so I'm not against killing survivors and participating in sieges against them. 2 of my characters have a lot more zombie skills than survivor skills. But I do agree that some survivors do not seem to act like they have brains, but that tend to be the more 'trenchie' ones. Zombies have their own version of this in the griefers, which are a lot more numerous than survivor griefers (and at least PKers tend to do it with flair - I love watching when a Red Rummer kills someone because it's always funny, or how the Heathers will employ others to kill for them. Very godfatherishmotherish --Tselita 15:52, 12 May 2008 (BST)

Technically, I never started accepting bribes until I first came in contact with you...for some odd reason. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 22:26, 13 May 2008 (BST)

What I'm essentially driving at is this (and fair warning, what follows is heavily opinionated): for the great majority of the time humans outnumber zombies by a 3:2 ratio, so survivors don't really need more stuff. They don't need new weapons or new skills or new anything because they're clearly doing just fine. Zombie players are vital to this game, and anyone who is concerned with the future of UD should commit themselves to finding ways to make zombie play more worthwhile and more engaging. When you give survivors new stuff, whether it's a true buff or just flavor, you reduce the zombie experience further by comparison. I wish you'd commit a bit more of your creativity to improving the zombie game instead of giving the overfed survivor populace even more toys to play with.

As for the Dead, while they've made a splash and all, they're really not representative of the zombie player base. There's so many of them that you're bound to get a few asshats, but some of them are turning out to be good players and cool people. Either way I expect the bulk of their group to flame out entirely in another month or two. The out-of-nowhere megahordes always do. Check out barhah.com for a better zombie cross section, especially the Ridleybank Resistance Front and Militant Order of Barhah areas.

By the by, are you familiar with the Median Battle Rating numbers? It's a breakdown of each weapon in the game by damage-per-AP rating, including search rates, and should be required reading for anyone making new weapon suggestions. You can check it out here: MBR.--Jiangyingzi 11:10, 19 May 2008 (BST)

Jiang, I really think you have me all wrong. The reason I make survivor suggestions is because I feel, honestly, that until they can hold even one building more than a day against a group of zombies who have half the number outside as zombies inside, that the multiple updates they've been given are enough and it's time to give Survivors a few updates as well. It's not out of some sort of hatred of zombie players. I have several zombie suggestion ideas that I'd like to make once I see the balance even out a bit more. By balance, I do not mean numbers - I mean the ability to hold buildings for any sort of period of time. Zombies can do it quite easily. For weeks or even longer. Survivors can't. Numbers are not an accurate telling of balance. Human players can include death cultists, PKers (who I admit are survivors but they can be just as dangerous to 'non PKer survivors' or even more so), and combat revived zombies from hostile non Dual Nature groups (like the Dead). Zombie numbers can include mrh cows and life cultists. Both sides' numbers can include throwaway zergs (though I honestly do think that generally zombies can get away with it more often than humans because of the anonymity (which I agree zombies must have for game balance reasons). Buildings being kept for any extended period of time. That's a good sign of survivor strength vs zombie strength. Right now I think there are only so many green suburbs because of the recent sieges at the forts, but that will probably change within a week at max. And I think the suburb map is currently very inaccurate from my most recent runaround.

As for The Dead.... I agree they are not representative. I like Feral Undead. I like what I've heard of some other groups as well like MoB(though I don't like what I heard of Extinction). And RRF, while I'm sure they're nice, aren't my cup of tea because of Death Cultists, which I don't tend to feel are as realistic in any large numbers, though I'm willing to be open minded about it, since I havent actually experienced any actual rudeness - just experienced their Gore Corps). I think the Big Bash was great, as well as Big Bash 2, though I do think the battle of pitneybank was not a victory by them, but rather a victory by updates. The Dead do have good players, I'm sure. I've only seen one person who I think is probably a mature player (Gardenator, who though I disagree with him at least conducts himself politely... most of the time), but I'm sure there are others who do as well. But a rather large portion of them are well... people who get off on griefing other players, basically. Or people who thrive on being able to act 'tough' due to the anonymity that the internet provides. DCC is one rather large example of this sort of mentality.

I haven't read that MBR, but i will now that you've shown me the link - thank you I appreciate that. Generally when I make weapon suggestions, I do the calculations in my head or rely on people from Talk:Discussion for help. For the Sledgehammer suggestion (which did get peer reviewed) I just based it on some quick averages in my head of what seemed fair. Most of the calculations for the nailgun were based on the calculations that Swiers did for the M-11 military pistol (which I decided not to do in lieu of the nailgun, since the nailgun doesn't nerf ammo and gun search rates). Most people agreed on talk:discussion that the M-11 numbers were well-balanced.

Hope you realize that I actually do respect people like you, who talk things out rather than namecall, quite a bit. And the Nailgun v2.0 idea is mainly grown out of your counter-suggestion - I think it will help a lot of newer players while not being some huge survivor buff for the middle and upper level survivors. --Tselita 15:17, 19 May 2008 (BST)

Zombies frequently take territory and win sieges by coordinated strikes; if you do a side-by-side of the AP required to remove barricades vs. the AP needed to construct them survivors actually have a staggering advantage. They just don't typically use it. Active caders working in shifts can and have held off sieges for weeks, however; see the first Battle of Blackmore, the RRF vs. the Dribbling Beavers in Santlerville, the first siege of Caiger, etc. As we speak the RRF has been stalled at Nichols for going on two weeks. Most buildings go down quickly because most survivors would rather kill zombies in the streets than maintain barricades. If the survivor population understood the metagame half as well as organized zombie players do their edge would be almost insurmountable, especially at the typical population ratio.

If there are no active caders, however, it's easy for even a few zombies to crack a building, and once a break-in gets big enough it's impossible to stop. That much is true. However, Urban Dead isn't a zombie vs. survivor turf war. Zombies need to be able to take buildings from survivors even when undead numbers are inferior, otherwise it would be even more frustrating to play a zombie...especially since zombies are so consistently outnumbered. It's a cornerstone of the zombie genre, and the horror genre in general, that human beings have no real security. Video games tend to upend this tenet because it's hard to sell a game based on running away (video game characters rarely retreat except in cutscenes), but UD is much more in the cinematic tradition. In serious zombie films you never beat the undead by superior firepower, and every safe house gets cracked before the credits roll. To survive you have to be quick, flexible in your thinking, and ready to move at a moment's notice. In short, the relative ease with which the undead seem to crack and take buildings is crucial to the game, both for genre and gameplay reasons.

While zombies can easily hold buildings, they rarely have much interest in doing so for very long. Zombies gain XP by eating humans, and you can't do that squatting in some ruin for ages. Even the RRF, one of the few hordes in the game to claim a particular territory, often deserts Ridleybank for months at a time.

My basic mindset is this: when I play a survivor I don't want to be secure. I want to flee the unstoppable zombie hordes and live another day. When the game looks like it does now, with 63% survivors, I can keep my Dual Nature alt alive almost indefinitely with little effort; there just aren't enough zombies to represent a real threat. PKers are a much larger issue to him than zombies, and that really bothers me. I should be more worried about zombies, seeing as it's a zombie apocalypse and all. But that's just me, I guess...I'm something of a genre purist.

As for the Gore Corps, I have little trouble believing a couple of dozen souls, in the midst of an apocalypse, might crack and decide to act against humanity. Really, I think the stress of being repeatedly zombified and revived should have us all bonkers by now; I can't imagine the human psyche is really designed to stand up to that kind of pressure. However, if death cultists aren't your cup of tea the MOB might be worth a look. The MOB was born out of RRFers who didn't agree with the formation of the Gore Corps. My third alt runs with them, and they're a bunch of fun.--Jiangyingzi 12:55, 20 May 2008 (BST)

Video games tend to upend this tenet because it's hard to sell a game based on running away

In serious zombie films you never beat the undead by superior firepower, and every safe house gets cracked before the credits roll. Actually, in most zombie movies, they try running away, and eventually are forced to take a stand. They tend to be able to hold out until close to the end where a few of them sacrifice themselves so the rest can escape. This is how I play the game. Urban Warfare mixed with River Tactics. Not pure river tactics like Grimch suggests, and not 'stand to the last man' like he very mistakenly thinks I do. I want to make the other side work for every inch of territory. And for zombies you are right - it is not a turf war. For survivors, it definitely is, because they need to not lose every NT building. That's how a total loss for survivors can occur. To be honest I can sort of see why The Dead have a goal of killing everyone - it's interesting to see if it can be done... my problem tends to be how rude they are about it in RL. Heck look on the talk:discussion page - the 'Malton Globetrotters' (basically just a subgroup of The Dead players who seem to be liking to troll my suggestions in particular (Dr Pain is an excellent example of this ashattery) - this is the level of immaturity I see with a vast majority of zombie players. Survivors have this too, especially with the trenchies, but immature survivor players tend to show it by ignoring any sense of tactics and strategy. Now there are a lot of good zombie players as well - but people like The Dead/Globetrotters tend to make them all look like jerks. They can't seem to debate rationally, so if you say something that goes against what they think, they break out the namecalling. Immature players=immature gameplay. I'll check out the MoB, but I already have a zombie in Feral undead. She's currently in Fort Perryn/Fort Feral. My other characters are unaffiliated, though my necrotech worker is going to be in zomcom when Airborne is back regularly, and the other one I havent decided. I -might- make a fourth character as a PKer but RL work's been really keeping me busy (I'm a legal secretary in a law firm and I go through periods of extreme business and extreme lack of work, depending on what cases the attorneys have open and at what stage they're at). --Tselita 17:00, 20 May 2008 (BST)

To survive you have to be quick, flexible in your thinking, and ready to move at a moment's notice. - I totally agree with this. But I also think survivors are supposed to make it hard for zombies to take every single building - there's a reason why most games with zombies don't have zombies as a playable character - survivors are the protagonists of any zombie movie. The reason - no matter how you alter the game, most zombie players are not going to be capable of playing -as- a zombie. They will play as a person who happens to have zombie powers. When they get combat revived, rather than them being 'freed of the curse', they have had an injection which takes away their superpowers. That is not playing zombies. That is playing X-men. Dual Nature and Opportunists are the exception to this rule.

In short, the relative ease with which the undead seem to crack and take buildings is crucial to the game, both for genre and gameplay reasons. - again, I agree. It won't be a zombie apocalypse if there are no zombies everywhere. But think of the word apocalypse as well. It means 'end of times'. End of times for who? Not for the zombies. End of times for the survivors. The survivors are the protagnists. The zombies are the antagonists (not an insult, it's just a cinematic and literary term).

While zombies can easily hold buildings, they rarely have much interest in doing so for very long. - Okay that part I have to disagree with. Ridleybank, Fort Perryn/Feral, Dunnell Hills - zombies do play where they like to keep territory. If they didn't, I'd have less trouble seeing the game as a non-turf war. Sure, survivors are not supposed to stay and fight to the last man. They're supposed to do hit (when the zombies break in) then run away if there are too many of them. They are supposed to run away, as you say. But zombies aren't supposed to care about territories. They're supposed to just be killing and eating the survivors.

Zombies gain XP by eating humans, and you can't do that squatting in some ruin for ages. - I agree, though I still see zombies squatting in buildings for ages. Check out Fort Perryn as an example (currently fort Feral) - be sure to read the grafitti made by the TRF (and I -love- Feral Undead... and Bullgod rocks so hard, but I don't think that any zombie group should be needing to squat in forts)

My basic mindset is this: when I play a survivor I don't want to be secure. I want to flee the unstoppable zombie hordes and live another day. - Well since I play dual nature, I don't really personally care if my character is alive or dead, but if I was trying to play a dedicated survivor, I'd consider it the most difficult thing in the game to do next to being a brain rotted dedicated survivor. :)

When the game looks like it does now, with 63% survivors, I can keep my Dual Nature alt alive almost indefinitely with little effort - I think the Dead are losing members, that might be why. If it's at 63% it might be time for me to make some of my zombie suggestions then, but as I've said before, I don't consider those numbers to be definitive of the balance - I consider territories in different hands the best way of telling. Numbers are frequently inaccurate because zombie counts might include a lot of mrh cows and a few life cultists, while survivor counts might include death cultists, combat revived dedicated zombies, zombie spies, and of course PKers (who are a threat to other survivors, not to zombies)

there just aren't enough zombies to represent a real threat. PKers are a much larger issue to him than zombies, and that really bothers me. - it bothers me too. If survivors didn't have to worry so much about PKers, I probably would be very pro-zombie as well. But since PKer groups and zombie groups frequently have the same goal (killing survivors), I tend to see the survivors still as the besieged group. And don't get me wrong, I like some PKers (the non griefer types, like Red Rum and I've heard good things about Philosophe Knights and a couple of others), but I think PKing should be the exception rather than the rule, as should death culting and ZKing. Unfortunately you can't tell players how they should play.

I should be more worried about zombies, seeing as it's a zombie apocalypse and all. But that's just me, I guess...I'm something of a genre purist. - I'm still not worried about zombies, but it might be a side effect of how certain people have treated me in Talk:Discussion. Just talking to you makes me a lot more sympathetic to zombies, to be honest. But then I get a earful from people like DCC or Dr Pain or Riseabove or whatever, and the sympathy goes out the door usually. I'll think about everything you've said to me (though I still think I should get the nailgun idea passed before I make the zombie suggestions in voting). But I'll put them in talk:discussion for now and see what happens. --Tselita 17:00, 20 May 2008 (BST)

Hi

Just saying hi, I would also like to say that I did put something on the discussion page you told me to put some input on, just forgot to tell you about it. I believe it was the shot gun one am not sure. Anywho; like I said on the talk page for your suggestion I usually vote keep on most suggestions so if you go to make another suggestion and it gets killed to death contact me if you want to work on it in a talk page, and would like my input again. --Jamie Cantwel3 04:00, 5 April 2008 (BST)

Okay Jamie, and thanks :) It looks like it's going to get killed. BTW, I made a sledgehammer suggestion, 13 keeps so far, and only 5 kills, 2 of which are weak kills and none are particularly moving reasons :). Feel free to chime in, and if you'd like to help me with a shotgun limit/ammo thing 2.0 thing that's cool. I'm also making a few more shotgun ideas, one with Hhal, and another on my own since my Sawed OFf Shotgun doesn't seem like it will get through talk:discussion (some people pointed out some rather logical flaws in the idea, which is making me want to come up with a new idea which I'll be posting in the next couple of days.--Tselita 01:13, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Please when I write something in your talk page put the reply in my talk page.--Jamie Cantwel3 07:33, 10 April 2008 (BST) edit: Also; I voted keep on this, Suggestion:20080406 Sledge Hammer. Been at work all week so this was the first time I got to see it.--Jamie Cantwel3 07:39, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Well, that is just a little rude don't ya think? I make time to finish the conversations I start/am involved in... Oh my, I am off my user page right now. Would you like me to come talk you on your page as well? I would hate to make you click too many buttons and sh@t. --Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 07:44, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Sorry, what's the protocol on replies to stuff written in my talk page? I thought it was to respond in my talk page as well. Please remember I've been doing this for only about 2 weeks. Thanks for the Keep btw. --Tselita 08:06, 10 April 2008 (BST)

As far as I know, there is no real protocol for responding on your page.. I know it is polite to respond to peple who left messages on your page and POLITE to check up on the messages you left on other's pages. Just me though.. Oh ys, there is a gazillion word hangman puzzle w/your name all over it.. :) --Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 08:11, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Okay well I just left Jamie a response on his talk page. Wouldn't want to be impolite to him - he's been pretty nice.--Tselita 08:15, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Oh and man... speaking of the sledge hammer suggestion, karek started going sort of ballistic in the discussion page for sledge hammer. He really needs to take a step back. he's gone from 'liking the idea but wanting it changed so zombies can use it as a mega-weapon' to thinking it's a 'crap suggestion'. Logical arguments... consistency .... not really his things, are they... --Tselita 08:15, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Ah, Karek is cool.. just unique.--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 08:16, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Nah, I just have my own way of doing things I'm a lot less pissy outside of suggestions most of the time, but generally if it's in the suggestions namespace it's best to not respond to me because I dislike it when people don't understand why I'm saying something, it never turns out good.--Karek^maps?! 08:30, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Okay, well, no hard feelings k? Not on this wiki to fight. I'm just bored when my survivor is dead because it's been too easy playing my zombie lately. I did understand why you were saying what you said. I just very much disagree with what you said with every fiber of my collective being. :) --Tselita 08:36, 10 April 2008 (BST)

By the way you're totally welcome to check out the Talk:Discussions page, I have a bunch of suggestions there, 2 of which I'm dropping but the other 3 I'm just fine tuning. Feel free to give your advice on how I can make them better. I might not take the advice, but maybe I will take some of it. :)--Tselita 08:38, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Meh, I replied again. And no, I left Talk:Suggestions a while ago and don't ever want to go back. And if I held a grudge against everyone I had a disagreement with over something on this wiki I'd never be able to get anything done.--Karek^maps?! 09:02, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Karek, yer a glutton for punishment. I agree you probably shouldnt go back to that discussion page. I wrote a verbose response to your um.... verbose response. And then you'll write even more, and I think its raising your blood pressure a bit too much. Look at my mobile phone free calling suggestion, it's going to be a lot less aggravating for you. Or not. --Tselita 09:21, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Nailgun Suggestion

I think the nail gun would work better (be better received), yeah. Most people here are VERY "anti-new gun" people. But the nailgun isn't technically a gun so it presents other options beyond "found in PD/armory" that is a limiting factor in all gun suggestions.--Pesatyel 01:36, 8 May 2008 (BST)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking also. While doing the M-11 pistol all that talk about changing the gun and ammo found in the armory was making big flashing 'spam' signs in my head. Plus generally I think military weapons are going to get killed before people even read the description. As it is, several of the kill votes on the nail gun (there aren't many... I hope this passes peer review) seem to have been made without them even reading the suggestion because some of the no vote reasons are specifically answered in the suggestion, including links that prove it (like the one which says 'nailguns can not fire projectiles' - I have 2 separate links and 3 quotes from different government agencies which show they do - one of which specifically says they are shot out with the force and speed of a .22 calibre bullet, or the one which says that 'video game notwithstanding, it's not in genre... despite that this is, essentially, a video game, and I also showed it being used in horror movies) :) I figured a nailgun would bypass a lot of the problems that a normal gun wouldn't. Plus it would be more in the flavor of a zombie genre game. It's currently up for votes - has a lot of keeps so far - I hope you'll vote a keep on it too :) --Tselita 04:10, 8 May 2008 (BST)

Yeah, sorry that mostly all I've been doing is voting on stuff (you actually did come after some other voting I did, I'm still getting around the back-end of the wiki, since I normally lurk on the front). Anyways, I have a couple minutes before class, so I'll explain my reasoning:

The nailgun, right now, is a useless weapon--it's an ammo weapon that's really not all that different from a knife or fire axe, weaker than a pistol or shotgun, and doesn't fulfill any niche purpose at the moment (because fire axes, though slightly less accurate, also bypass flak jackets and make up for the lack of accuracy (increased overall AP cost/xp) by not having to be reloaded/have ammo searched for). It ALSO doesn't change the playing strategy when killing/getting XP, because of this.

The addition of a worthless secondary purpose, like newspapers, liquor, etc, is, well, worthless, because the AP/result ratio is a waste and no one would regularly spend time with it. Therefore, the addition of another weapon would have to be for a purpose that isn't just "flavor text", and your weapon suggestion comes across to me as just flavor text, which is a bit of a clutter for inventories. So, yes, another purpose would change my opinion, but only if it was a relevant, new, useful purpose: perhaps something to do with barricade building, such as consuming its ammo to make barricades stronger (with some percentage chance that doesn't unbalance things)? Colbear 20:55, 8 May 2008 (BST)

Like I said on your wiki discussion page, I'm actually going to be making a nailgun v2.0 with some other uses, regardless of if this one is peer reviewed or undecided. I just wish the people who gave me the ideas for v2.0 had suggested them to me in talk:discussion :) --Tselita 21:24, 8 May 2008 (BST)

Oh snap!

My bad. My vote originally had an as above before the Grim thing. I guess I accidentally baleeted it. My mouse is a bit broken right now. That link was just something for you to look over really, you know, for future reference. I'm modifying my vote to clarify my mess up. Sorry. :) -- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 21:06, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Not a problem. While I disagree that the game couldn't use another type of gun, I understand the "nay-voters'" reasoning behind it. I just brought it to your attention because my suggestion was still in line with the link you had sent to me. The 'As above' makes your vote more clear, and I appreciate the link, but it's probably a moot point, as I can't think of any other firearms ideas which would fit well in the game. I only had 5 to begin with - the speargun idea (which was declared undecided, though it did get an impressive amount of votes), the sawed off shotgun (a weapon modification idea which I decided not to bring to vote, the different shotgun ammo idea, the M-11 (again, I decided not to take it to vote when I came up with the nailgun idea - which I consider overall a much better idea than the M-11), and the nailgun. I don't plan on ever suggesting a sniper rifle, an antiquated gun, any sort of full-automatic machine gun, or a flamethrower. But I'll continue to keep it in mind if I ever do come up with another firearms idea - thanks :) --Tselita 21:25, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Problem

I'm afraid that there is very little you can do about people trolling your suggestions on the talk page apart from ignoring them. Seriously, just don't bother getting into rows with them, or replying to them - and tell anyone else affected to do the same. I've gotta say I haven't looked into if fully, but from what I've seen a lot of the taunts are aimed at getting a response, if you don't respond to them they've lost. If you do respond, whatever way it goes they've won - cos they've got you wound up and that's what trolling aims for. I can tell you now that any arbitration case will be long, drawn out and cause no end of drama. Seriously, the best policy is avoidance. --Seventythree^Talk 22:14, 2 May 2008 (BST)

Meh... I guess you're right. They're just trying to get my goat. I'm not really wound up though. I'm just annoyed that now they're saying stuff about other people who happen to act more maturely. I think the crack they made about Iscariot is what irked me. I'll take your advice and just ignore them from now on. --Tselita 22:17, 2 May 2008 (BST)

Your suggestion

Well, looks like Axe hack has sorted everything out already. The only thing I would say (I'm not accusing you of anything here, by the way) is don't revise and withdraw the same suggestion more than a couple of times. Chances are you're gonna do nothing more than piss off everyone and clog up the page. Um, other than that, well you're always gonna get some people who will not vote keep ever on any suggestion invloving guns, no point in challenging them with RE's. Umm....Yeah the actual idea itself, having more than one kind of ammo with different effects seems pretty sound to me. If you stick it back on talk:suggestions I'll be sure to add my annoying opinions! Anything else, just leave me a message, or ask Axehack, he's been around for a while and knows how stuff works.--Seventythree^Talk 01:32, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Yes. I've been around since the Big Bang. I'm over 10 billion years old, but I look like I'm 16. Amazing. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:41, 17 April 2008 (BST)

He's found the one anti-aging cream that works, obviously.--Seventythree^Talk 01:43, 17 April 2008 (BST)

By the way...All you religious types out there...There is no God. It's all a lie. I made it all up by telling the caveman I was the creator of the universe. I'm sorry. Anyway...did you know there were actually 4 super continents? Pangaea being the last one? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:30, 17 April 2008 (BST)

I still maintain that there was only three super continents. Panagea was merely great.--Seventythree^Talk 23:39, 17 April 2008 (BST)

How would you know? I've been on Earth for 10 billion years! --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:40, 17 April 2008 (BST)

I thought that the wrold was created in, like 6 days or something..... or was that a movie I saw?--Seventythree^Talk 23:42, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks - yeah I'm sorry if I messed anything up while doing this but a few of the votes really made me think I should take it back to Discussion to simplify it, and I've never done that before. I'm going to make a revised suggestion which will have only 2... MAYBE 3... ammo types. The buckshot and the tumbler slug definitely, and -maybe- the dragonsbreath. Then if it does get implemented, I could toy with the idea of other shells later on. I think I tried to do too much too fast. Originally the idea was to improve on an earlier idea I had for sawed off shotguns, but a few people explained some logical problems with that idea which the tumbler slug solves. Oh and a couple of the people who did vote kill did tell me if I simplified it, they'd probably have voted keep on it, so that's another reason it's worth just taking it back to discussion and getting more input. I had a feeling I was taking it out of discussion too early as it was... --Tselita 01:20, 18 April 2008 (BST)

these things take time, and in my experiance weapon based suggestions never get a warm reception.--Seventythree^Talk 19:07, 18 April 2008 (BST)

I dunno, my Sledgehammer suggestion got a pretty nice response. Even the speargun idea pretty well, it's about 2/3rds keep to kill. I think it's actual firearms suggestions that have a tough time getting passed because it takes more work to make them balanced. --Tselita 19:51, 18 April 2008 (BST)

Airborne88

I think your page To Discussion? should actually be User:Tselita/To Discussion? so that it falls under your user account. Otherwise it is just sort of floating around out there. I could be wrong. I usually am actually..--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 07:09, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Um, what should I put in there, code-wise? Last time Viktor sent me a 'For Discussion' in one of my suggestions it seemed like it was done the same way as I just did it.--Tselita 07:17, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Is it an area to discuss one specific suggestion? Or a personnel place to talk about many? I sort of charged in and have no idea what you are trying to accomplish. You could just continue, and a sysop will move it if he wants to.. May make the most sense.--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 07:24, 7 April 2008 (BST)

It was basically an area so I could talk with Viktor about the fact that he liked the idea but 'needs work'. He didn't elaborate on that part so I wanted to know if there was anything I could explain to him about the suggestion, or if he could tell me what needed work since he didn't say anything in talk:discussion. If he didn't vote 'weak kill/change' I wouldn't have bothered to ask to discuss it, to be honest. I took it as an idea that he wanted to vote keep but there was some specific question he had about the suggestion that was keeping him from doing so, and if I responded to his concern to see if he'd be changing his vote to keep if my suggestion already met his concerns (I'm not sure what change he was talking about or what improvements he was referring to) --Tselita 07:32, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Well, you could go to his talk page and see if he is interested in discussing if further. However, if this is going to be an on going problem, why not just create a place for it? When the suggestion is all talked through, scrub it down for the next one. The article page is for your actual suggestion, and the talk page would be for discussing it. Just a thought. But to do the 2nd option, you will need to take ownership of it for example: User:Tselita/Suggestions (click on it and you will create it) as long as you Own the page, you really can't get into any trouble or worry about a Sysop deleting it--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 07:42, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Not really concerned if it was to get deleted. It's only a place I made to see if I can get him to change his mind on his vote, since he seemed to generally like the vote and voted kill because... well I'm not sure the reason actually... I just wanted to see if he could explain that part so I could see if the suggestion already covers his concerns. This is the first suggestion I made that seems to have a chance of getting to Peer Reviewed :) If you could tell me how to make it so that page is 'owned' by me though, I'd appreciate it.--Tselita 15:35, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Maybe 'owned' isn't the right term.. 'linked to you user page' might be better. This makes you the primary author of the page and allows you a little slack in your editing as it is not "intended" as public. An example would be a sandbox (though you could make whatever you want). The key to 'owning it" is the path. It must be a subpage of your user page. EX: [[User:Tselita/Sanbox]] or [[User:Tselita/Suggestions]]--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 21:22, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Here

	Airborne88's Friend
	This User is a personal friend of Airborne88! For what that's worth.

If you are brave enough to keep it!--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 05:09, 8 April 2008 (BST)

I'll treasure this always! :).... unless I can trade it for a box of smokes. --Tselita 05:14, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Oh, that's be a hard sell. Maybe you could get "shorts" on a half smoked one if ya were lucky.--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 05:44, 8 April 2008 (BST)

RE:"shorts"... 'round where i grew up is was butts, or kills, or killsies... fuck i'm glad i quit! --Jack ^{S13 T! PC} 17:29, 8 May 2008 (BST)

Cookie Template

What exactly are you trying to get here? I've made several templates, so if you need help, I can show you how to fix it. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 22:55, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Oh, nevermind. I just noticed your new edits. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 22:56, 8 April 2008 (BST)

First attempt at making a template. Thanks for the offer to help though, but I figured it out. --Tselita 23:07, 8 April 2008 (BST)

You'll probably want to put the mistake version up for speedy deletion. That'll get it removed and you can keep your corrected version. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 23:42, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Two questions - 1) How? and 2) Can you give me a link to my corrected version also? I didnt know I saved an incorrect one --Tselita 00:10, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Here is a link to the instructions for adding things to the Speedy Deletion Queue. Effectively you need to link to your incorrect version, making sure to include the : so as not to post the template. Look at the following text with the edit screen: Template:VERY Evil Cookie. Then just state you made an error in the name of the page and you'd like to delete it citing Crit 7 as you are the author. Here is the correct one: Template:Very Evil Cookie, and the incorrect one: Template:VERY Evil Cookie. See the difference? --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 00:16, 9 April 2008 (BST)

To be honest, no, I don't see the difference at all :) --Tselita 00:42, 9 April 2008 (BST)

There are two of them, for one. And two, the second one has VERY capitalized. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 00:50, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Ohh. *pause* What if the second one is just a scosche more evil than the first one? --Tselita 00:53, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Well, that's easy. Change the template a little bit and you can have your VERY evil cookie. ;) --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 01:02, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Okay it's changed. the Very Evil Cookie is left handed, while the VERY Evil Cookie is clearly right handed. He also is cheating on his wife, while the first evil cookie is not married - he skipped out on his girlfriend after he impregnated her. --Tselita 01:06, 9 April 2008 (BST)

I meant more something like using a picture like this, the title to be something like: "A FREE VERY EVIL COOKIE... OF EVEN MORE EVIL!", and change the original title to be "A FREE VERY EVIL COOKIE...NOW WITH MORE EVIL!" --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 01:36, 9 April 2008 (BST)

You just took the original and inversed it, huh? We should try a different picture... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:38, 9 April 2008 (BST)

I just have paint here, so I am limited. But I did find a better one. Yes, that's from a movie called "The Gingerdead Man" that stars Gary Busey followed by the sequel in the works, Gingerdead Man 2: Passion of the Crust, complete with a parody of the movie poster from Passion of the Christ. Yes, I wish I was making this up. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 01:47, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Actually I watched The Gingerdead Man. Godawful movie - second worst I've ever seen, right after to Dracula 3000.--Tselita 02:53, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Try watching "the city of the walking dead" I dare you to watch it without killing yourself... It is soooo bad!--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 08:52, 10 April 2008 (BST)

	A FREE VERY EVIL COOKIE... OF EVEN MORE EVIL!
	Tselita has given Tselita an evil cookie for putting up with myself. Go on... eat it.

Enjoy your keep. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:09, 8 April 2008 (BST)

You know...I didn't notice this before...But the wiki already has an evil cookie...

	A FREE COOKIE... OF EVIL!
	Axe Hack has given Tselita an evil cookie for making a second evil cookie. Go on... eat it.

--•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:15, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Yeah, Airborne gave me that after I won in Hangman the first time after just guessing E and R. But I wanted to out-evil that cookie, because you're far too evil for just an 'evil cookie'. --Tselita 23:19, 8 April 2008 (BST)

That's me. An evil twin who has the nice twin locked up somewhere. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:43, 9 April 2008 (BST)

You stole that from The Simpsons :) --Tselita 00:47, 9 April 2008 (BST)

	D'OH!
	This user has just done something stupid.

--•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:50, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Looking through slots.

To expand on my kill vote.

• Im not entirely understanding the whole partial tall building thing.

Why if its tall can you not throw yourself off the roof?

• Realism

peeking out of small holes limits your view/line of sight making scouting much harder, than from a multi windowed towerblock. You cant change your viewpoint to peer around a building blocking your current view.

Also how many holes are there? Is there a chance you can fail because someone else is peering out the whole?

• Me being petty

Forts are just plain silly. Everyone cades up to maximum, starving themselves of reinforcements.

There the number 2 target for zeds, its a prestige thing.

I don't therefore feel they should be boosted in any way.

There you go :-) --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:58, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Thank you very much for being so descriptive in your reasoning - it's very refreshing given the types of irrational and/or illogical kill reasons I get from certain groups and people. I agree that forts are silly (I helped tear down Perryn with FU recently actually) but many players seem to like using them and the game should be fun for them as well. Forts are probably the most (maybe the only) defensible position in the game. Let me go through each of your reasons though, okay?

• not entirely understanding the whole partial tall building thing. - the idea is the watchtower of the gatehouse is a covered, contained tower with a roof and narrow slit windows in 8 directions - enough to look through with binoculars. Because survivors can't bash down concrete walls, and the original intent of window slits is to make the lookouts inside the tower as small a target as possible, the windows are far too small to climb out of in order to jump out. It's like the crown on the statue of liberty in my home town of NYC (before they closed it down for people walking up there). The windows are small, go all the way around, but you can't climb out of them because people are too big for it. Nevertheless you can get a great view in all directions. Or windows on ocean liner cruiser rooms - they are small windows and you can look out but you can not jump out to a watery death.
• Realism - it's actually quite realistic that survivors paranoid about people jumping out to their deaths to join the zombie horde outside breaking down the fort would make the watchtower of a gatehouse have windows too small for a person to get out, though big enough for them to poke their head out with binoculars. In fact, it was a standard way that people built fort watchtowers over portculli for hundreds of years. And there are 8 viewing windows - one in each direction - N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, and NW.
• You being petty - personally I don't find it petty that you find forts silly. You're giving your honest opinion. Personally I find forts to be great places for me to level my zombies and feel like a real movie-style zombie attack, due to the captive audience. But I do need to disagree with at least one of the statements you said here:

• Everyone cades up to maximum, starving themselves of reinforcements. - Fort Perryn actuall lasted for about 2 months like that - they have this new strategy for having VSB cades 2 days a week, to allow for reinforcements and revives (as well as striking back at the zombies), while the rest of the time it's EHB (to provide security against PKers, GKers, RKers and spies. It's actually quite innovative and if the Dead didn't come along with the assistance of swarming the gatehouse with almost twice as many zombies outside as there were barracaders inside, we'd probably have been out there for a couple of additional months.
• There the number 2 target for zeds, its a prestige thing. I don't therefore feel they should be boosted in any way. - I don't really see how that makes the binocular gatehouse view idea less relevant personally, but nothing wrong with you saying that. Basically you're saying that you want zombies to be able to take down forts without survivors having any additional assistance, no matter how minor. It's a fair enough statment, though I disagree with it in its premise. But we can agree to disagree on that.

Again - thanks for being so polite - I greatly look forward to talking to people like you again :) --Tselita 19:20, 22 May 2008 (BST)

I should rephrase. The odd panicked survivor cades up to ehb on any building. The problem is compounded in the fort as you can't then get out. this suggestion i feel would actually damage survivors as it would remove one reason for keeping it at vsb (scouting) --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:39, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Like I said, Perryn has a joint VSB/EHB policy. VSB on I believe Wednesdays and Sundays, EHB all other days, VSB on the armory and infirmary. They have people who stand watch for decading purposes as well and for killing PKers/GKers/etc, probably. Fort Creedy does the other strategy - gatehouse always at VSB, Infirmary, Storehouse and Armory always at VSB. Other buildings at EHB. Personally I think Perryn works better against large hordes, but attracts more trenchies. Creedy attracts more PKers since they can actually get in easier without getting trapped outside and getting eaten by zombies, but even a moderate sized horde comes along, they can more easily overwhelm the defenses after just a few days of attacking, vs a few weeks or even months for Perryn. A zombie horde's best chance for breaking into a fort is always having an assigned time for the majority of the horde to attack en masse, and a few contingent zombies attacking at different 'off hour times' in order to keep the survivor barracaders wasting their AP to try to keep the cades up when it's at VHB, instead of them waiting until it goes down below HB or VSB. I also believe, though I'm not sure since I was a zombie for the siege, that Perryn also had a number of their group who stayed in the surrounding buildings to scout and to revive killed Fort-dwellers, as well as some who would attack/dna scan the zombies outside the gatehouse (maybe for identification purposes?) --Tselita 19:50, 22 May 2008 (BST)

(For ease of reading, why not just encase your edits back to grim in brackets) or italics. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:22, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Because Grim's posts to me are so goddam long that in order for me to even try to get a semblance of how to respond to it, then be able to read it back to myself for future reference, I find it easiest to do it as I have in his case. In shorter posts like yours, bullets work better (though I still reserve the right to have my own user page look however I am comfortable with it, especially since I sign and indent wherever I post) Also, with the sheer amount of pablum that Grim sends my way, I'd lose track if I had to cut and paste italics for everything he says that I need to respond to on a case by case basis. At least I don't just blanket delete his self-congratulatory Grim-lovefest novels on my page. I don't know if he has a job or what, but I do. I do this typing in between writing up memos and notice & pleadings and transcribings. I don't have the time or inclination to have to tiptoe around Grim's Obsessive Compulsive Disorder just because he wants everything to look a certain way even if it's their own user pages. --Tselita 20:34, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Grims actually very clever. notice how he's distracted you from the main issue with this seperate debate?

--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:46, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Nah, he hasn't distracted me from the main issue in the slightest - I'm more than capable of having 2 or more thoughts on different subjects at the same time. And don't confuse being on here for a long time with being clever. I don't think he's clever at all - he's pompous and has a self-deluded sense of overstated importance, and has been trying unsuccessfully to do what the Malton Globetrotters try to do. They feel that by spamming everything I say on the wiki, that I'll somehow not be able to keep track of what my original views are. Doesn't work - I keep track of 5 lawyers and their cases daily, their appointments, court dates, memoranda, pleadings, interrogatories and more. I somehow doubt that most of them could keep track of a checkbook. As for the original point before they went off on this tangent, I'm still working on Nailgun v2.0 and will still be posting it as a suggestion when my worktime permits, my timer is up for the gatehouse suggestion, and I get in touch with other people to explain what happened with the Nailgun v1.0 (since not everyone pays attention to the Talk:Discussion) --Tselita 20:53, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Hi back!

Hey man, thanks for the advice and such. I'll check your nail gun suggestion out real soon. About the impersonation thing: Yeah, I definitely misunderstood the standards due to this caption, which I can see right now "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then don't submit it here." I kinda thought it was fair game to play pranks like that, as long as it was kinda obvious that the person didn't actually say whatever you added. Obviously, what I did was pretty immature, but I was mostly snickering to myself while I did it, and wish Iscariot no real ill, though I was kinda pissed that the first response to my supposedly brilliant idea was to call it "retarded. Fucking genius, go back to your fort!" Meh. A sudden introduction to a world I was unfamiliar with. Anyway, I just figured out what the hell user talk is, and how embarrassing it is that my little prank is so broadly revealed to the public...

Since I figure you probably won't ruthlessly pk me, my game characters (all currently zombified) are capnbrappn, prontold, and pohiliel. Add me to contacts if you like. Keep being cool and coming up with all your craaazy suggestions and I'll see you around the forums, and maybe greater Malton

Peace/Joyous Flesh gnawing

Pac8s

Background and font colour

yo,

your background and font colour on your user page makes it nearly impossible to read, I'd suggest changinf your font to white, or your background to light blue. anyway, peace out holmes. -Jack ^{S13 T! PC} 19:38, 10 April 2008 (BST)

I'd like to, but I didnt design it - Hhal did. I would love if I could make the font color yellow instead. If anyone can tell me how, please do --Tselita 19:46, 10 April 2008 (BST)

For font colours use the following code <span style="color: Yellow">Enter your text here</span> . Hope that helps! try the words "Gold" or "Mustard" and see what colours you can get... That's about all i've got. -- Jack ^{S13 T! PC} 21:17, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks, looks better now? --Tselita 21:26, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Awesome, looks great! -- Jack ^{S13 T! PC} 16:00, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks for the help Jack :) And I just noticed you struck your kill vote on Free Calling - cool :) No idea why WanYao is voting kill though - he doesn't like the idea that you can only call people on your contact list, from what I understand of his kill vote. But lookat all the rest of those keep votes - I think that might be the highest amount of keeps any one of my suggestions have ever received. I could see a lot more phone-mast-protection groups popping into existence if this was implemented. I'd love to see mobile coverage go to 50% :) Btw, when will you be taking Cell Boost to vote? --Tselita 16:05, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Not sure about that... I'm trying to decide if i should put it up first as just a radius boost and see how it fairs, or if i should go directly to the versions with weak and strong signals. --Jack ^{S13 T! PC} 17:02, 11 April 2008 (BST)

When you put it up for vote, you already have a definite keep from me, no matter which version you put up - I like both. I've found when I try to make things too complicated, it hurts when it gets to voting, but I really do like the idea of weak and strong signals. I think you should put both up, and if it fails,then just do a v2.0 of it with just the radius boost. --Tselita 17:25, 11 April 2008 (BST)

I should probably say this...The person you're calling has to have you on their contact list as well in order to call them. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:10, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Arbitration

I honestly cannot say that it would be a good idea for you to take any case to arbitration, especialy as several members of the Something Awful lot don't trust it so you won't get a proper case in any regard. There does seem to be a fair few people who even go as far as to trawl recent changes for your contributions, and mock you for them. Its kinda pathetic I know, but they haven't actualy broken any rules as I can see. Yes, there appears to be a few as well who have crossed the border between a bit of teasing into bullying and victimisation, but there is nothing I can do unless they actualy commit vandalism apart from leave a little note asking them to stop. All I can suggest is get involved in another area of the wiki for a while until it dies down a bit.--Seventythree^Talk 20:06, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Even a little note wouldn't work. The Goons only like a couple of the sysops and neither of us are one of them. -- Cheese 20:08, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Meh. I'm not asking as a sysop. I'd just like it if another user wasn't run off the wiki because they fall foul of a larger group.--Seventythree^Talk 20:11, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Isn't what they're doing on Talk:Suggestions basically spamming it with inane stuff - it's so obvious that Gardenator's posts are just to make fun of me, and it's becoming a flamewar magnet. And now they're accusing me of being a sock puppet because I did not participate in the flamewar and instead went to 73 to ask about arbitration when I saw it happening --Tselita 20:13, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Gardenator is making claims, both out in the open and secretively to Grimch that I'm a sock puppet. I want to be able to prove I'm not. What can I do to shut them up once and for all? --Tselita 20:15, 2 June 2008 (BST)

If you have sock puppets I beleive that the only way to tell would be if you shared an IP adress with another account suspected to be a sock puppet account. I don't think it's usual policy for a sysop or beurocrat to run a IP check te check up on this unless a banned, or vandal account (any account up for VB) is suspected of having a sockpuppet account. --Seventythree^Talk 20:18, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Okay - well I don't have any sock puppets to begin with - just the one Tselita account. I only make suggestions because it's easy to do that in notepad then just copy/paste it while my work is slow. I can't keep up with all the flame wars though and I was trying to follow your advice to ignore them, but they are just getting more and more extreme.

Tell me this - can either of you remove Gardenator's troll-mockery suggestions from Talk:Discussion? The nailgun cleans windows and toolbox weapons for zombies ones? They're just spam, like how most of the Goons flood responses on my suggestions in hope that people can't follow what the discussion is about. --Tselita 20:24, 2 June 2008 (BST)

You can move them yourself. If they try and A/VB you they'll crash and/or burn. It's a talk page so they can troll you but i think making far suggestions is taking it too far. Although they'll probably just revert and you'll have to A/A it up. Which i don't see a problem with, provided you've got the time.--xoxo 06:47, 4 June 2008 (BST)

My bad, it seems Wan already removed them - and apparently precedent says humourous suggestions on Talk:Suggestions is fine, check A/VB for more deets.--xoxo 06:52, 4 June 2008 (BST)

Well now Gardenator thinks that I'm friends with Zaphod Beeblebrox. Don't know the person, don't care about him. Far as I'm concerned they're both fighting on the same level. As for trying to categorize me, don't. Grim - You'll fail. I don't fit into any neat little box - and if anything you left out 'Tireless Rebutter' - most likely because you see yourself as one and don't want the competition. I don't see myself as any of those though - you would because frankly you're the most anal person I've ever seen, and putting people into neat little boxes seems like something you'd have to do in order to cope with other human beings even partially well. You're definitely Ferrous Cranus though. That part was pretty much cemented when you tried to reference a dilbert cartoon as reasoning in one of your comments, after repeated attempts of me asking you to give a constructive criticism instead of your (Grim's) usual drivel. --Tselita 16:46, 4 June 2008 (BST)

Re: Shotgun Suggestion

I'm glad you decided to accept my help. A lot of newbies are extremely prideful and end up hopelessly lost because of it. That is what sets you apart from them.

But enough philosophy. First, the tactical shotguns. I don't have any specifics in mind, but what I want to try and work towards is a workable tactical shotgun with a say...10 round drum magazine? Sounds nuts, I know, but with suggestions it's best to start big and work the numbers down a bit until you find acceptable alternatives. One thing that could act as a counter to this fierce shotgun is that perhaps Flak Jackets could remove more damage. I dunno. You and me can work on this.

The sawn off shotgun idea is great, but I'm pretty sure it's been suggested before. Also, it would make sense that you would be able to carry more sawn off shotguns. Perhaps lower the encumbrance or something.

And finally, Talk:Suggestions. EDIT: Looks like you got it all on your own! Well done! --Hhal 16:44, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Ack I wrote a whole thing to you and it went away. oh well I'll retype it. First off, thanks for the complement, it's sweet :)

Second Yeah I did work hard on both the shotgun ammo box/limit suggestion and the new Sawed off shotgun suggetion. I hope they get a lot of keeps :) It would be nice to see some weapon changes in the game. And yeah I did lower the encumberance on sawn-offs from 6% to 5% as part of the benefit of making a shotgun into a sawn-off.

I like the tactical shotgun thing, but I do have a few suggestions of my own on it. As is we both know that it would be spammanated into oblivion. I'd suggest the following changes - 1) Call it a Bolt Action Shotgun instead of Tactical. Sounds less trenchy. 2) Bolt Action Shotguns are shotguns which hold a 'magazine' of 2-3 shells, so you'd be able to load 2-3 shells with 1 AP. 3) It's not a simple job to modify a normal shotgun into a bolt action shotgun, according to wikipedia. I'd suggest that either you have to search to find it in Gun Shops and Armories (Not in PDs - it's not a standard police issue weapon) or if you want to modify it, it can only be modified from a regular shotgun in a powered up factory. What do you think? :)--Tselita 17:01, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Very interesting. I likey. Perhaps there could be a skill associated with the process...maybe Gunsmith or something. When you're in a powered factory, you can change a shotgun to a BA shotgun for 20AP. The stiff AP penalty, combined with the fact it needs to happen in a powered factory could make it work. --Hhal 17:36, 2 April 2008 (BST)

20 AP sounds reasonable - just like syringe manufacturing but for non-scientists. Makes Factories more important too, not just genny makers. And gives another useful skill to spend xp on which has potential for future uses too.--Tselita 17:45, 2 April 2008 (BST)

Exactly! I think we have something here. Incidently, would you care if I fixed you up with a userpage? It just annoys me when people don't have one. ;) --Hhal 01:07, 3 April 2008 (BST)

A user page? Sure, that would be fine... not sure what that really means though :) Could you explain, and sure you can. I'm seriously liking this idea for a bolt action shotgun btw. Oh and I made 2 more suggestions on Talk:Suggestion, in addition to the sawed off shotgun one... check them out?--Tselita 05:07, 3 April 2008 (BST)

Sorry I didn't reply yesterday. I was busy all day and didn't have a chance to get online. Anyway, I definately want to work more on the BA shotgun suggestion. Your idea of different shotgun rounds also sounds very interesting. I also like your sledgehammer suggestion. Oh, and a userpage is that page you put your quote on. Before I begin work, what is/are your favorite color(s)? --Hhal 00:15, 5 April 2008 (BST)

I spent the better part of 3 hours writing a suggestion in Talk:Suggestions about different shotgun shells, and it was VERY in depth.... and when I clicked to add it, stupid wiki booted me and I lost everything. I'm rewriting it offline and I'll put it up tomorrow. I like the sledgehammer idea too :) I hope when it comes up to suggestion votes, you'll vote on it too. And I'll let you know when I put up the shotgun shell idea, and let me know when you'd like to discuss the Bolt Action Shotgun more. I'd like to flesh out the idea. Even some zombie players have not knocked on it. My favorite colors are Red, Blue and Yellow (I guess that makes me supergirl hehe).--Tselita 00:29, 5 April 2008 (BST)

3 hours...ouch. I hate it when I lose work. The best thing to do when you're writing something big is to write it in Notepad, save it every few seconds, and pray your computer doesn't go crazy and delete it.
I have a few minutes, so I'll start on your userpage. :) --Hhal 00:37, 5 April 2008 (BST)

Ok, I've made a starting page. Let me know what you think. Also, I put some notes in there for you. Click edit to see them. --Hhal 00:54, 5 April 2008 (BST)

Looks nice :) Thank you. I'll work on filling it. Both of my characters are dead and they're swamped by The Dead so it's not like I have much else to do right now hehe --Tselita 05:28, 5 April 2008 (BST)

Is the fancy text displaying correctly? I was looking at your page on another computer, and the fancy text had turned into big ugly plain text. That's just because that comp doesn't have the fancy font I used. But anyway, does it show ok?
Btw, let's bring the pyramid of talk back the other way. ;) --Hhal 19:13, 5 April 2008 (BST)

It looks great - thank you :)--Tselita 07:16, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Are we working on the Bolt Action Shotgun more? If so, got any new ideas for it? If not, will you be bringing it to talk:discussion, or should I? --Tselita 17:06, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Just me

I removed it. Are you okay? --Tselita 06:20, 16 April 2008 (BST)

*COUGH COUGH HACK COUGH*

	A FREE COOKIE
	Axe Hack has given Tselita a cookie for something that I would like...

--•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 03:10, 4 April 2008 (BST)

Munch! I LIKES DA COOKIES! --Tselita 03:12, 4 April 2008 (BST)

*COUGH COUGH HACK COUGH* You know what I want... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 03:34, 4 April 2008 (BST) Nah...I'm kidding. You don't need to change your vote.

? Oh actually sure I'll change it. I actually honestly did vote spam only because of what you said in your vote :) (you know, that you wanted to vote spam but you couldnt since it was your suggestion)... Minor problem though - I don't know how to move my suggestion to kill and cross out the one in spam.--Tselita 03:39, 4 April 2008 (BST)

Don't bother. I'm gonna revise it and resubmit. I read my suggestion again and I realized that I might be confusing people into thinking survivors can only die because of an Infection, which is completely not what I wanted. I wanted a survivor who dies infected becomes a zombie and a survivor who does not stays dead. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 15:28, 4 April 2008 (BST)

k. Thanks for the cookie. By the way, if you want, look in Talk:Suggestions. I have a 2 suggestions in there which I'd like input on before I take anything to Suggestions. One of them looks like good reviews, the other I'm going to because I've discovered several flaws with it.--Tselita 15:59, 4 April 2008 (BST)

Hello

Hi - I was wondering if you wouldnt mind helping me with me weapon sugestion since you have more exsperience than I have. Im doing my utmost best to make it work and balanced and am detirmined to get it to work. If its OK please continue to make helpfull segestion for me as it would be welcome. Also when you have finished finalising your shotgun idea and submit it for voting please let me know so I can vote Keep for it as it is a good idea. Many Thanks in advance --Feon Kensai 20:52, 7 April 2008 (BST)

I'll try my best to help - I don't have that much more experience though. I've been making suggestions for about 2 weeks and I'm just beginning to get a hang of what people are going to definitely spam or kill and what they won't. I'll be bringing the shotgun idea to suggestions soon. I also have a sledgehammer suggestion currently in suggestion - it's got 16 keeps so far and only 6 kills (and 2 of which are weak kills or change). Feel free to vote for that too, it would be really helpful to survivors I feel, especially newer ones. I'll keep you posted on my other suggestions. I just know that the zombie players tend to almost always spam anything which involves sniper rifles, even if it's a really well thought out idea, but I'll help if I can. you'll probably like my next suggestion about shotgun ammo. I'll tell you when that one's done too.--Tselita 21:08, 7 April 2008 (BST)

I'll give you a hand if you want. But Tselita is right, be prepared to have it torn to shreds. I would suggest spending some time just watching the suggestion page and looking at past suggestions. Also, I would put it up for discussion before you throw your suggestion to the wolves. --Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 21:26, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Just my humble opinion, Airborne's one of the best people on the wiki to help new wiki users out. He's even made ME partially competent!--Tselita 21:29, 7 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks Tselita! That is only because I became active on the wiki a little over a month ago, so it is pretty fresh in my mind where I went wrong. I did some fairly silly things and wish someone would have stepped in and helped me out. --Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 21:35, 7 April 2008 (BST)

OK - thanks for that. Im begining to understand what you mean about being torn to shreds - you cant satisfy everyone. I dont mind critisism as I have a positive outlook on things and life - I just smile when people critisise (espesially the negative ones) and dont even make a slight attempt at helping or making a sugestion as I think thats what we should do if we critisise. Dont worry - I will be posting any future ideas in discussion first and thank you for your support and I will look at the Sledge hammer. Im glad you understand Im new at this sugestion thing (I will be releasing version 2 of my Rifle idea with the fixes people have given to the best of my ability) --Feon Kensai 16:55, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Oh what bugs -me- is not when they criticize and don't make an attempt to help - what bugs me is when I'm on the voting and they say 'I like this idea, but I'm voting kill'. It makes me want to shake them repeatedly and smack them upside their head. Also what bugs me is when someone comments a lot in talk:suggestions, then when it comes up to vote with changes were made to make it more palatable to them, or bring it to vote after they had nothing negative to say about it ... they don't bother to vote. Now -that- bugs me. I'm used to people tearing down ideas without giving anything constructive though. It's a lot easier to criticize than to innovate. By the way I still haven't put up my BIG suggestion yet, though i've added 2 more suggestions to Talk:Suggestion. Join the Gun Club Club Club Your Enemies, and Speargun. The big one is still coming up. It's taking a long time to get it juuuust right. And I'm still working on one with Hhal (that you'd probably like a lot).--Tselita 17:03, 8 April 2008 (BST)

LOL - I have looked at your Sledge hammer idea and I like it(I voted keep) and I can see what you meen (I promis to try and avoid doing what you said what bugs you) - I guess I will excperience that soon enougth. When I can I will try and help with sugestions but you seem to do a good job with sugestions. When I release a fix of my sugestion do I create a new one or add it to my old one? Thanks --Feon Kensai 18:19, 8 April 2008 (BST)

I've yet to personally create a fix for any suggestion I've made, but from what I've seen others do, you create a new one - you don't add it to the old one. Though you might want to ask Airborne just to make sure - he likely knows more about the proper procedure (I usually ask him questions about procedure when I am not sure of something as well). And thanks for the Keep vote! 21 keeps so far, only 7 Kills (3 of which are weak or change), 2 of which are nonsensical. I'm thinking I might be getting my first peer reviewed suggestion soon. And any advice or comments you have on my suggestions in Talk:Discussion is -always- welcome! --Tselita 18:23, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Be aware all "riffle" suggestions get shot to pieces. As do any ranged attack weapon. I seriously doubt any will ever pass peer review...--Airborne88^T|Z.Quiz|PSS 23:16, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Actually...a few of them did. Suggestions Dos and Do Nots lists some of them. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:19, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Hopefully my new ammo one will pass peer review too. Speaking of which I really need to figure out how to move my older suggestions to archives since no one is doing it automatically and my new suggestion is too big to fit in the current page with all the old ones in there. --Tselita 23:20, 9 April 2008 (BST)

I highly doubt it. Anyways, to see all the firearms suggestions in PR, check out here. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:23, 9 April 2008 (BST)

Checked it out - my idea is definitely unique. --Tselita 04:44, 10 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks for the warning Airborne88 - I might as well get it out my system though since its been bugging me - and hey im working on an ambisious (and probably outragous - will get killed 999 out of 1000 chance)idea about street barricading (just working on corner issues) - Zeds will hate it but wouldn't survivors try to make an attempt to hinder Zeds on the street and not just at building doors.

A street barracading idea? Hrm that actually does sound original, if nothing else. One little hint, when making a suggestion, make sure to NEVER start by saying 'This will probably get killed, but...' or 'I know this is ridiculous, but...' :) I think the idea of street barracading (not high barracades... loosely and lightly or something along those lines), would probably be a good addition to survivor strategies, especially against The Dead and future Big Bash incursions... a way to slow hordes and mega-hordes down a bit and give survivors a chance to get a few more AP before the fights occur. And while it may very well get killed, it's still worth suggesting. Kevan has implemented occasional suggestions which were killed or spammed before (like Ankle Grab). And you never know, it might get undecided, or even keep'ed. Just don't 'expect' it to pass. That way if it does you'll be pleasantly surprised. And definitely use Talk:Discussion first to flesh things out. And ask people like Airborne for help on stuff as well - I'll say it again, he's fantastic. :) --Tselita 23:39, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks for that tip - I was thinking like max being quiet strongly caded but I will go with lightly - also Zeds with the ability to move with 1 AP can get past but at the cost of 2 - 5 AP (yet to deside)--Feon Kensai 14:30, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Alternate function?

Hey, about your Nailgun. Wouldn't it be possible to use it to nail together wooden objects in order to strengthen barricades? Obviously, this shouldn't work everywhere, for instance NT buildings should be exempt as you're pretty much using all metal lab equipment there, same with hospitals. But with offices, where you're using desks and cabinets and stuff, using a Nailgun to help there wouldn't be so bad, would it?

With the latest UD update, it'd make it somewhat of an anti-toolbox. Standard toolboxes are a barricading tool first, and a weapon second, while a nailgun would be a weapon first and a barricading tool second. --Blake Firedancer 11:58, 1 June 2008 (BST)

Try it. It'll take me six seconds to pull the dupe and kill it. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:47, 1 June 2008 (BST)

Okay guys.... stoppit. :) Blake, there are ways that a nailgun could be a barracade-strengthener, but I never bothered to include them because I'm more interested in getting it approved as a weapon. I do think it has the potential for future suggestions as a barracader, but those would be limited due to the fact that a nailgun by itself doesn't actually strengthen anything - it's boards that do.

Currently I think the main problem is overcading and the near-impossibility of being able to repair a ruined building (especially ruined cinemas, armories, clubs, etc.) - if anything I'd be putting my efforts behind a way to make that more possible. I do plan on putting nailgun v2.0 to a vote as soon as I have some more free time though. I'm also currently working on a rather lengthy project for Strategies on dealing with the most recent 'Dark' Update to give it the maximum survivor benefit instead of zombie benefit, as well as suggestions to counter the 'increase in AP to fix ruined buildings'. But I might make future suggestions with the nailgun beyond just being a weapon - but I'd like to first see it pass peer review or at least get to undecided as a weapon. --Tselita 21:39, 1 June 2008 (BST)

Fair enough. After all, you gotta have the foundations before you build on it. --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 09:17, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Suggestions..

Since you seem to have worked on a lot of suggestions (And Airborne88 is busy), I wanted to resurrect/update some of the suggestion on PR Malton. And some of my own, As you probably noticed on Kevan's page >.> Also, Is your free calling suggestion the only Mobile phone suggestion of that sort? I thought I saw one by Wan, 50 calls per a charge, perhaps a charger/Cable. Though, I couldn't seem to find it again.. _■^■ 04:19, 22 May 2008

Free Calling was the only mobile phone suggestion I've thought of so far - I had included 50 calls per Charges in it - that was my suggestion, not Wan's, though I got the idea from something Wan had mentioned in Talk:discussion. The full name of the suggestion was 'Free Calling and Charges'. Of course, that was before the Malton Globetrotters decided to try to kill or spam every idea I came up with. It's trolling, but whatever. I consider it a badge of honor that they need to make an entire group dedicated to opposing my ideas which seem to be really popular with the collective rest of the wiki. Note, most of them have never come up with a single suggestion of their own. --Tselita 05:42, 22 May 2008 (BST)

You are correct The Malton Globetrotters are quite annoying, Plus their leader (Or atleast one of their Trolls) is a DA member >.>.. If I were to make another alt, I'd likely join PK, If I could, That is.. Though, They seem to be marked as generic PKers.. The Malton Globetrotters don't seem to do Anything other than troll, You can say The Dead mini me? And, If I didn't make myself clear (Which I probably didn't), I would really like to see some suggestions implemented, How would I go about poking suggestion on PR Malton among other thing? [/Ramblng] _■^■ 04:33, 25 May 2008 (BST)

1) What's a DA member? And yeah I know. I think the Malton Globetrotters literally were made to troll out my suggestions - one woman vs a bunch of trolls :) Fair odds. Currently I'm astounded that they're working hard to spam a suggestion I've made which is a buff to ZOMBIES even. I wonder what they'll say about my Ransack/Repair XP idea... probably write a ton about that as well once they're done.

2) I'm probably going to join PK if they accept me, though I still do like how Red Rum operates. I'll probably use my zombie turned human, since my main character I want to keep pro-survivor. I don't know how you'd go about promoting the stuff on PR Malton - maybe mention it on Kevan's page? I dunno --Tselita 16:40, 25 May 2008 (BST)

So far, I'm never touching Kevan's page again >.>.. Also, A typo or two, SA goon*, TMG and The Dead are too close, They want Kathew's Zombie Suggestion Implemented, I would too, But once The Dead, And preferably TMG are dead. Also, Antiquated Bolt Action Rifle? Perhaps a gunpowder sack/bag, Bullets, The rifle itself? Ugh, I had an idea to perhaps make it doable, But, Of course, I forgot it. _■^■ 04:05, 26 May 2008 (BST)

CONGRATULATIONS

Let me be the first to say well done on you first successfull sugestion with the sledge hammer. Even though voting hasnt quite yet finnished - with all those keeps and voting nearing the end I con confidently say it will pass (in my oppinion) - due to real world issues I have been unable to post my updated rifle idea in descussion (but it will be son colosly followed with the cades one). Well done again --Feon Kensai 23:01, 19 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks :) In a day or two you'll be able to thank me for my second suggestion with Free Calling and Charges too :) I'm looking forward to your new suggestions as well --Tselita 19:18, 20 April 2008 (BST)

I just spotted that and read it - an dyou have my keep. Nicly done - youe seem to have passed that one so ... CONGRATULATIONS x2 :P --Feon Kensai 13:58, 21 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks twice :) If I get I think... 2 or 3 more keep votes on speargun you'll be able to say congrats x3 :)--Tselita 15:07, 21 April 2008 (BST)

I realllllly hope that the Military pistol or shotgun ammo suggestions at least as well as speargun... I'd love one of them to do as well as sledge hammer did. Survivors could use a boost to firearms a bit. It's probably harder to get passed because of how zombies can never use firearms, whiler they were able to use a sledgehammer (even though it's not better than using maxed out bite and claws, but then again... what is? :) --Tselita 15:08, 21 April 2008 (BST)

Keep up the good work!

Dear Tselita,

I'm writing this because I've just read through the insanely large amount of crap called Suggestion talk page. While I was reading through the heap of half-thought out bullshit, massive survivor nerfs, and the rather unneccessarily hostile and offending comments by DCC, Grimch, and the rest of the 'goons', I read many of your eloquently put, well-reasoned out ideas and responses to the goon's offending remarks. It seems to me that you are the one of the lonely voices of reason (and pro-survivor oriently, finally!) in the suggestion pages, and that it must be terribly stressful for you to read and respond to all the brazon displays of immaturity from the goons and the majority of hostile wiki-users, which is exactly the kind of stuff that turned me off the suggestion pages for... quite a while now.

Oh... I seem to be rambling on, very sorry about that. Anyways, I'm writing this to tell you: don't give up! There are actually people (like me) that thinks your suggestions and comments are worth quite a lot. Your remarks are politely worded, and actually constructive. Instead of whining post about how bad something is, you actually 'suggest' ideas that would make a suggestion be more balanced and fair for both sides of UD. That kind of constructive comments are hardly to be found on the suggesion talk pages, and I'm asking you to keep up the terrific work for the rest of us normal UD players who actually want to play this game.

To finish off, thank you for taking on the sheer amount of crap put on by the goons and other immature wiki-users so that we did not have to! Don't give up, keep up the good work! The others are bound to mature sooner or later!

Respectfully signed, --Danny lee 01:58, 1 June 2008 (BST)

Ditto. I'm new(ish), but even to me those other guys come off as nothing but jerks. To respond time and time (and time and time...) again with rational and logical statements, well, that's grand. In fact, I created a template for your work. The template is

{{Crusader of Logic}}

I tried to put it here, but I can't get the text-wrap to work the way I want it to. Hope you like. --Blake Firedancer 12:13, 1 June 2008 (BST)

Cool :) I have a fan club! :) And thank you very muchly for the kind words and the template - both of you! :)

Yeah I know I've been the object of ridicule by the Goons - I don't plan on giving up on making suggestions no worries. I'm glad to take on the crap and take the pressure off others - it doesn't bother me that much to be honest... it makes them look retarded instead. Now that they've decided to keep trying to kill my character in game, I'm just tickled pink that they think that actually bothers me.

Personally I feel that Grimch is a major fool who thinks way too much of himself, and DCC's just a little brat, like most of the rest of his Malton globetrotter/Goon friends. None of them gets the concept of a suggestion discussion page being a place to discuss suggestions. I call it the Jerry Springer syndrome. Small minded people who's idea of discussion is insulting and whining. I doubt they'll be maturing any time soon, but I admire your optimism :)

Hopefully I'll see you guys and other like-minded thinkers voting keep on suggestions that the Goons vote reflexively kill. Thank again :) --Tselita 21:41, 1 June 2008 (BST)

That's strange, I thought the Jerry Springer method involved multiple expletives and attempting to use chairs as mallets... XD --Blake Firedancer ^{T E RNL? P.I.S.I.T.} 09:09, 2 June 2008 (BST)

Well they do have the multiple expletives down. And since this is the internet, I'm willing to substitute flinging around antisemitic and sexist remarks for flinging around chairs. And technically, chairs is Geraldo, not Springer. --Tselita 01:25, 3 June 2008 (BST)

I half agree. I like some of your suggestions and it's good that you stand your ground against the "goons" and continue to debate things rationally (well mostly) while they resort to personal abuse. Of course most of your suggestions are rubbish (just like everyone else's, especially mine) and you sometimes spend too long flogging dead horses (like the nailgun idea) but I'd rather see those ideas properly discussed over several days than simply shot down after a few hours and everyone being afraid to mention them again (as often happens.)

I have my own theory about the suggestions section of the wiki and its regular contributors. I managed to get one suggestion into peer reviewed but I'm not really proud of that as it was partly engineered to appeal to the regular contributors, and it appears that PKers are vastly over-represented in that group. My suggestion was obviously a PKer buff but you have to make at least a half-hearted attempt to pretend it isn't (because the voters don't want to brag about being pro-PKer.) It's possible to engineer suggestions to be popular but that's not the same as suggesting the changes you genuinely believe would be best for the game. If I always did that I would have made about 100 suggestions by now, and at least 98 of them would be spaminated. Of course that shouldn't stop me, but in reality it does.

One more thing: I hope you are not Zaphod Beeblebrox but if you are not then someone is expending a lot of time and effort to make it look like you in order to discredit your other contributions. I'd like to say that's highly unlikely but from what I've seen of this wiki, sadly, it isn't. --Explodey 23:38, 2 June 2008 (BST)

I like some of your suggestions and it's good that you stand your ground against the "goons" and continue to debate things rationally (well mostly) while they resort to personal abuse. Of course most of your suggestions are rubbish (just like everyone else's, especially mine) and you sometimes spend too long flogging dead horses (like the nailgun idea) but I'd rather see those ideas properly discussed over several days than simply shot down after a few hours and everyone being afraid to mention them again (as often happens.) - What you say does make sense, though I still think the Nailgun is a good idea. But sometimes when the Goons start attacking certain ideas en masse, it makes me stick to them a lot more when a simple rational response would be more likely to make me drop a suggestion. The Goons are not good at the whole 'rational argument' thing. So they never really convince me. Sometimes you do, as do Pesatyel, Zardoz, Iscariot and a few others. I've even had WanYao convince me once or twice (and we are definitely not people who see eye to eye on anything).

I have my own theory about the suggestions section of the wiki and its regular contributors. I managed to get one suggestion into peer reviewed but I'm not really proud of that as it was partly engineered to appeal to the regular contributors, and it appears that PKers are vastly over-represented in that group. - I'm not a PKer (at least not yet, though I'm considering joining Philosophe Knights or Red Rum once I have some more free time to play), but I loved your Triangulation idea.

My suggestion was obviously a PKer buff but you have to make at least a half-hearted attempt to pretend it isn't (because the voters don't want to brag about being pro-PKer.) - I'm a bit less against PKing than I am against stuff like Life and Death Culting, to be honest. Most movies I've seen do have people go nutso when things get too stressful. I just watched The Mist (not a zombie movie, but an excellent example of how, as one character said "the human race, as a whole, are clinically insane. Take away your 911 and creature comforts and they resort to being savages.") So I don't really mind if PKers use my suggestions to further their ends. Then again, I'm a Dual Nature, so I don't care if I get killed or not anyway.

It's possible to engineer suggestions to be popular but that's not the same as suggesting the changes you genuinely believe would be best for the game. - I think it's pretty obvious that I don't care if I'm popular or not - at least not popular to the Goons and their supporters. If I wanted to be popular with them I'd just become all foul mouthed and make unbalanced suggestions to give Zombies the ability to double their damage with some half-thought-out idea.

Of course that shouldn't stop me, but in reality it does. - I know. I've not put forth some suggestions because I know they'd be spamminated as well. A lot more suggestions I've not put forth because of potential Dupe calls (even if times have changed since the original suggestion or if my suggestion has noted differences.

One more thing: I hope you are not Zaphod Beeblebrox but if you are not then someone is expending a lot of time and effort to make it look like you in order to discredit your other contributions. I'd like to say that's highly unlikely but from what I've seen of this wiki, sadly, it isn't. - I'm definitely not Zaphod Beeblebrox. For all I know he's being played by one of the Goons to start flame wars and also discredit ideas since it would be replaced with flaming all over (I wouldn't put it past them to do something like that), or maybe he is legitimately a trenchy type of survivor player who is on the other spectrum of Goons (the Goon 'counter force?). Or maybe he's just trying to start up stuff and since the Goons react so harshly to my suggestions, responding in my suggestions' comments is a good place to start stuff up. People on the internet like being able to start up fights knowing they can't get physically hurt by them. That's the whole motivation of the Goons - it might be with Zaphod as well. I don't know. Before the nailgun suggestion I never even heard of him (just like I never heard of DrPain or Gardenator). In any case, I'd love to figure a way to PROVE that I am not Zaphod Beeblebrox.

I don't curse people out ever - I don't like cursing in general. My writing style is totally different than his. I'm a lot more wordy, obviously. My user page is drastically different than his. I checked it out and even left him a message on his user page asking him to just ignore the Goons so that the suggestions will time out (because the timer doesn't start to run until there have been no new comments on them). He erased my message just a minute or two after I posted it.

I've already had to deal with people thinking I'm Kamikaze-Bunny as well about a month or so ago when I was defending his ideas. It's the easiest thing in the world for them to accuse me of making alts - but what it really means is they're running out of ways to attack my suggestions when I lessened the amount of times I respond to their stupid comments.

I'm not surprised that the accusation came from Gardenator, despite the fact that the Malton Globetrotters have acted VERY much like what he's accusing me of being.

• First they started by just voting uniformly against my suggestions en masse, usually with sexist or antisemitic comments in the 'reasoning' (if you call their votes 'reasoned').
• Then they started to troll on the Talk page as well, and took to making lengthy attacks on anything I wrote both in voting and in discussion, knowing I very often will respond back and I don't back down.
• Then when work got more busy for me and I stopped responding as often, they took to sending spam on my user page - Zambargh, DCC, Riseabove, DrPain, etc.
• When I decided to delete their junk from my page, or maybe because they felt outclassed, Gardenator and DrPain (if they're not the same people, they sure act alike) started with making the 'mockery suggestions' on the Talk:Discussion page.
• When I wasn't taking the bait, but other people were, Gardenator now has started on calling me an alt abuser/sock puppeteer.
• This most recent attack is the dumbest one - given how they're basically meat puppets themselves, voting as a block, often not even seeming to read the suggestions based on their rationales.
• Oh, I almost forgot, they've also tried going to Grimch with their most recent accusations - at the same time lambasting me when I ask sysops what I should do about them.

They all even started their attacks on every suggestion I make almost uniformly at the same time, and use the same exact 'cartoon' pictures in their sigs (which were made originally by Riseabove - another Goon) ... and Gardenator takes credit for the picture that Riseabove made. Crypsodium has a variation on the same gif in his sig, though animated. Before they start throwing out accusations, they should first take a look at themselves. --Tselita 01:16, 3 June 2008 (BST)

You're welcome

I liked your spear gun suggestion, and those noobs were clearly in need of some reprimanding. Keep up the good work. --Themanwhocares4 23:44, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks :) Much appreciated. I'll be making more suggestions soon as my timer for new suggestions is up. --Tselita 00:18, 16 April 2008 (BST)

Torches

In Australia what you would call 'flashlights' are called torches and the firey kind would either be called torches (and it would be understood through context) or alternatively flaming torches, but really how often do you have to concern yourself with the flaming kind, this is the 21st century.--xoxo 00:19, 30 May 2008 (BST)

Hehe thanks - I appreciate the info. It was seriously killing me not knowing. :) I still think 'flashlights' is the proper term, since Americans created it and marketed it, so should get to name it. ;) --Tselita 00:51, 30 May 2008 (BST)

Hey, Deja Vu... I remember some lengthy debate a while back about someone refering to torches as torches, and someone else reffering to them as flashlights....--Seventythree^Talk 01:00, 30 May 2008 (BST)

how useful is a 'flashing' torch though? I know they do have them but its always struck me as a useless novelty.--xoxo 01:01, 30 May 2008 (BST)

Well, unless you happen to have epilepsy. Then they're pretty dangerous.--Seventythree^Talk 01:04, 30 May 2008 (BST)

73 that happens periodically - in fact the main reason torch suggestions never pass is that theres too much arguing about what they would be called.--xoxo 01:05, 30 May 2008 (BST)

Well, then, we either let the Big Fella of UD (Kevan) decide, or failing that, we could just call them flashlights. I mean, EVERYONE knows what a flashlight is, you can't confuse it with anything else. Unlike a torch, which could either burning cloth, burning zombified flesh or battery powered. --Blake Firedancer 01:33, 30 May 2008 (BST)

Well if he just introduces torches instead of flashlights, then the point is moot since both the British and the Americans agree that those are called TORCHES :) And btw J3D... Hi in the game :) --Tselita 05:31, 30 May 2008 (BST)

True 'dat. --Blake Firedancer 11:16, 30 May 2008 (BST)

Sarah Polley

Forget about that, I've found a new pretty thing. I want one of these please. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 22:46, 13 May 2008 (BST)

What...er... who the heck is that? Something from Hercules or Xena or something? --Tselita 00:15, 14 May 2008 (BST)

That's the future ex-Mrs. Iscariot....currently known as Lee-Anne Liebenberg. Go watch Neil Marshall's Doomsday, I was very happy with that film. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:36, 14 May 2008 (BST)

Actually I was going to go see that movie - I like apocalyptic movies :) And I see that you're channeling Jeff Goldblum. I'll watch it and see what the shipping will be to send that package to you --Tselita 01:07, 14 May 2008 (BST)

You, of course, meant that Jeff was channelling me. Correct? :P -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 01:21, 24 May 2008 (BST)

Yes, that's of course what I meant. --Tselita 16:41, 25 May 2008 (BST)

Shotgun Shells

Here's what I figure you could do to improve your suggestion: You should keep Birshot (rename it Buckshot) keep Bolos and make a new type to use the Birdshot name on. The new Birdshot would be a weak, high accuracy shell. --Hhal 14:27, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Not sure I understand - what would the new birdshot's stats be for low damage, high accuracy? I might consider changing the suggestion to accomodate - the shotgun ammo suggestion is in a very 'working stage' right now. I already eliminated breaching rounds. Btw, I was planning on making a FUTURE suggestion for an MK-13 gun which does high accuracy, low damage bullets which is why I didn't think of a shell like that. --Tselita 14:33, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Well, whatever you want to do. I like the idea of more shotgun shells better, but it's more complicated than a new gun. But, with new guns, there are hardly any guns that haven't been tried already.
For a new Birdshot, here's what I figure the stats could be: 8 damage, 6 with flak; 75% accuracy.
Oh and the BA shotgun. It's your suggestion, whenever you want to take it to Talk:Suggestions is fine with me. --Hhal 14:40, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Technically it's our suggestion That's why I wanted your opinion first. I only improved a bit on a suggestion you were already saying :) As for the new birdshot, I sort of like the stats, but I think people are going to go a little nutty about it, at least if I don't manage to get the 'concept' of different shells approved first. If I do get the concept approved, then I might make a shell like that for a future suggestion. Most people have been advising me to reduce the amount of shell types I'm suggesting, in order to simplify the suggestion. I've thought about jus doing that then making future suggestions with additional shell ideas, like the one you're suggesting maybe. --Tselita 15:20, 14 April 2008 (BST)

PS, I'm amazed that the gun club suggestion's gotten as many keeps as it has. Happy about it too - thought it was going to get killed, now might just be undecided. I think Pesatyel's initial criticism rattled me a bit too much --Tselita 15:24, 14 April 2008 (BST)

I think I'll start fleshing out BA shotgun suggestion in my sandbox. After I've made up a rough draft, lemme know what you think. About the SG shells, yeah, people will read "75%", stop reading, and go vote spam. It probably would be best to just let it ride for awhile, and suggest the Birdshot later. And finally, the Gun Club. I agree, Peststyel (I can never get his name right) was rather harsh. And I am surprised as well how many keep votes it got. Nowhere near enough to pass, but it's a good sign.
Incidently, would you like a templated sig? --Hhal 17:51, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Yeah, even though the suggestion is just stating something that should be obvious, I didn't expect it to be so even between keeps and kills - I'll be happy if it stays at undecided rather than rejected (or of course if it gets a huge influx of keeps and goes to keep), but since it's mainly a flavor suggestion, I'm not as gung ho on getting it passed as I am on, say, Sledge Hammer or the mobile phone idea, or my shotgun ammo idea (or my not-yet-suggested MK-13 or our BA Shotgun idea) As for templated sigs, I'd love one. My coding skills are only a little above that of a dyslexic gerbil, though. --Tselita 18:01, 14 April 2008 (BST)

I've made a basic write-up of the BA shotgun here. Let me know what you think.
I'll start on your sig ASAP. And don't worry about being ignorant about coding, I used to be really bad at it. ;) --Hhal 18:14, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Um...there is a "Pull for revision" template you can use... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:04, 17 April 2008 (BST)

In fact...the instructions on using it are all right here. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:07, 17 April 2008 (BST)

What's it called? lemme check it one sec --Tselita 00:07, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Huh...I think I might have edit conflicted you when I provided you with that link... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:09, 17 April 2008 (BST)

You know...I think the "link" part of that template is suppose to be a link to the revised suggestion, so if that's the case...you may want the "removed" template...The instructions are just above the section of those instructions I gave you. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:13, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Or you can delete the "link" and put down "in the works" or something. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:14, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Axe seriously... I get confused with code really easily and now I'm really confused. What am I supposed to do? How do I fix this? --Tselita 00:18, 17 April 2008 (BST)

It's just a slight deleting and adding thing. If you want, I'll do it. Free of charge, of course. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:19, 17 April 2008 (BST)

OK...we're done here. Move along. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:21, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks, you're a real sweetie --Tselita 00:39, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Um... *Sees Tselita eying the money in Axe's hands* Quit looking at my money. I may have $200 but I'm taken. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:44, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Axe my man, she doesn't care about your money...she wants your cookies and mudkips! 8O --Hhal 00:57, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Speaking of Mudkips... *Tosses Tselita a list* There's a bunch of food they like, and we're out of stock. You know what to do. *Flips a penny into Tselita's hands* And there's your payment for the day. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:00, 17 April 2008 (BST)

Gun Club

Um...you realize that you're allowed only one RE per vote, right? Maybe you should try it's talk page to continue the REing. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 17:13, 12 April 2008 (BST)

oops I ddnt know that. I'll fix it --Tselita 17:14, 12 April 2008 (BST)

I struck the second RE. Just move the comment to the suggestion's talk page. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 17:15, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Can you help me make a link to the suggestion talk pagE? I'm having a problem with it.--Tselita 17:19, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Um...You could have clicked the discussion tab at the top of your suggestion page...Just use the page you made for now. I left a move request to move the stuff to the right page. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 17:23, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks Axe. To be honest I don't care very much about this suggestion anyway. But I'd prefer it to be killed than declared a dupe when there were differences. I care a lot more about the speargun and especially the shotgun ammo ones. Not sure why I havent even removed it yet. --Tselita 17:46, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Look who's back from the dead...

...You were still under contract when I was gone...And the Mudkips had been complaining. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 21:11, 9 May 2008 (BST)

I'm making it up to them by getting them the expensive gourmet mudkips chow. --Tselita 19:44, 11 May 2008 (BST)

Let's see...I was gone for about 3 weeks, so...I owe you 21 cents. Here's an IOU. *Scribbles IOU on a piece of paper* --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:20, 12 May 2008 (BST)

You spoil me. Really, you do. --Tselita 19:39, 12 May 2008 (BST)

Of course...I have another contract here...It says something about raising your pay to 2 cents. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 11:02, 13 May 2008 (BST) {{c|white|And it also says something about you having to clean up after the Mudkips. That includes when they're done with the bathroom.

Yay, maybe the raise'll help with the people from SA and the Malton Globetrotters who seem to be voting en masse against my nailgun idea without even bothering to read it. Mega trolling :/ They seem to only be voting on MY ideas, just so they can vote kill. How nice that DCC goes through so much trouble huh - maybe I can throw the mudkips waste at him or something meh --Tselita 16:12, 13 May 2008 (BST)

Ah! My white ink turned into black ink! No! My plans were ruined! Anyway, a Sysops can strike out an inane vote, that is, if they think it's inane. But then again, you could always take the Dead to Arbitration. You know. Have an arbitration case to resolve the conflict. Of course, you need to choose an unbiased arbitrator...And the Dead will definitely not choose me. Because they think I'm biased. <sarcasm>Yea. I'm biased alright. I'd do anything to try and help the zombies win in Malton. Too bad the Dead thinks that's too biased, or else I wouldn't be killing the survivors.</sarcasm> --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 22:25, 13 May 2008 (BST)

Stuff

Well...My sig says it...But I'm not sure if I should give you one because of this contract you signed...Ah, what the hell.

	A FREE COOKIE
	Axe Hack has given Tselita a cookie for stuff.

--•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:10, 11 April 2008 (BST)

If I was to die of cookie-related hunger I wouldn't have the strength to feed your mudkips army anymore, now would I? --Tselita 20:15, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Um...it says in the contract that you'll get paid a penny a day. *Flips a penny into Tselita's hands* So use that penny wisely. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:19, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Thank goodness, now I'll be able to pay for my dear old granny's operation. (unrelated note, have you read my new suggsetion yet about shotgun ammo?)--Tselita 20:21, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Haven't been there yet, but I have been there on the talk page. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:23, 11 April 2008 (BST)

Well I havent put the suggestion up for voting yet - it's still in the Talk:Discussion page, but the Talk:Discussion page seemed to be messed up right now.... --Tselita 22:38, 11 April 2008 (BST)

That seems to happen weekly...And wasn't my evil twin the one who said dump the breaching round? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 14:27, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Cheers for the SMG feedback!

Just to let you know, thanks for the comments, I br'd your wall o' comments to make them easier to read. Hope you don't mind. Charlie Jackpot 20:13, 21 April 2008 (BST)

I don't mind at all. I'm good at suggestions and ideas, but I suck when it comes to coding and edits. :) Your suggestion is really good, especially the new edit. --Tselita 20:40, 21 April 2008 (BST)

Oh and don't get too discouraged by Pesatyel. He can sometimes be very snippy (and has been to me in the past too) but he does usually make at least a few good comments - I usually keep his comments in mind when I'm making my weapons suggestions. Just take the stuff he says constructively and ignore if he swears or insults :) --Tselita 20:43, 21 April 2008 (BST)

^^ Cheers. I was angry at first, but when I read what he had to say again, he made me realise I'd screwed up something fierce in the description. Ah, we live and learn. Charlie Jackpot 21:29, 21 April 2008 (BST)

Yes, Pesatyel can do that to people, especially when he includes cursing and insults in his comments, but his comments still do have merit. :) I hope that you don't give up on the SMG idea --Tselita 21:33, 21 April 2008 (BST)

No fear there. I have very little time on my hands, so I can spend a few hours tinkering with this some more. Charlie Jackpot 07:56, 22 April 2008 (BST)

Well I'll be putting my M-11 PIstol up for voting very soon. Just working out the last few kinks. --Tselita 04:40, 25 April 2008 (BST)

Easy there...

I know you're pissed, but don't let those bums killing your speargun suggestion get to you. If you're mean to even one of them, all that one's friends will get on and vote spam just to spite you. --Hhal 00:58, 15 April 2008 (BST)

I'm only pissed because they resorted to insults, not because they voted kill. Actually, pissed is the wrong word, I'm just a bit irked, but I'd rather zing them back when they zing me. In a battle of wits, they are only half armed --Tselita 01:05, 15 April 2008 (BST)

You're smart girl, and very witty. But I'm telling you, don't react to their inane insults. It will only get their goons angry. Trust me, I learned this lesson with my own suggestions. --Hhal 01:13, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Hard to just let them yammer away when they're outright just calling me stupid. What sort of vote is that? Suggestion: Here's my suggestion. Riseabove's Answer: You're stupid! Wanyao's answer: Har har I wanna piss you off har har. What are they... 3 years old? Sad thing - if WanYao had quit while he was ahead, I might have actually been pissed :) But now I feel that it's would be funny (in a pathetic way) that that's the best they can come up with :) At least Pesatyel made a genuine vote reason, even if it was a kill. But those other two are just acting like infants. I'll try to ignore their prattling though. --Tselita 05:02, 15 April 2008 (BST)

FU budday!

yup, we sure as hell do. dual nature is a good policy so we tend to support it, even tho most of our members behave badly when revived (myself included) and because of that we seldom last long once revived, a Feral Undead group tag tends to get you shot just as dead as if you were still a zombie. altho we are ok with you taking the tag out while revived if you wish to stay alive. we have very lax policies about game play, so even just wandering around on your own is fine, group activities are optional. but hell, even a non group member can posts or check for hotspots to keep up on open buildings. (altho for that you would need a forum account) --Bullgod 04:28, 25 April 2008 (BST)

Thanks - I think I'm going to make a new zombie then, but she'll still be Dual Nature. I just really prefer playing Dual Nature - I tend to do things which I consider 'Romero-esque' and I just don't feel right about playing a survivor who HELPS zombies anymore than I would about playing a zombie who helps survivors. It just doesn't make sense to me. :) I'm hoping that having one of my characters in a zombie group will give me an alternate perspective to that which I've gotten from seeing The Dead's M.O. Two more questions - 1) What's the Feral Undead website (if I make an account I'd do it under this name)? 2) Are any of the hotspots in Houldenbank or Buttonville, because my existing characters are in those two suburbs right now (ironically, the survivor's currently dead, and the zombie's currently revived) --Tselita 04:39, 25 April 2008 (BST)

1. well its on our page but here, http://theferalundead.proboards80.com/ and as for 2. not currently, but that always changes. many of us are down at Fort Perryn now for like the 17th time, your welcomed to join in. (altho i remember you posted on its page so i assume your playing harman there.--Bullgod 06:26, 25 April 2008 (BST)

Nah I'm not playing a harman at Perryn - but my non-group zombie had been in Miltown so I needed to run her back to Buttonville where I usually keep her. I decided to buzz past the fort to see the status and saw only 9 zombies outside. Just got her back home - I'll be bringing my babah zombah so FU can try to make her grow up big and strong. --Tselita 16:53, 29 April 2008 (BST)

okay I finally got my zombie to Perryn. She got revived and killed twice along the way, so when I got there I broke character for my only time that I will be doing so and requested that someone kill her :) Probably could have entered and gotten myself a flak jacket but I'd like to at least -start- from being a zombie since I made her as a zombie to start with and joined FU with her, after all. --Tselita 06:29, 2 May 2008 (BST)

Thxs tselita

id like to say thxs for your advice but i am currently building on a few ideas and when they come out i hope you and the rest of the wiki community like them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fanglord2 (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

I'd be happy to :) I look forward to reading them. Btw Fanglord2, after you post, please in the future sign (by putting --~~~~ after what you post - thank you :) --Tselita 13:50, 29 May 2008 (BST)

Or...you can just throw in that unsigned template like what I just did, Tselita... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:30, 11 June 2008 (BST)

I wrote that response to him a few weeks ago :) Thanks though Axe. --Tselita 23:48, 11 June 2008 (BST)

Eh...I'm always the late comer. Heck, I'm always about 5 minutes late to my first period class everyday! --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:26, 12 June 2008 (BST)

Hey

Just checking to say hi. I've been AWOL lately because I've been really busy with my group, the ACC. In addition to playing UD, we also just started a division in Dead Frontier. Plus, my personal life has gotten nuts lately. So, yeah, I'm pretty busy.
Sorry about not getting the sig done. Give me some specifications (color, font, etc) and I'll make it up.
Oh, and thanks for the cookie. :D --Hhal 18:11, 7 May 2008 (BST)

No problem. If you want, I have a few suggestions up for voting - The Tumbler Slug, Memories of Life NT Update (todays' the last day for it I think), and Nail Gun and Clips - if you can, please vote :) Keep, preferably. --Tselita 18:32, 7 May 2008 (BST)

Ok, I voted. :D --Hhal 00:30, 8 May 2008 (BST)

You're going to probably need to vote again on the nailgun idea - a bunch of idiots sock-puppeted on the votes there so of the 72 Keep votes total, only 59 seemed to be genuine. Sucks, but I'm improving the nailgun suggestion. I doubt it will win over any Malton Globetrotters or Dead voters, but there are a few other kill voters who I think it will sway to the other side - ones who made legitimate reasons for their kill votes (even though I still disagreed with them, at least they were being reasonable). I'll be putting the new nailgun idea up soon, probably within the next week or so.--Tselita 06:14, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Butting In

All kinds of stuff. Theres group out there that specailise in different tactics, like combat revive etc. Swiers does a lot of helpful things, like his new scent death map thats also goes a long way in showing your involvement/understanding. Lots of people think about guides and ideas, and its something that always changes as new skills get implemented.

Sorry to butt in, but theres lots of META stuff out there. Or you can always kick off your own project. An easy idea to get you started is to look at the suburb pages, find one thats neglected and have a go at updating the buildings history's, pictures, etc. A wiki is only as good as its information, How confident do you feel? Anything that interests you especially? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:07, 9 May 2008 (BST)

I'm actually thinking of making a Guide on How to Hold a Fort (including dealing with Trenchcoaters and using their annoyingness to a Survivor Group's benefit), or maybe a guide to staying alive using a combinatino of Urban Warfare and River Tactics - as a counter-tactic to Grim's guide. Not sure yet - I write my stuff when I'm at work usually during my downtime. I'm a legal secretary, so when the cases are not happening, or when my boss is in court and my work is done, I have spare time. Plus I type very fast, and can think as I type.

I've also thought about updating building's histories, but I think I'd probably need to be a lot more active in the game than I already am. --Tselita 06:11, 22 May 2008 (BST)

Personally, I'd like to get my Necrotech worker involved in a group which would specialize in DIRT:NAPs. For all my pro-survivor talk, I think I tend in the game to do more for zombies since most of my XP is gained from killing them (I don't believe in Life Culting any more than I do in Death Culting, so I've yet to attack another zombie when I'm a zombie).--Tselita 23:53, 12 June 2008 (BST)

Your Navbar

Hey, I just noticed something about your Navbar. It's floating around outside the page colors. Would you like me to fix that? --Hhal 01:59, 16 April 2008 (BST)

I'm gonna add to what Hhal said...You could have used {{User:Tselita/Nav}} instead of writing down the entire code. Of course, that would be possible if you move all that code to the Nav page... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 02:19, 16 April 2008 (BST)

Yes please, can someone fix it. I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to code --Tselita 04:42, 16 April 2008 (BST)

All fixed! :) --Hhal 17:10, 16 April 2008 (BST)

Your user page

I think you have a very cool user page, what do you think of my user page.--Jamie Cantwel3 17:34, 12 April 2008 (BST)

I say to start stealing codes from other users. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 17:36, 12 April 2008 (BST)

I like your user page too, especially the noob vs newb part. And axe I didn't steal code. Now I know you're just trying to mess with my head :) --Tselita 17:48, 12 April 2008 (BST)

That message was meant for Jamie...By the way...If there's a code I want to steal, it's in Gnome's page. Now to steal it without him noticing... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 17:50, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Wow, that -is- nice code. Too nice for me to even think of stealing. Way too complicated for my fragile mind. --Tselita 17:52, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Do you both like the quotes? I'm thinking of putting more quotes up --Tselita 17:53, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Not now. I'm at peace preparing for war. Come back again when I'm at war preparing for peace... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 17:58, 12 April 2008 (BST)

(pause) You're a very .... special .... person, you know that right Axe? --Tselita 18:06, 12 April 2008 (BST)

BTW, I do know you got that from Sun Tzu as well, Axe :) --Tselita 01:02, 13 April 2008 (BST)

Aye, but I did change the wording around a little...So you really can't consider it plagiarism. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:21, 15 April 2008 (BST)

I like the quotes, you should put more up.--Jamie Cantwel3 00:02, 13 April 2008 (BST)

Re: Author Keep

Cheers for the support - I did this last thing at a internet cafe, so I didn't have any more time to vote. Heres hoping this gets through! Charlie Jackpot 07:59, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Looks like it probably will :) The only ones who have voted kill are generally going to kill anything helpful to survivors anyway (plus I don't feel they matter much in general anyway), and the dupe votes are non-issues since your suggestion is original, mechanics wise and intent wise, so not a dupe at all. So you have 18 votes so far. Very nice, and also a very nice suggestion you've made I'm hoping my Sledgehammer and Free Calling votes pass as well. (they look like they will). Not so sure about the gun club or speargun passing, but I consider those two suggestions more 'flavouring' weapons anyway. In any case, I totally look forward to seeing more suggestions like the lockboxes! --Tselita 08:30, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Arg, thanks for covering my ass. It's actually my second suggestion, but I thought it'd be better if I ran it through Discussion first. Thanks for holding my hand - I'm a bit of a spazz with Wiki editing. Good luck with your suggestions, also, you've got a good mind for UD stuff. Charlie Jackpot 16:20, 15 April 2008 (BST)

hehe no problem. I'm just doing what people like Airborne and Hhal and Axe Hack did for me :) Airborne was the first person to really help me out here, Hhal helped me to make my user page, and Axe Hack helped me with templates. Plus they're all cool people. I've only been doing wiki a couple of weeks now as well. Been playing UD for about 3 months, but I took the time to read through a lot of past suggestions to see the flow of things here, especially after me first couple of suggestions bombed bigtime because I didn't go through Talk:Discussion first. Keep up the great work --Tselita 16:40, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Archiving

Maybe you should consider archiving your talk before it gets any longer and annoyinger to load... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 22:42, 15 April 2008 (BST)

And how do I do that Axe? --Tselita 22:44, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Make an Archive page, (for you, that would probably be User:Tselita/Archive) and pretty much copy and paste all your unwanted stuff that you don't want to delete there. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 22:47, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Did I mention by the time the stuff is in the Archive, you can just delete them from this page? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 22:54, 15 April 2008 (BST)

How will I be able to access them again if I move it to that page? Is there a way to make a button or something like you have? --Tselita 23:01, 15 April 2008 (BST)

What? You mean a navigation bar? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:05, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Yeah. A navigation bar. Remember, I am horrible at coding. --Tselita 23:30, 15 April 2008 (BST)

First, you would want a Navigation page, like User:Tselita/Nav. Next, try this code: <div align=center> {| style="background: COLOR; border: 1px solid COLOR;border-spacing: 0px; clear: both; font-style: italic; margin-bottom: 20px; text-align: center; width: WIDTH SIZE px" | [[User:Tselita|Main]] | [[User talk:Tselita|Talk]] | [[User:Tselita/Archive|Archive]] | [[User:Tselita/Nav|Navigation]] |} </div align=center> Just change the capitalized stuff and the links to your heart's desires. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:39, 15 April 2008 (BST)

Stuff

Firstly, stop saying nice things about me, it'll ruin my reputation.

Well done on getting a zombie character and join the Feral Undead (Vultures are fucking cool), I just thought I'd comment on some things I'd seen. You mentioned on Bullgod's page that you disapproved of RRF's mass death culting tactics. The RRF has very strict rules on death culting, only the Gore Corps strike team are permitted to death cult, and their numbers are capped at 40. They do not spy for the rest of the horde and anything a normal horde member learns after being combat revived is not shared with the horde.

Good luck with your zed, I've never had any direct dealings with Bullgod I believe, but he and his group are well respected by the zombie fraternity. You might also want to check out the RRF now you know the limitations on their death cultists, though if you're vehemently set against death culting, the MOB will always have a place for you.

You may want to check out barhah.com, one of the major zombie forums, home to RRF, MOB, BB2 and WTE when it was active. We're welcoming of all players over there, provided they're intelligent. Another forum would be beerhah.com, the survivor analogue to barhah.com, lots of nice people over there (also frequented by Fifth Element, a proven girl on the interwebs :P).

Now you've got a zed, the next step is a PKer, you know you want to.... -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 01:06, 1 May 2008 (BST)

I'm seriously considering it, though I'd probably base who I kill with a PKer character on who has the dumbest names or who acts the dumbest in the game. Not sure I'd want to be a 'totally at random' killer. Serial killing is the way to go! Kill every person who's name starts with R, or something. --Tselita 06:31, 2 May 2008 (BST)

Peruse the list of groups and see if you can find something that takes your fancy. Just remember, every zombie you've killed is controlled by a player. PKing is a term used by hypocrites to allow them to murder whilst denouncing those who do it freely. Getting a PK character is the first step to understand this. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 17:09, 2 May 2008 (BST)

To be honest, playing a dual nature character means I don't really get angry when I get PKed, because I just keep on playing as a zombie. But i've never killed a survivor as a survivor, or a zombie as a zombie, except once when someone was trying to kill me and he ran out of ap or something and so I shotgunned him to death. I had 4 HP left when he ran out :) I'll check out the groups, but I'm still leaning towards Red Rum since I respect them already. --Tselita 17:47, 2 May 2008 (BST)

A little help for you

To get rid of a page like this on go here: (http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Speedy_Deletions) Make sure you save all the stuff you have in this page in word or something so you don't have to write it again.--Jamie Cantwel3 08:16, 12 April 2008 (BST)

P.S I read what Airborne88 said under the last thing I put in this talk page, sorry I did not mean to sound rude in anyway.--Jamie Cantwel3 08:25, 12 April 2008 (BST)

It's okay, I didn't think you were intending to be rude. At least you didn't swear at me or act rude like Pesatyel did in that 'gun club' vote. I wasn't sure of the protocol, I've only been doing this for about 12 days now. I'm still a wiki novice. BTW, how do you like my user page? --Tselita 08:28, 12 April 2008 (BST)

I would like to know how many people you stole codes from. Because some of it looks like my code... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:06, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Wha? I didn't steal any code from anyone. Hhal made the blue background and initial template for me, and I filled in the words. --Tselita 16:51, 12 April 2008 (BST)

Um....I think it's feeding time. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:58, 12 April 2008 (BST)

*gets the bucket to feed the mudkips army.....* (you don't really think I stole code, right?) --Tselita 17:07, 12 April 2008 (BST)

You'll never know. And you're gonna need more than one bucket. No wonder they've been hungry all day... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 17:10, 12 April 2008 (BST)

I made the code mostly from scratch, I didn't steal it from anyone. Some of it I copied from my own userpage, but that's not exactly stealing. --Hhal 17:53, 14 April 2008 (BST)

The NT Update suggestion

Pesatyel, I'm a bit confused. I thought you liked the suggestion - you said "It makes sense to me. I think Memories of Life needs to be improved anyway. I mean it's called Memories of Life, not Memories of Doorknobs" ... I'm not really understanding why you voted kill if you liked the idea and felt that MoL needs to be improved. --Tselita 07:12, 26 April 2008 (BST)

I just feel this would hurt players in a way. I do believe MoL needs improvement, I just don't think THIS particular way works well for that, based on all the reading and discussion. I'm not sure I can explain at the momemt (I"ve got a bad headache and need to get some sleep since I've only been getting like 4 hours a night and I have to be up early). But one thing that came to mind was that zombies are "getting smarter" and this would make low levels "dumb" if they managed to get revived and obtain NT Employment before MoL. I just feel it would be best if it was a "starting effect" rather than something that suddenly pops up 2 years after the quarantine started. My comment about MALTON was that I believe Monroeville should be "restarted" as there are a lot of suggestions that get killed because they don't "fit" as suddenly appearing in Malton so long into the quarantine. The kinds of suggestions that would actually work if the game started fresh. This seems like one of them. Not sure that makes any sense. Maybe I'll rethink things over the weekend, once I get a good night's sleep.--Pesatyel 07:27, 26 April 2008 (BST)

Okay please do reconsider it. Part of the reason I put it up for a vote was I thought you liked the idea. I honestly doubt it'll change anything about higher level zombies (it won't make them dumber, it'll just change the rules by which they recognize NTs - most higher levels already have MoL). You and I both know that Kevan isn't going to 'restart Malton' - if we used that sort of reasoning to kill ideas, we wouldn't be getting any new suggestions implemented at all. The whole idea of things 'popping up' is the only way we can deal with the new suggestions - it's been done for Ankle Grab, the syringes going from 1AP to 10AP, the anti-barracade zombie free actions, etc. This particular suggestion is only a minor rule change. Thanks in advance for thinking it over, gnight --Tselita 07:37, 26 April 2008 (BST)

C.R.A.P.

Its a good page for a good idea (none written or thought up by me, mind.) We're organising as The Big Prick (a group mass reviving suburb by suburb in the wake of zombie hordes) over at beerhah.com, so come and have a look if the idea appeals. cheers, Garum 08:16, 23 May 2008 (BST)

I'd like to take part in that with my main character :) --Tselita 14:22, 23 May 2008 (BST)

A Template for you.

	POINTLESS LOL
	This user or group supports the proper use of the Spam Vote for the most utterly ridiculous suggestions. They also realize that a Spam Vote is not a Strong Kill.

I made it shortly after I put my suggestion, Number Groups v2.1 up for voting. You would not believe the drama caused by that suggestion. ;) --Hhal 14:47, 14 April 2008 (BST)

THANK YOU! :) I'll add it to my templates page! --Tselita 15:21, 14 April 2008 (BST)

Non-Suggestion Contributions

I suspect you may be getting a bit of "tunnel vision" on suggestions. That's not abnormal; its what drew me to the wiki as well. The problem is, it leads to drama and over-investment in the importance of suggestions and voting.
Might I suggest looking for other wiki projects to get involved in? Article authorship, meta-group membership? ␏ needs help pretty badly, for example. I;ve found that, in the long run, influencing the game by swaying PLAYERS opinions about tactics, and by contributing to / creating sources of information, is more rewarding than trying to get Kevan to change the game rules through suggestions. Its also possible that Kevan looks a bit more seriously at suggestions authored by people who have proven they have a deep understanding of / made contributions to others playing the game.
Mind you, I haven;t bothered to track down your contributions; it is possible you already do this. I just speak from my own expereince when I was at a similar level of wiki use (time wise and quantity wise) as you seem to be.  Swiers 18:23, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Actually I'm not terribly good at wiki editting, so I don't really understand some of the stuff you just mentioned. Can you explain them to me? Do you mean like writing a wiki guide to survivors and stuff like that?--Tselita 18:32, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Archive...

...seriously. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:00, 8 June 2008 (BST)

Secondedededededededed--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 19:32, 11 June 2008 (BST)

Okay okay I will. I hate cleaning house... --Tselita 19:47, 11 June 2008 (BST)

OK...when I said archive...I really meant most of the page has to go...Not just every few bits here and there... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 22:54, 12 June 2008 (BST)

I'm working on it, I'm working on it. I do this stuff from work remember :) --Tselita 23:04, 12 June 2008 (BST)

You know...you could hit the big giant edit tab at the top of the page and c+p everything outta here... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 23:35, 12 June 2008 (BST)

I could. But I don't wanna. Some stuff I want to keep on my discussion page, and I like to separate the stuff in the archive anyway --Tselita 00:04, 13 June 2008 (BST)

You like things neat, huh? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:18, 13 June 2008 (BST)

When archiving or putting junk away, yeah. :) You should see how I organize my game collection... --Tselita 00:20, 13 June 2008 (BST)

Now I'm wondering if I should book you the first flight to the US just so you can clean my room... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:22, 13 June 2008 (BST)

Um... I'm from the US too :) But if you live in Hawaii or somewhere nice with a good beach for me to relax on, I'll take you up on the offer. I like cleaning and organizing stuff way too much. --Tselita 00:27, 13 June 2008 (BST)

No...I just ran through your user page....I live in New York too! --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:31, 13 June 2008 (BST)

Dangit, I wouldn't even get a free flight out of it? --Tselita 00:48, 13 June 2008 (BST)

No. Just take the painfully crowded buses. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:56, 13 June 2008 (BST)

I'll have my people talk to your people about that --Tselita 00:57, 13 June 2008 (BST)

You're still under contract. Remember? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:00, 13 June 2008 (BST)

And I've been feeding the mudkips quite faithfully on the penny --Tselita 01:07, 13 June 2008 (BST)

Didn't you read the part which was only readable with a high powered microscope? It says that I can summon you to do my biddings whenever I call. I'm calling now. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:12, 13 June 2008 (BST)

Hrm I thought that was just a speck of dust.... --Tselita 01:17, 13 June 2008 (BST)

* Takes out a copy of the contract with a high powered microscope* Why don't you see for yourself? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:20, 13 June 2008 (BST)

It's okay, I'll just use my magnifying glass instead. One sec, I need to read it while out in the sun :) .... --Tselita 01:23, 13 June 2008 (BST)

Don't worry if you burn it. As it is only a copy. I have the original safe and sound. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:26, 13 June 2008 (BST)

Funny- Not Snarky?

I belive you. You are the kind of person to be funny, not snarky. Grim, on the other hand... --UCFSD 15:20, 9 June 2008 (BST)

You have obviously never met #RedRum Grimchy....--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 19:31, 11 June 2008 (BST)

I tend to not want to meet Grimmchy in any incarnation --Tselita 23:30, 12 June 2008 (BST)

Talks with the PKers - Nice!

Shoes for Sale (Red Rum Habadashery)

Red Rum! Huzzah. Nice work on the suggestions, I generally read it if you've written it. If you want to join, feel free to chuck whichever character you like in. Characters with all the gun skillz are generally a better choice.

If you want us to kill folks who irritate your good self, simply post on the Rum forums or give a shout in the IRC. If they're particularly foolish, it's reasonably likely some Rummers will turn up and amuse themselves with them. It's also reasonably likely we'll shoot your good self too (and each other en route). Mmm.

As a group, we meander and wander. We like to keep our esteemed leader (The Dancing Banana) confused.

Huzzah! --Karloth Vois TALK ^RR 19:54, 9 May 2008 (BST)

LOL. Okay thanks :) --Tselita 20:09, 9 May 2008 (BST)

Join Us--/~Rakuen~\^Talk I Still Love Grim 19:18, 19 May 2008 (BST)

PKer Question

I think you may be mistaken about how some PKers act. Most of the big groups, such as Philosophe Knights or Flat Earth Society, are composed of some of the most intelligent people I've met in my years of gaming.

That aside, you asked how to make a successful PKer. "Success" is a relative term. What would you like to be successful at? Do you want renown? Or does massacring an entire corner of a mall sound like fun? It's all about what you want to get out of it.

Why don't you come to our forums and ask there. We host several PKer groups there and I am sure that they wouldn't mind the question. Or check out Zoe Gorefest's Guide for the Career PKer.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  01:05, 27 April 2008 (BST)

I think I'll take you up on that offer. :) --Tselita 06:26, 2 May 2008 (BST)

I don't know if you ever took User:BillyClubThorton up on his invitation, but it's worth doing. I found the folks on Red Rum to be surprisingly polite, friendly, and cheerful. It's an oddly supportive group of miscreants over there. Plus, as he says, there are huge, HUGE differences in how people play PKers. I'm not a big fan of some groups like the Columbine Kids or the like who seem to be little more than immature griefers, but he mentions some really cool folks like the Philosophe Knights and the Flat Earth Society, and there are really odd cases like Pathetic Bill and SillyLillyPilly that add to the flavor of the game. I myself play a psychotic serial "hunter" and cult leader, and my entire goal was just to be a believable, scary villain who was nevertheless not a griefer or an abject pain in the ass. -- Voudan Curn 22:19, 15 May 2008 (BST)

I'm planning on doing it actually, soon as the weekend comes - work has been really busy for me this week. :) And yes, I definitely do not want to play a griefer, which is why I'd probably gravitate to pkers like Red Rum or Philosophe Knights. I like Red Rum because I've seen them kill people and they do it with style and flair. I also recently saw one of them spare a person because his description was so ludicrous that he said to the entire room that he 'was the first person he'd ever spared.' Never heard of the Flat Earth Society before he mentioned them, actually. I promise I'll check out the forum this weekend as I decide whether to make a new character or just turn one of my existing ones into a PKer (so far I have 3 characters - two are dual natures, though one tends to be more survivor than the other, and the third is a dual nature zombie but she's Feral Undead). I'll probably just change over one of my existing characters because otherwise I'd hit the IP limit too often. --Tselita 22:28, 15 May 2008 (BST)

Cool. Obviously, there's no rush; it's a forum. I, too, think griefer PKers are pretty immature and detrimental to the game, but I think clever PKers add to the flavor of UD and the apocalyptic atmosphere. After all, how creepy is it when you can't rely on the people you're hiding with not to kill you in your sleep? How much creepier is it to come back to your screen and see that they went out of their way to talk to you before they killed you, explaining their insane reasons for murder? That's how legends are made on this game -- the only real celebrities to speak of are PKers. -- Voudan Curn 01:43, 16 May 2008 (BST)

Which, again, is why I like Red Rum. :) They always have the funniest stuff to say. --Tselita 06:40, 16 May 2008 (BST)

Philosophe Knights

Apologies for my laxity, but I had pressing real world issues that had to be handled. Per your request on my talk page you wish to learn of the Philosophe Knights, yes? While we may not be as witty and 'funny' as Red Rum, we aim to be more refined and selective in our process. As you may have noticed, we like to focus on the intellectual side of education, and also like to focus on certain individuals worth of "education". We also aim to follow certain ideas behind the education of said individuals. My recommended reading, is our ideas on life in general. If you have further questions, feel free to contact me or other Knights. Thank you for your time. -- T^HEL^ORDG^UNS^LINGER 00:43, 24 May 2008 (BST)

Everything you need to know about the Philosophe Knights: I'm in the Order. :D -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 01:22, 24 May 2008 (BST)