UDWiki:General Discussion/Archive

This is an archive of old discussions from the General Discussion page.

Let's see if this works

Testing if my url hackage to allow the use of the + button on a regular page worked. Looks like it did.

Everyone okay with this (particularly the big blue box above)? Linkthewindow  Talk  08:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Add some big pretty links to CP and stuff. We should try and integrate all the community links within one another's pages. It'll promote usage. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 11:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll add a navigation bar, somewhere then. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:16, 30 March 2009 (BST)

AP loss for actions that don't actually require things to be done

I've noticed after reading some suggestions such as "make clicking spray can less painful and more helpful" that certain people have a view that losing an AP for clicking a spray can, for example, is a good sort of negative reinforcement, and that the AP loss that results from said clicking will discourage you from making the "mistake" again. Why should clicking on something that doesn't do anything have an AP penalty? If someone suggested having no AP cost for speaking (which really does make sense, as speaking doesn't require much energy or action at all, other than opening your mouth), I would have to disagree as making speaking "free" would result in a lot of random useless conversations pertaining to people's mothers. However, I don't see why clicking on something that doesn't do anything (like clicking your binoculars in a building other than a tower) costs an AP. The only reason I can see that people would advocate such a penalty is like I said above; as a penalty and discouragement from making the "mistake" again. However, I feel that (for actions that don't result in any effect to players other than the person clicking, such as the binoculars or spray can example) this shouldn't result in an AP penalty, as simply pressing the wrong button shouldn't take up energy or whatever AP symbolizes. In fact, I'm pretty sure that using up one of your 160 daily hits allowed on the main page is enough of a punishment to anyone who clicks on something that doesn't actually do anything. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ScaredPlayer (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Quantifying Danger

So, I've recently been messing about with my EMR Bot to allow me to more easily update the danger level of suburbs based on the given report. I'm having it pull up suburb news so I can take that into account obviously, but for suburbs whose news is too outdated to affect the current report, having the bot automatically select a half decent status would be handy. I can always manually change the status based on what I see, or can instruct it to just leave the suburb alone if needed. What I'm really trying to get at here is: given statistics from an EMR, and given no other recent info, what danger levels would a human user tend to choose? Personally, I think the current descriptions are a little off given their age and trends in gameplay (very dangerous should be 100 zombies since there are less players these days, and ghost town should have a lower "max zombie" limit, 60 zombies in a dead suburb is pretty dangerous)

Anyway, for the uninitiated, the current descriptors read as follows:

• Safe - Break-ins rare, max 50+ zombies in suburb and no zombie groups above 10.
• Moderately Dangerous - Active zombies and break-ins, but no 50+ hostile hordes.
• Dangerous - Zombies inside many resource buildings; OR hostile mobs of 50+.
• Very Dangerous - Most buildings wide open or zombie-infested; OR hostile zombie mobs of 150+.
• A Ghost Town - At least 2/3rds of the suburb's buildings either Empty of Survivors or Ransacked/Ruined AND having no zombie mobs of over 10 and no total zombies over 60.

For those unfamiliar with EMR, you might wish to pay a visit to EMRP and read up on what the shorthand means. Anyway, I started with the basic idea that the four infrastructure levels can map pretty neatly onto the four danger levels. *** being safe and --- being V.Dangerous. This makes sense.

Next comes accounting for zombies, any suburb is V.Dangerous if it has 150+ zombies in. Dangerous if it has 50+. These are stated. I prefer 100+ for V.Dangerous myself. One can logically extend this basis whereby certain levels of zombies present moderate danger or safety given certain infrastructure. Infrastructure of **- is usually moderate danger, but no zombies in the area? Then it's safe anyway.

Next comes fitting in the unusual ghost town. This isn't as hard as it first seems, a suburb with little to no infrastructure is dangerous to survivors, but at the same time a low zombie presence offers some sense of safety. So for *-- and --- suburbs with low zombie numbers, we can use this designation handily to avoid the weirdness of trying to use moderate or standard danger.

I have given a rough diagram of the actual numbers I would use in my sandpit. It should be pretty self explanatory, infrastructure levels along the top, zombies down the side and the colour gives the danger level. If you were updating a danger level based on a report, would your status tend to fit the diagram, or would it vary significantly? --  RoosterDragon  01:08, 31 March 2009 (BST)

Maybe, you have to take into account of who the zombies are and where they are located. A mob of 125 zombies is fairly dangerous, but if all they're doing is sitting outside a mall, then they're not posing as much of a threat to the suburb as a whole. I might say moderate, instead of dangerous or very dangerous. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 20:38, 3 April 2009 (BST)

Aye, and I would agree, but say I wasn't privy to such info because the burb news hadn't been updated in a while and so I only have the report for reference. I would be stuck with my initial assumption. Although the program suggests a status, I have it look up the recent 'burb news for just such info so I can adjust the level manually if I need to. Regardless, given even just 100 zombies, I would always go for V.Dangerous no matter how intact the 'burb. The core question of my discussion however, being "Would you?" --  RoosterDragon  20:54, 3 April 2009 (BST)

If someone told me there was "100 zombies in the 'burb" I would go by whatever the guideline said (so V.Dangerous). I suppose, it should be defaulted to the guideline, unless there is reason to change it? --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 20:59, 3 April 2009 (BST)

PLEASE remember that EMR don't include zeds inside buildings. both ghost towns and "Safe" Zones with groups of 20+ zombies in a single building aren't really covered. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:00, 3 April 2009 (BST)

I know that, but without omnipotence or somebody with a recent update on suburb news, I won't know that there are 20 zeds in wherever. If my choice is a not-totally-informed, but recent, EMR or an outdated bit of suburb news (whose accuracy varies). I personally would go with the EMR every time. However, in order to account for likely zombies in buildings, one might suggest that as a burb gets progressively more ruined I should assume a certain proportion of zombies are inside, thus things become more dangerous more quickly based on this limited info. And I assume higher levels of danger at lower zombies counts. In my diagram, the green/yellow/orange blocks shrink in size a bit and red takes over even more room. --  RoosterDragon  21:19, 3 April 2009 (BST)

Fair enough. Unless a bit of recent news contradicts the EMR, I think its the best we're going to get. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:08, 4 April 2009 (BST)

Project Userboxes

I've been thinking about making a page for a while with most of the userboxes made on the wiki - like they have on wikipedia. It will make it easier for newbs to make userpages (and we could expand it to have several common themes for userpages as well.)

Thoughts? (sorry if I was a bit unclear.) Linkthewindow  Talk  11:16, 7 April 2009 (BST)

Short and simple, I think this is a good idea. :) --D.E.ATalk 12:28, 7 April 2009 (BST)

Works for me, and would definitely help those who are new, because it's hard finding out how to edit your page properly, do what you want with it, and all of that. What about copy-paste templates or something? I know I would've used it... --The Shoemaker ^{Talk Red Faction} 00:01, 9 April 2009 (BST)

You know, I think I might do that. I'm going to make a template that new users can just copy and paste into their page, and then change it to their preferences, and presto! Easy. Here's the link: http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/New_user_template --The Shoemaker ^{Talk Red Faction} 00:08, 9 April 2009 (BST) Actually, now, its a list of code that they can use if they wish. I do believe it would help, though.--The Shoemaker ^{Talk Red Faction} 16:49, 11 April 2009 (BST)

Building Status

I have only used wiki for a short time. I would like to help more. But I have a problem, I don't get how to update the building stats. Can any one help me? --Robert Egleton 03:11, 13 June 2009 (BST)

Yep, lets say you want to update the report for Dowdney Mall. Well, see the danger report at the top? Click the (update) button on the top right of it, and then 'edit' that new page that comes up (it'll be the single danger report by itself). From there on, just update the information with what is more recent (there'll be a guide) Make sure to sign your posts over the older users, some people get anal about that (including me). Good luck. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:15, 13 June 2009 (BST)

Thanks mate. I see now. --Robert Egleton 03:18, 13 June 2009 (BST)

Don't forget to post at the bottom :) Linkthewindow  Talk  04:12, 13 June 2009 (BST)

Another Question

Can you add a building status to a building that doesn't have one? If so how? --Robert Egleton 00:34, 14 June 2009 (BST)

You know you've been playing Urban Dead too much when

On You know you've been playing Urban Dead too much when, there are a couple entries that I wouldn't mind moving to a page like You know you've been using UDWiki too much when. Some of these are wiki-specific, and I have a few wiki specific ones that I would like to mention. What do people think? D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 08:30, 23 June 2009 (BST)

Sure, go ahead (perhaps as a subpage?) Linkthewindow  Talk  08:42, 23 June 2009 (BST)

I don't think we'll even need that, if we just made it similar to something that I mentioned above, we could just interlink the two together on the top of each page. I'll get started on it when I have the time and mindset. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 08:48, 23 June 2009 (BST)

Restoring page and adding new one

Sorry if this isn't the right place to put this but Zombra's Pub needs re-added to the active groups and a new branch group has been formed called the Zombra's Pub Rangers. Can we get restored? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Taco2 (talk • contribs) 18:04, 15 November 2009.

I would help if I could....and who are you? (no signature)--Supercohboy 19:39, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Stop over by UDWiki:Administration/Undeletions, a sysop can restore your page(s) for you there. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 23:32, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

UDWiki:Featured Articles

I'm putting this here because there are 4 or so FA related articles with little content and no audience, so this is a better method (presumably) to get a response.

The FA method is failing us, people. The system we implemented means that all GA's have to go through yet another vote to become a featured article, something all good articles easily could become without a second vote, particularly because nothing makes it through good article voting if it has any type of scrutiny from the community.

Without the Featured Article system, the prestige behind good articles dies because there isn't anything to show for it, hence why we got bored of Good Article voting within a month. I propose we entirely get rid of FA voting and start cycling Good Articles as Featured Articles for a month, in order they were voted in. I would suggest a small area on the Main Page for this to go, but for now I am only interested in getting the FA system running, so we can actually give some of these articles some reward. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 09:10, 23 June 2009 (BST)

Basically picking a Good Article to be featured? Therefore no need for FA/V? Ok! --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 01:36, 28 June 2009 (BST)

God I wish this place got used more. Love yoo gnome. Next step: Getting this GA's featured on main page. Your views? D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:11, 28 June 2009 (BST)

Plus a featured article section on CP too. Why will people bother if the only place FA's are featured is on the Featured Article page? D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:28, 28 June 2009 (BST)

We have a spot on the ComPort, but it may be redundant to have it on the main page too, in the CP box. I was thinking of putting a "improvement drive" in that box in the main page for a particularly needy poor article. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 21:00, 28 June 2009 (BST)

That's probably the best idea, with a link back to the CP. Linkthewindow  Talk  01:20, 29 June 2009 (BST)

My only problem with having it on CP and not main page is that it'll never get seen. I vote main page and not CP. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 03:30, 29 June 2009 (BST)

It's on the sidebar on the CP page right now, but it might look empty, if nothing else is added. Or unless someone has a better CP page design, or something. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 21:41, 3 July 2009 (BST)

The CP page design is fine at the moment, instead of a FA section just replace it with the newest General Discussion topics maybe? And just cycle them as they die? Maybe that'd make this place a little more used too. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 14:10, 4 July 2009 (BST)

Aye. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 20:52, 15 July 2009 (BST)

Category:Good Articles - Someone can pick one of those and write something short blah blah? Or I will, and it will be terrible and you all be sorry you didn't. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 20:52, 15 July 2009 (BST)

Holy cow, sorry I missed this. I'll get back to you with a bit. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 02:23, 12 August 2009 (BST)

Hmm. Did you mean write my own short section on why the page was a GA? Or an exerpt from the page itself? Because I think the first one should be Zombie, because it's plain, simple, and is historically relevant to the entire game etc.

Zombie said:

Zombies are the walking dead of the city of Malton. They are either players who started out as zombies, or survivors who died and stood up as zombies. Zombies have access to the zombie skills tree, and pay 100 XP for all zombie skills. Characters that begin the game as a zombie start with the Vigour Mortis skill, which gives them +10% to hit on all non-weapon attacks. Initially, zombies move more slowly than the living, taking 2 AP to travel from one city block to the next. This cost is reduced to 1 AP, the same as for survivors, once they purchase the Lurching Gait skill. Because zombies are already dead, they cannot technically be killed. If a zombie is "killed" by being reduced to 0 HP or less, they will become a dead body which will rise again in zombie form. The cost for a "dead" zombie to rise is 1 AP if they have the skill Ankle Grab, and 10 AP if they do not possess this skill. If the zombie is killed by a survivor with the Headshot skill, it costs an additional 5 AP for them to stand up (6 AP total with Ankle Grab, 15 AP without it).

Just copy and paste the first couple of paragraphs? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 03:01, 17 August 2009 (BST)

After using my brain and checking CP, I figured I'd just add something that you can actually use:

DanceDanceRevolution said:

*Zombie - A well written, well formatted page with everything you need to know about the living dead of Malton.

Y/N? Too small? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 03:04, 17 August 2009 (BST)

You could try it, and see how much complaining/praise it gets. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:07, 17 August 2009 (BST)

I'd be happy to but first I'd like to sort out the FA system- My proposal is that we eliminate voting and cycle GA's as FA's randomly. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 03:18, 17 August 2009 (BST)

It definitely makes sense to only have one round of voting. I would say the sooner the whole GA/FA debacle gets cleaned up and we get that page rolling the better, as it just sticks out like a sore thumb on the Community Portal right now. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 23:23, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!

	Anti-Bureaucracy
	This user hates bureaucracy and encourages wiki-revolution!

DOWN WITH THE CRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--Imthatguy 01:41, 4 July 2009 (BST)

Cute. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 02:15, 4 July 2009 (BST)

Its not 'For The Lulz', its serious --Imthatguy 04:35, 4 July 2009 (BST)

Wrong. It's just stupidity. You're not the first self-proclaimed revolutionary this wiki has had. Linkthewindow  Talk  09:31, 4 July 2009 (BST)

And spam. Spam spam wonderful spam... Linkthewindow  Talk  09:31, 4 July 2009 (BST)

• Rollseyes* We've seen how 'Trustworthy' the admins can be over the past few days --DOWN WITH THE

'CRATS!!! | Join Nod!!! 08:34, 17 July 2009 (BST)

Updating the status of a building

I always get stuck at the first step of updatin because it doesn't tell you how to check the building status. How do I check the building status? --Aion 22:09, 5 July 2009 (BST)

What do you mean by "checking?"--Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:11, 5 July 2009 (BST)

Go to the building in-game, look at your screen... come back and report what you see? -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 22:20 5 July 2009 (BST)

I thought thats what you meant. But it just seemed. Weird. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 22:29, 5 July 2009 (BST)

It's Here...

The Building Information Center is now up and running in each suburb. A big thanks to all those who contributed.~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 08:33, 9 July 2009 (BST)

Thanks a lot for this. It was a project that a few other guys thought about doing back in the day, but it never really took off. Now, just keeping those reports updated... Linkthewindow  Talk  08:56, 9 July 2009 (BST)

This might be asking for a bit much, but is there any chance this could go on the "Wiki News" sidebar? It just seems to me that this is a fairly big deal (or at least that's what my hand's telling me).--~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 08:59, 9 July 2009 (BST)

Sorry, but I'd say no. In relation to wiki projects, the Wiki News template is only really used at the start of a project, to get users to help. Once it's finished the news is deleted. We don't put completed projects on the news template. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 16:40, 10 July 2009 (BST)

A general reminder to keep the reports updated might stick. Linkthewindow  Talk  02:20, 11 July 2009 (BST)

Trenchcoater

I've never liked this page. Sure, it's humorous but it doesn't even have a definition of what the term actually means and it's use as a pejorative term. Humor's good and all, but not when it gets in the way of providing a definition for a term that's used very commonly in game.

I suggest we move the current trenchcoater page to Trenchcoater/Humor. We can ether create a totally new trenchcoater page (and I'll make a sandbox for this task,) or use Grim's trenchcoater page. It's not finished, but it's a good start.

Thoughts? Linkthewindow  Talk  09:20, 16 July 2009 (BST)

I dunno... I do really like the page at the moment. --ϑϑℜ 09:31, 16 July 2009 (BST)

I had a brain snap sorry. To elaborate, I'm not sure, super serious is obviously first pick in most situations, and Grim's page is really good, but I really think the page is a work of art itself, demonstrating the position that Trenchcoaters hold in the community- a joke. Make it serious and then more morons might think its a legitimate following, etc. Which, in my opinion, it isn't. --ϑϑℜ 09:37, 16 July 2009 (BST)

Humor's good and all, but it's getting in the way of a clear definition for a very commonly used term. Also it's the wiki's job to be neutural. Sure many people dislike combat reviving but we don't make the combat reviving page "lol cr sucks". Linkthewindow  Talk  11:55, 18 July 2009 (BST)

*Pokes this discussion* I really don't like the trenchcoater page as it stands. I would like to get a few more people's opinions before going ahead with this or forgetting about it. Linkthewindow  Talk  09:06, 20 July 2009 (BST)

The only users that will reply to your poke are AHLG and Ross. Oh, and Imthatguy squirting his rebel semen everywhere. As for me, I think its truely representative of the Trenchcoater mentality. But I'm not really going to care if you change it. --ϑϑℜ 09:25, 20 July 2009 (BST)

Opinions of four > opinions of two ;) Linkthewindow  Talk  09:28, 20 July 2009 (BST)

I don't think it should be made a subpage of a more serious one, simply because the humour really is that good and there isn't all that much to be said as far as definition goes. Maybe an extra section at the top/bottom of the page? --Cyberbob 09:29, 20 July 2009 (BST)

Quick NPOV section on the top of page? --ϑϑℜ 09:31, 20 July 2009 (BST)

*Points to Grim's trenchcoater page* Linkthewindow  Talk  09:31, 20 July 2009 (BST)

Not small enough for a disclaimer. I'd prefer disclaimer. --ϑϑℜ 09:33, 20 July 2009 (BST)

Make the definition page a sub page, and leave this one, minus the glossary category? -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:35 20 July 2009 (BST)

Acceptable. Linkthewindow  Talk  09:38, 20 July 2009 (BST)

But even then, we should still make it obvious that the main trenchcoater page is humorous and the proper glossary page is located at a subpage (probably using {{Notice}}. Linkthewindow  Talk  09:39, 20 July 2009 (BST)

If it's done right, and is concise enough, the definitional sub page could be include on the main page (template like) as a sort of NPOV section. That way, both have the neutral explanation of what a trenchy is, but the main article isn't included in the glossary -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:43 20 July 2009 (BST)

I'm planning on using Grim's page as a template (literally, not in a wiki-sense.) That'll obviously be too long, but I'll add a concise NPOV definition at the top of the page. Linkthewindow  Talk  09:47, 20 July 2009 (BST)

Good. Using Grim's is probably the best encyclopaedic method we have. --ϑϑℜ 09:52, 20 July 2009 (BST)

When people started complaining about the WCDZ page, we added a disclaimer at the bottom of the page. Maybe this could help this page being humorous and informative at the same time. --People's Commissar Hagnat ^{[talk] [wcdz]} 12:32, 20 July 2009 (BST)

Oh, Grim... --Cyberbob 11:14, 21 July 2009 (BST)

Pizza

You, boy, tell me where I can find the biggest pizza in Malton. C.C. 02:05, 26 July 2009 (BST)

User:Grim s/Grims counter. --ϑϑℜ 02:55, 26 July 2009 (BST)

Does anyone know where I can find some pizza in Malton? Any at all? C.C. 04:35, 26 July 2009 (BST)

Here. --User:Axe27/Sig 04:55, 26 July 2009 (BST)

	Pizza!
	This user loves pizza and eats it every chance they get.

--ϑϑℜ 05:11, 26 July 2009 (BST)

Pizza! *starts eating*

On nom nom; syo, do you knyow of anywhyere in Malton I cyan find this stuff? C.C. 05:19, 26 July 2009 (BST)

Not me, sorry. --ϑϑℜ 05:43, 26 July 2009 (BST)

Then I'll just have to find some! *Makes a character whose sole purpose is to find Pizza in Malton* C.C. 06:26, 26 July 2009 (BST)

*Thinks the pizza is poisoned*--DOWN WITH THE 'CRATS!!! | Join Nod!!! 11:06, 26 July 2009 (BST)

As if poison bothered me... C.C. 15:15, 26 July 2009 (BST)

^^^Gayest conversation ever.--CyberRead240 15:19, 26 July 2009 (BST)

I don't remember anyone asking your opinion; if you don't like it then go somewhere else. C.C. 06:26, 26 July 2009 (BST)

nou--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 20:21, 26 July 2009 (BST)

BAHN TEH WITCHES!! >.> Idk...I love pizza....--Supercohboy 19:31, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Building Types: Article v Category

In my reorg of the categories, I've come across Category:Building Types which contains a few decent articles on some of the different types of building. There's a good sized number of incoming links to some of the page, but maybe only as common terms. However, Building Types appears to be the main article on the matter. It covers everything briefly along with its sister page Empty blocks. Most phrases for types of building redirect to this page. I'm wondering what to do about it. Having redirects where mall takes you to a detailed page on malls but malls takes you to a description is confusing at best. One might also consider the subcategories of Category:Locations as areas where content could be stored. You get the information and then a list of those buildings which might be useful.

So I was wondering if anybody wanted to chip in their two cents or if they had any other ideas about sorting it out. --  RoosterDragon  04:57, 5 August 2009 (BST)

On initial inspection I'd be inclined to say move Building Types in its entirety to Category:Building Types, with or without the building summaries currently found on the former. I'll have a better idea of what to do after work when I have a look into it some more. --ϑϑℜ 05:01, 5 August 2009 (BST)

After looking it through I'd still push for that to happen. Using Category:Locations is alright but I don't want to dilute the NPOV of this project with stuff like ALiM and McZeds etc. I'd prefer to have a portal page on Building Types and then the categories for the building types as the individual pages. --ϑϑℜ 04:00, 6 August 2009 (BST)

I'm looking to keep Category:Locations if possible and ditch the building types one, as it's a useful way to subcategorize the other building types. So I'm in for keeping the BT article with links to Category:Hospitals etc which contain an actual article as well as the listing. What should the redirect set-up be though? Redirect to the BT article section or the category?

As far as project stuff, perhaps "meta" locations could have their own subcategory. EG: Category:Locations --> Category:Meta Locations --> Category:Amusing Locations. Special in-game locations can still be listed in the asterisk section (masts, billboards, etc). --  RoosterDragon  13:39, 24 August 2009 (BST)

As long as that POV/flavour stuff is removed, all will be good. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 14:07, 24 August 2009 (BST)

Mass deletion

What do users think about possibly deleting A and B of the Families of Malton category? Conndraka revived the project after 3 years, and had a spurt of activity that lasted only a couple of hours, and left nothing but about two hundred pages with nothing but the same content- some sort of template for others to fill in en masse.

If I made a simple template that had this content on it (for the sake of the future, though I doubt anyone will bother picking this up again), these will be crit 1s. Obviously the 10 or so A/B's that were made before this event, and have original content, will be kept. Thoughts? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 10:42, 11 August 2009 (BST)

The whole thing is ridiculous. I would not be against nuking the lot of them. Cyberbob  Talk  11:59, 11 August 2009 (BST)

True. It apperars to be a stalled project. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:31, 11 August 2009 (BST)

You two have put your hands up. I expect a big effort to purge this plague after I make a generic default "families" template. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 12:49, 11 August 2009 (BST)

Balls. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 12:50, 11 August 2009 (BST)

If there is no real opposition to getting rid of the whole deal from anyone else I'd be willing to delete any number of those stupid pages. Cyberbob  Talk  12:59, 11 August 2009 (BST)

So A/D or A/SD? Personally, now they are a crit 1 (1), I think putting them up for A/SD and simply waiting a couple of days should suffice. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 13:08, 11 August 2009 (BST)

Apart from a couple there is no content? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:09, 11 August 2009 (BST)

The ones we are looking at are ones that just had the same default template copied and pasted, simply in the aim of voiding the red links on Families of Malton. They served no purpose, and now Template:Families exists, they are crit 1's of the template. For example, casually browse though any random families page from this batch of edits. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 13:26, 11 August 2009 (BST)

Basically, the ones that have content were never created in that period so they won't be the target of this deletions request at all. We are only looking at the ones that Conn massed out on the 10th. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 13:28, 11 August 2009 (BST)

I think I added to one of them but by all means. Nuke them. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:20, 11 August 2009 (BST)

I'll work on finding the ones that have been added to and exclude them. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 15:04, 11 August 2009 (BST)

Delete them for plain having no content on SD under crit 1, they're most certainly not crit 1's of the template you knocked up. --  RoosterDragon  17:27, 11 August 2009 (BST)

And how so? The template is just a direct copy of what he pasted on the 200 pages. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:50, 12 August 2009 (BST)

It's a subst template so the editor can then edit different headers, well it would seem odd to me to go around nuking content for being dupe's of subst templates. That rather seems to defeat the purpose of a subst template in the first place. That's just a minor caveat on substitution though, since these pages haven't been touched in a while and they have just filler text (templated, substituted or otherwise), that's crit 1 enough for me. --  RoosterDragon  02:00, 12 August 2009 (BST)

I've searched through all pages' histories to see which ones had been modified. I'll make an SD report soon. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 02:21, 12 August 2009 (BST)

Done. Nice work Cyberbob, and thanks for the input, everyone. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 10:14, 14 August 2009 (BST)

Welcomecreation

On MediaWiki:Welcomecreation, does anyone else think a summarised help template similar to Template:EditHelpMenu may be put at the bottom to help out users? They are so much easier to casually access than the Template:Welcomenewbie business that we spurt out. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 11:49, 11 August 2009 (BST)

Agreed. Indeed, it's probably worth reworking that template you've linked to above, with a link to the Project Welcome page so newbies that need help can seek it, and we can reduce the current template spam. Linkthewindow  Talk  12:20, 11 August 2009 (BST)

I've re-stylised the EditHelpMenu template to fit with the WN-themed intro thats already on MediaWiki:Welcomecreation, and updated it as such. If anyone thinks its bad, ugly or just unnecessary, feel free to discuss here or revert. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 12:49, 11 August 2009 (BST)

The problem with putting detailed help pages on the welcomecreation page, is that it only comes up once, right after the user signs up. They won't be able to go back and look at all those help pages later. Welcomecreation doesn't replace the welcomenewbie stuff, it's there to give brand new users some of the bare basic facts (to keep them out of trouble, and from making the more obvious newbie mistakes) that they need to know before even starting to edit. Mucking up some page formatting, or not knowing about tables isn't going to be of a worry to most until much later -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 14:15 11 August 2009 (BST)

Boxy talks sense, having the help menu on WC is of no use, you'd be better off including a link to the help area on the WN template. --  RoosterDragon  17:30, 11 August 2009 (BST)

The WN Template isn't assured to get to every user, it's so goddamn long that most probably just ignore/delete it. The last thing we need to be doing is adding information to it. What is the harm of just adding something in the chance that someone will use it? The Help template is designed so one can click on one link, read it, go back on the browser to systematically read all the entries. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 02:00, 12 August 2009 (BST)

Like anybody is going to systematically read all those entries at the first visit, if ever. Those are some damned long pages, some longer than WN on their own. --  RoosterDragon  02:04, 12 August 2009 (BST)

When I started, I read a couple. And even still, the whole shebang comes with the policies and guidelines too, which are necessary to introduce to newbs. Anyways, if you don't like it, you can just revert it, I won't mind. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 02:09, 12 August 2009 (BST)

Meh, links nobody will read won't harm anybody I guess. --  RoosterDragon  02:15, 12 August 2009 (BST)

The problem is that the more totally irrelevant info you put in a notice like that, the greater the chance that newbies wont read any of it. The only links for real use to total newbies are the first 3 in "Basic Editing" and the "Page Tricks" section -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 03:02 12 August 2009 (BST)

The welcome newbie crap is crap. Stop acting like it's a legitimate alternative to anything but actual qualitative contributions and help. It's no more useful than putting it here would be, significantly less so actually when you consider how it comes off and who inevitably ends up doing it. 1)Get rid of that shitty color scheme, for the welcome creation page, go with something softer like blue headers on white background, the yellow makes people not want to read it less than they already do. 2)Don't make it anything like welcome newbie, that doesn't provide any qualitative information and is about the worst teaching resource on this wiki, focus on providing them access to the extremely basic information, open all links in a new tab if possible. 3)Start actually banning the welcome newbie assholes instead of protecting them because some of you were them, it's vandalism and ridiculously counter productive and if you actually took the time to recognize the impact of it right down to the fit the creator of it had when a user was banned for abusing it even worse than it normally is you'd realize what common sense tells most everyone else. That is all. --Karek^maps?! 07:30, 14 August 2009 (BST)

1)I've changed the colour scheme, if it's not right, don't bitch about it, give me the colours you think are conducive to people reading. 2) I don't know that forcing people to have links open in a new tab is going to make them happy. I know I find it quite annoying. 3) Until you come up with a viable alternative to the welcomenewbie template, it's the best thing we've got, and done in good faith -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:50 14 August 2009 (BST)

As Boxy. What the hell Karke? WN sucks, but it's all we got, plus it hasn't been misused by any user since the MH and Airbourne crap. At leased while I've been around here. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 10:06, 14 August 2009 (BST)

1) I did, fucking read. 2)In welcome creation the point of new tabs is that you'll never see the fucking information page again, so I don't really give two shits what you prefer and no one else should either, it's either new tabs or don't fucking put in links. 3)No, there is a viable alternative, go back to project mentor which was the closest thing to actually helping newbies anyone ever did on this wiki, WN isn't the best we got, it's NOTHING, it's just block spam and it's far from helpful beyond helping your epenis link ratings. And DDR, the Airbourne crap was the intentional use and how it's always been used, misuse would be actually trying to help the users you're spamming which is what you should be trying to do, am I the only one that read what the guy who made it said? --Karek^maps?! 05:45, 16 August 2009 (BST)

I've removed the editing section. Just too much for this job -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 09:50 14 August 2009 (BST)

Alright, I'm fine with that. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 10:13, 14 August 2009 (BST)

Without Welcomenewbie, how would we on the Developing Suggestions page be able to violently attack new users who haven't read the literature? Putting a nice little link to how to correctly make suggestions really makes our jobs easier for both good and bad suggestions; I imagine that a/vb would also take some hits if we didn't post a clear warning about the nature of vandalism on all new user pages. Welcomenewbie at least prevents a large piece of the community of feigning ignorance or lack of information about important policies. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:37, 14 August 2009 (BST)

The problem with that is WN has never served as evidence that a newbie knows his stuff, either in A/VB or DS, because not only does every newbie get one (the application of WN templates on newbs is sporadic over time) but there's no proof that it's ever read or consumed by its audience. The template itself is so massive that it's a bitch to read from start to finish, I've never done it, and fixing it is hard because there isn't an easy way to go about compressing it. At the moment it's a bit of a lost cause. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:12, 15 August 2009 (BST)

The problem with welcome newbie is it's not customized to each user's needs and is rarely worth bothering to read by any of them so it's worthless for learning the ropes unlike how an actually helpful user would be able to show them things it presupposes they'll read text spam that's obviously someone aiming for looking helpful while not obviously not caring to give them the time of day for anything but Edit Paste. --Karek^maps?! 05:49, 16 August 2009 (BST)

There may have been a period in that comment, but for the life of me I can't find it... Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 20:07, 16 August 2009 (BST)

That's because you're a failure as a grammer nazi, a period isn't what's missing. If you're gonna be a prick at least be right. --Karek^maps?! 13:33, 17 August 2009 (BST)

You should throw it out the window, and replace it with something that says Hi and gives a few useful links. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 17:01, 15 August 2009 (BST)

We would if had the motivation to do it. I guess in the end it will come down to us helping them out anyway, which is what I'm happy to do when the need arises. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 18:11, 15 August 2009 (BST)

Like on Wikipedia, Gnome? I've thought about suggesting that system here, but I've forgotten :/. Linkthewindow  Talk  22:17, 16 August 2009 (BST)

Hello, General Discussion/Archive Arts Biography Geography History Mathematics Science Society Technology All portals Welcome to the Urban Dead Wiki! Blah blah blah don't say newbie blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah how to sign blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah short and sweet

This would be some type of customized text underneath. Bob the Welcomer 03:54, 17 August 2009 (BST)

General idea. The code probably needs to be cleaned up, and such. Also, those links I think should be floating middle more, instead of upper more.

And yeah, I know you know where I got that code on the right side of the table, but you get the idea. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 03:54, 17 August 2009 (BST)

There's another WP one that basically just goes through the "Five Pillars" of wikipedia - it's extremely simple. I'll poke around later and see if I can find that. Linkthewindow  Talk  07:42, 17 August 2009 (BST)

wikipedia:User:Karek. It's all there somewhere. --Karek^maps?! 13:34, 17 August 2009 (BST)

Found it, thanks. Linkthewindow  Talk  13:45, 17 August 2009 (BST)

Hello, General Discussion, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions{{#if:|, especially what you did for [[:{{{art}}}]]}}. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on {{#if:|[[user talk:{{{1}}}|my talk page]]|my talk page}}, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome!

Direct copy-paste from Template:Welcome. I like my welcome messages simple and with lots of links. Much better then the current WN spam. Linkthewindow  Talk  13:45, 17 August 2009 (BST)

Thas nice. We could have two, at least for a varying degree of "newness". --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 15:39, 17 August 2009 (BST)

Template:Wiki News and UDWiki:News

The latter is a practically unused page that is only kept for archive reasons... It's never used by people updating Template:Wiki News and it is simply too labouring to copy the message from Wiki News to UDWIki:News, because you have to change the formatting etc. which is just a pain in the arse.

What do users think about changing the UDWiki:News system so it incorporates, to an extent, the coding that the former template uses, into a template which already has its own formatting, so when users have to archive, they just copy the "date" and "message" part of Template:Wiki News' code and stick it in a new, easy to access template onto UDWiki:News, hence standardising the page's formatting and making archival a simple copy+paste job. Thoughts? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:13, 20 August 2009 (BST)

Qualify the usage claim, since it's obviously not really clear where you're getting the idea that one has significantly more usage than the other? It can't be as simple as frequency of edits, that would just be foolish as a measure of the second page's value in its current form.
If you're trying to make the moving over to UDWiki:News easier why not just throw a switch into the current news template based on PAGENAME, it would save them the effort of doing anything but a simple cut and paste. If you wanted to get real fancy you could just have the Wiki News template not remove old adds but instead alter it in a manner that before a certain date format it has an includeonly on PAGENAME UDWiki:News. That would, quite literally, save all the work. You're biggest problem would be the template inclusion on UDWiki:News because of possibly hitting inclusion size limits although, it would be simple enough to break it into a separate archived template if you hit that point. Possibly with the same code which could give you half a dozen pages that are essentially just the one template inclusion but all with a different month/year's output. Odds are it would be pretty straight forward and simple if you could follow what I just said. --Karek^maps?! 16:25, 22 August 2009 (BST)

I'm saying that, and I find it hard to think you don't notice this, that 20% of the information put on Template:Wiki News makes it onto it's archive page UDWiki:News because no one bothers to replace the former's entries onto the latter when cycling, hence it is once again becoming an obsolete archive page. This needs to change. You'll need to wait for someone better than I to reply to your coding suggestion though, it's over my head at the moment. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 16:29, 22 August 2009 (BST)

Given the the archive is so patchily used, I question even bothering to keep it. Is it useful enough to keep? I've never used it to find anything. --  RoosterDragon  04:29, 29 August 2009 (BST)

That's not the best solution, but I guess it depends on whether Kevan intends on having another purge anytime in the future. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 09:43, 29 August 2009 (BST)

Snow?

Is there anything about this anywhere? If not, who's up for helping make it? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:08, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Follow the general idea of Fog which redirects to it's own section in the Halloween article. --  RoosterDragon  01:15, 3 September 2009 (BST)

I was thinking that. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:18, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Less thinking, more writing. --  RoosterDragon  01:45, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Shoosh you. I have housework and stuff to do. IRL > Wiki, rule 1 of the sysop janitor's handbook. speaking of which, The Sysop Janitor's Handbook. Yes? ;) --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:53, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Yes, its content should be "#REDIRECT: [[Cabal]]" ;). Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:46, 3 September 2009 (BST)

SHHHH, IT'S A SECRET O.O--Orange Talk 03:06, 3 September 2009 (BST)

It's not a secret that there isn't a cabal; everyone knows that. If it was a secret, there wouldn't be a page on the wiki saying it, would there? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:10, 3 September 2009 (BST)

Orpaned page

Help:Template_messages

Can anybody help with that? --Imthatguy is on the wiki looking at ur pagez 11:31, 1 October 2009 (BST)

Not orphaned. Check "What links here."--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:37, 1 October 2009 (BST)

Well, well, well. Looks like it's been copied across from wikipedia.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:39, 1 October 2009 (BST)

Excuse my incorrect terminology... what i mean to say... can anyone help with cleaning up the links nonexistent images and templates? --Imthatguy is on the wiki looking at ur pagez 11:49, 1 October 2009 (BST)

I would sooner delete the entire thing, and fix the links to link over to the wikipedia version. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 13:22, 1 October 2009 (BST)

Probably best. It's not like it's an important part of the wiki.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:39, 1 October 2009 (BST)

Think about this...

If every zombie hunter stepped outside right now, and headshot a zombie, then there'd only be 800 standing zombies. O.o Weird....--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:39, 1 October 2009 (BST)

Think about this: if every zombie character in the game stood back up and attacked a human or human safe house with 44 AP, the survivors would be screwed. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:34, 1 October 2009 (BST)

I've personally been waiting for the day every zombie gathers in one place and just holds it for the lulz. Some insignificant, stupid place, like The Eastwood Museum. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 23:58, 1 October 2009 (BST)

Or The BAAWWLS Building —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lelouch (talk • contribs) .

n0ice signature Cyberbob  Talk  01:02, 2 October 2009 (BST)

I made a siggy jus for u bob, but I eated it. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:03, 2 October 2009 (BST)

did u haz a cheezburger to? Cyberbob  Talk  01:03, 2 October 2009 (BST)

no, I has a bucket. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:05, 2 October 2009 (BST)

lol --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:05, 2 October 2009 (BST)

DDR's roflcopter makes a sound; it goes soi soi soi soi soi soi soi. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:06, 2 October 2009 (BST)

Main Page Categorisation

I know it is a good principle for neutrality etc, but the Main Page has always remained uncategorised and hence is the only proper page that is consistantly never categorised. I supported this until I found Category:Main Page. Why not throw it in there?

Also, can any wiki geniuses help speculate about %s and its meaning? Mediawiki coding for our own safety? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 15:34, 13 October 2009 (BST)

wikipedia:Talk:%s. --Midianian 20:01, 13 October 2009 (BST)

Sweet, thakns. And as for the categorisation? Any opinions? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 05:07, 14 October 2009 (BST)

Why the heck not? Everyone loves categories, and we might actually be able to put main page related bits/pieces in it as well. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:33, 14 October 2009 (BST)

Category:Main Page --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:35, 14 October 2009 (BST)

Yeah, I... above... nevermind... --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 00:36, 15 October 2009 (BST)

.ogg

No Ogg Vorbis support? What gives? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 05:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Bump Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:41, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Outta my league, sorry. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 00:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Either this version of MediaWiki or permissions are set to not allow it. --Rahrah^{Come join the #party!}00:49, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's permissions; either that, or we have some seriously outdated software. Does anyone know for sure which it is? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:55, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Since .ogg is cited in the upload form, I think it's the permissions. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 00:59, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

As an Op, do you know how we might go about allowing such a thing? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:11, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I think it has to go through the webmaster, probably needs to be done through FTP modifications, ie. Kevan. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Because that's so likely to work, right? le sigh. I guess I'll just drop it then; I just thought it would be cool to embed audio on our wiki and user pages. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:22, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Can someone at least tell me how to set an image as the background to one of my pages then? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:32, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I've always had mass trouble coding one myself, but the generic response to any request about image backgrounds is by casually pointing them to User:VI. He is the only one I know who has done it effectively. He used transparent div overlays over the image so it wouldn't come up as a link, as leased superficially. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:37, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Very useful; any idea how to tile/loop images in that format? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:47, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Also, do you know what the average pixel-width of a wiki page is? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:51, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Not sure how to tile or loop images. As for pixel-width, I always used 900px as a failsafe back in the day, pretty sure. May have been 700px. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:59, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks DDR; I'm going to go pimp out my userpage now. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:49, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey DDR; do you know how to crop an image in code? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:02, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, not sure. Wouldn't you just do [[Image:FakeExample.jpg|800px]] like normal? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 06:34, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Fuck .ogg.-- SA 02:09, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

We Don't need ogg.. I dont need to open a wiki page and be bombarded with crappy emo music like myspace... --Technerd ^{CFT U!} 03:45, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks you two, that was so constructive and helpful. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:49, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it is. It shows you that some users don't agree with your line of thinking. Thanks for your snarky comment!-- SA 04:57, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

The conversation at hand has absolutely no need for people to say what they "think". It's about finding out the answer to the question of why .ogg doesn't work. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 05:07, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Most like it doesn't work because Kevan knows that embedding sound is one of the more annoying and lame things you can do to a wiki page -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 05:21 15 November 2009 (BST)

And the answer is that it sucks, and we don't think we need support for it for his purposes. So, being that I personally do not like the thought of music being embedded on a wiki page here, fuck .ogg. More words, same effect.

Also "I just thought it would be cool to embed audio on our wiki and user pages. Lelouch vi Britannia 01:22, 15 November 2009 (UTC)" please explain why what we think has nothing to do with the conversation at hand when it was brought about by a user thinking? Oh, and lets not forget this "I think it has to go through the webmaster/Kevan.--DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC)" Why do you get to "think" and not us? After all, it's discussion. It's what happens here.-- SA 05:37, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks you two, that was so constructive and helpful.</attention> Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 06:06, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

2009 State of Malton

I encourage discussion on the current state of Malton what what should be done to improve it, and help even out the Survivor/Zombie numbers. --Monitor001 19:01, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I think Malton's fine. PWNED Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 19:05, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Malton has a good balance going.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 19:32, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Someone is perhaps butthurt about the fact that their favorite oh-so safe suburb now has some zombie horde attention? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 19:35, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Well I disagree, In the past few months it seems to me the zombies are making progress for turning every suburb red. This is bad for game play because if every human dies who's going to revive them. --Monitor001 19:19, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Ever seen the stats page? Humans still out number the zombies.--^TCAPD(╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ 19:22, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I dispute any claim that zombies are purely ascendant/winning in the past few months. Let's take a look at Suburbs, shall we? As of this posting, there are: 27 Reds, 25 Dark Yellow, 22 Light Yellow, 16 Green and 10 Gray. So if we're looking at a even split down the middle of the categories (ignoring gray ones for the moment), we have 52 Zombie held suburbs and 38 Human held ones. That's a 57%/43% split. Adding in the gray's on the zombie side takes that to 62%/38%. To the humans (since ghost towns don't have a huge number of zombies in them), that's 52%/48%. So that's 57%/43% +/- 5%. If you look at mid-November, it's 39/55 +/- 6. Three months before that, mid-June, it's 53/41 +/- 6 suburbs. Now three months is hardly enough time to determine yearly trends, but so far it does look like there's a rise and fall to zombie/human dominance. I did pick November and June at random, so it might be worth taking a look at what the monthly/weekly breakdown of suburb claims are, as the above may be an incorrect conclusion.

I would think that maintaining this potentially cyclical pattern is a good thing. Since UD cannot be won in the classic sense (all humans/zombies killed/revived), having periods where survivors are dominant gives the zombie groups something to rail against. When zombies are ascendant, human groups have to work harder to survive (potentially more interesting, since this IS a horror survival game). This keeps the game relatively fresh for playing. -Wulfenbach 21:08, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I read the first two sentences and stopped. The Suburb is not the truth, it is the product of wiki-goers, most of which are chickenshit trenchies and retards. The numbers are obvious. Check the stats pages. Zombies are outnumbered and have been for almost a year. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Silence, you arcade-crazed gamer! :) Yes, Suburb is updated whenever someone gets around to it and their motivation could be of general interest, desire for actual truth, outright fabrication or some other push. That said, people DO update it. Of those updates, the results posted are drawn from those actual postings. Hence the empirical results I posted. Well, sort of - the potential error range could be enormous, but unless someone actually does a survey of wiki users and their motivations on updating Suburb, well it could be small or huge. Ditto with the chickenshits vs. retards vs. what-have-you. Might be worth a joke proposal, but I'll need to finish my current actual one first. My point is that he was referencing "red suburbs", something primarily associated with Suburb in the first place, thus the review of past Suburb data to get what I posted. You do need to actually read past the first two or three lines, DDR. Yer smarter then that...although I grant, it was a wall-o-text. -Wulfenbach 08:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Things are actually going quite well. Several of the more bothersome zerg armies have called it a day, several survivor groups are actually trying to take on the higher cost repairs out there, and the FU are doing an excellent job of keeping at least one of the forts trench free. Plus, there's Pumpkins. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 20:12, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Now if only we could find Younna's donkeys. We need to form a city-wide search party ASAP! Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 20:40, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

There's still one in my userspace.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:41, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, there are two.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:42, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I found one on your map; what do I win!? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 20:51, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

No, that's just directing people to the game. Two actual ones. Ah, what the hell, you get a point anyway.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:36, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad I stopped kira, because he might have killed YOUR DONKEY to protect himself! I can has success? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 21:54, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I'd ask you on Alex koponen's talk page, but he's too busy being a donkey himself. Thanx for teh clues. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 21:58, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Those are the very two I was refferring to. I'll have to start sneaking more in.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:02, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Imo zombies should be better and more capable of holding a playerbase so they aren't constantly outnumbered in the game. Nerfs aren't an option because in UD nerfs directly mean "less fun", and making a game like UD less fun than before will do nothing but drive existing players away. Zombies need several small direct and indirect buffs to turn the game into chaos like The Dead brought. Surviving on a last string of resistance, they were the glory days. Bring em back, I say. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Well I disagree, In the past few months it seems to me the zombies are making progress for turning every suburb red. This is bad for game play because if every human dies who's going to revive them. --Monitor001 19:19, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Lots of us play more than one character. Lots of us have dormant characters. These dormant characters are idled and cannot be killed. These dormant characters have lots of equipment. By equipment, I mean needles.

"If every human dies who's going to revive them?"

1. Who cares?
2. Sleeping needle factories.

-- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 08:14, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

If UD could use anything, an injection of more players would never be a bad thing. Honestly, just taking a survey of the wiki population, how many players have only one character? 10% maybe? Aside from simple word-of-mouth, I cannot think of any good ways to advertise the game that don't require money though. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:25, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

A charity car wash? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:15, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

If you could get Little Kuriboh to endorse the game, the servers would crash from the massive influx of new players. I don't know why I said that, but I did. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 15:19, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

The fucking cities dude. Ever think that the advertising and endorsements Kevan does for Dead Set and Diary of the Dead should have gone both ways? Either though DVD notification, or something more relevant (like adds on the Dead Set and DOTD website)? If they have already then I stand mistaken. But Kevan makes entire cities for these promotions, they should be giving him lots of semen/plugs in return. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 14:37, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually thats a good point. Why wan't there a sentence about Monroeville in Total Film? They had a building named after them after all. It could have been yahoomas all over again! --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:41, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

The Great Suburb Group Massacre 2010?

What do you say? It's been almost a year since the last one, and although we still have a few weeks left in 2009, I don't see why we can't get it done by the end of the year. Think of it as a wiki-wide resolution. Is anyone in favor of another activity check starting within the next week or so?--~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 05:39, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it so necessary just now, but I'd help out. --

 

 

 

 

05:53, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I had talked briefly with Rooster about this and felt that maybe the 2nd week of January would be better since people are likely not to be checking the wiki regularly (if at all) right now due to the holidays and finals and all that jazz. But yes, it is overdue--as is a Radio Frequency Massacre. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 06:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm more up for the timing that Maverick and Iscariot mentioned. It's best to wait until after the New Year before starting. But I'm definitely in favor of another one, and we could probably roll the Radio Frequency Massacre into the same operation...if the group doesn't acknowledge, we can just zap any frequencies they have as well. —Aichon— 11:07, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

It's all in hand. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 08:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

And in fairness should only take 3 weeks. Pitneybank first time around had 43 groups, now its got 8. Which reminds me, I need to go ask the MPD if their suburb listings are accurate. Last DEM group to do. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:15, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. These aren't so necessary anymore, it was the initial one that did the job. --

 

 

 

 

11:18, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I want a new sexy template though. The inactive ones Link did for top of pages is fine, but we want something 2010ish for the actual activity check. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:25, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Okays --

 

 

 

 

11:29, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

So maybe start first week of January?--~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 00:42, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Second! --

 

 

 

 

01:08, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

If DDR's dead-set on starting on the second week, I have no issue with that either. :P —Aichon— 01:28, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I think he means seconded. I could be wrong.--~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 02:07, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm guessing he meant "seconded" as well, but I was making an attempt at a tongue-in-cheek comment. It seems I'm too tired at the moment to do so very well. —Aichon— 02:31, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

It's okay Aichon; we're all tired. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:40, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry guys :( I meant the second week. --

 

 

 

 

06:19, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Wiki bug?

Anyone else see two misplaced [edit] symbols under the "Become a fan" section of Malton Medical Staff? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 04:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Nope, just you. -Poodle of Doom^{M! T} 04:11, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

The section isn't labeled that, but I see them as well. I'm guessing it might be related to their use of images somehow, but am now sure. —Aichon— 05:57, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a common problem with images aligned to the right, so I'm not sure why it's happening with some people when all the images are on the left, it may be the group template, I can't tell cause I can't see it an I can't find a Become a Fan section. --

 

 

 

 

06:01, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

It's actually this section. And there's at least one image aligned on the right there. —Aichon— 06:55, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a buildup from the section two above that one, because of that long image alongside it, I presume. --

 

 

 

 

07:19, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Solution ideas, anyone? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 15:55, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

A few ideas:

1. Use smaller images (i.e. images that are vertically smaller than the sections they are in).
2. Use a table/div layout, and place the images in a completely separate column/div. Note that a div within the text will still have the problem.
3. Use the __NOEDITSECTION__ magic word if you don't actually need those edit links.
4. Create your own edit links and place them where you want. It's possible, but tricky, and I don't have the code laying around for it at the moment.

Those are my best bets, but they all require changing the page visually somehow. —Aichon— 19:45, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Aichon; I'll just kill the edit links. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 21:17, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Meh.... --Imthatguy found some weed 20:10, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Fixing the mess that is the Guides namespace

For the sake of organization, we should make Guides: a proper namespace (via Kevan,) instead of the pseudo-namespace it is now. A few pages will have to be moved (possibly more.)

Thoughts on this? Linkthewindow  Talk  04:19, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Why the hell not. Having proper namespaces created from pseudos doesn't hurt anyone, and guides have been a part of the wiki since the beginning. --

 

 

 

 

04:25, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

It makes sense to have it be a proper namespace, but I'm unaware of what it would change at a practical day-to-day basis level. How would this help organization? —Aichon— 04:51, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

You'll be able to use {{PAGENAME}} properly, and use search to find all guides more easily. Also, my general impression has always been that pseudo-namespaces are Not Good. Linkthewindow  Talk  06:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

If it were me, I would just assume that silence implies consent and ask Kevan to add the new mainspace.

But, I feel like doing a straw poll, to confirm that I've got consensus for what's a really quite a minor change. Linkthewindow  Talk  14:48, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

You've got my consent. So that's three... did you need more? :P --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 19:50, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

If this is the straw poll, then you have mine as well. —Aichon— 23:09, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Dead.

Like I said almost ayear ago.
Urban Dead is slowly dieing......... Well I'mmouta here--Jerrel Yokotory 01:44, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes. And...? Some of us only discovered the game within the last year. It's still enjoyable. —Aichon— 01:58, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

HOLY SHIT IT'S DYING JUMP SHIP 02:01, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

*awaits Jerrel's return to say the exact same thing in a few months* --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 02:06, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Still like it, still play it, still think you're a drama queen attention-whore who is full of crap. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:08, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Still bitter you didn't get ops?!? No power trippin for you! --

 

 

 

 

02:51, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Ou sont les neiges d'antan?

I don't know if anyone else is seeing this, but it looks like the snow has stopped. Can anyone confirm this, and if so, is it worth putting on the in-game news template?--~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 20:51, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Confirmed, but not worth reporting.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:53, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Where are the snows of yesteryear? They made the world so white... Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 23:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Just stuck it as an unofficial note in News. --

 

 

 

 

10:19, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Was this Talk:News not good enough for you? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:21, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Not really, I just checked around the archives and did it the way I'd also seen it done. You're the weirdo in THIS outfit. --

 

 

 

 

10:25, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry. Wasn't really concentrating. Got to do a lot of preperation for my upcoming arbies case. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 13:44, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

It's cool, I was just kidding. I wouldn't have added it on there but I missed your entry on the talk page, I assumed any action would have been noted here so I just stuck it on the main. --

 

 

 

 

13:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

District pages?

After some initial coding, I have decided to follow Rooster's advice and just check with the general community before I do anything further. As some of the folks here know, I'm a big believer in districts as a concept and as a means of organizing Malton into manageable bits. As such, I have been working on district versions of the standard suburb page and the barricade plan pages.

Obviously both of these example pages need some work, but I am checking here to see if people think these would be worthwhile additions to the wiki or not. If they are, then I will get to work on sprucing up these example pages into a nice clean format before creating ones for all the other districts. If the community doesn't think that they are needed, then I will take them to Deletions. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 10:09, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I guess it's up to you, but I really don't think they are so necessary. Suburb is a fine enough system on its own. --

 

 

 

 

10:48, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I agree with DDR. I don't think they're needed, as the current system is already enough, and this would probably give more work, rather than lubricating the system. But, like DDR said, if you feel that these would be helpful, you might as well make them.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 13:29, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I'd say setup the rose district and see if it takes off as a usual page. No point doing them all yet. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 18:51, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I think they're worthwhile but not necessary, in the strictest sense. That said, I think the organic approach Ross suggests is a good one. Let's see the Rose District act as a template for the others. I think it can be made to work, and can be useful, but I think they'll be much less dynamic than the suburb pages in the end. —Aichon— 19:09, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure if this is the correct place to ask this, but if it is, then please disregard this statement.

I've been using Wiki.UrbanDead for a while now and I just have a small question regarding the pages of individual buildings in the districts of Malton. I was just curious if it is allowed to alter building descriptions and post pictures of buildings from real life so that the building would have a bit more history and flavor to it rather than just an empty page. --Adlehyde 19:08, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes. But remember this is a collaborative process, so don't be a dick if someone disagrees with your additions. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 21:16, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I am aware that this is a collaborative process and in most cases, I am quite passive when it comes to disagreements so it shouldn't pose a problem. As well, I am curious if it is frowned upon to improve the grammar, punctuation, sentence structure of entries made by other people? The reason I ask this, is because I was looking around districts and having found one and a building that suits my needs, I find that is has a lot of entry history, some of which dates back to 2007. --Adlehyde 22:23, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Define 'entries'. If it's unsigned history fluff, go change it. If it's a signed comment like this, don't. If you're talking about old news postings, they can be archived. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 22:24, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

By entries, I mean that it is old but signed history and news fluff. I can post the link to the page if you'd like to see what building I am referring to. I also discovered that there are two links on the bottom of the page, both linking to archival pages for tenant entries and listings of tenants. If permitted, I could clean up the page so it isn't a long listing of entries and history. --Adlehyde 22:34, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, is there a way to rediscover the district in which your character "woke up"? I can't remember where my guy started from. --TheBardofAwesome 13:45, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

No, there's not. I remember my namesake alt starting in Quarlesbank, but everyone else escapes me. Shame, really. 14:08, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Damn. I was hoping that there was a way, just one way I could find out. I mean, I don't mind making it up, but I'm gonna hate myself for doing it. And it's even more annoying considering this is the first character I've really played. --TheBardofAwesome 14:12, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

How long have you had the character? If you haven't moved much and you know how long you've had it, you can narrow it down quite a bit. 14:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I've had the character since mid-January and I've moved around a lot. I was relatively new to the game and wanted to see what Urban Dead was like. Such a bad mistake, IMHO. *Sigh* It's interesting though. I mean, even from what I can that it's entirely randomized, it'd be cool if there was a way for your starting location to be logged. Amazingly enough, while I was looking at all notepad documents on my computer, I found a saved document saying that my guy was from Barter Road Fire Station in West Grayside. I can't believe I saved it to a document, but now that I think about it, I remember it vaguely. Amazing what you can find in your saved document files, isn't it?--TheBardofAwesome 15:41, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Destroying the Red Links

The wiki is currently full of Red Links, basically pages that don't exist, but are listed on other pages. These are generally due to them

• Never being created by people who start something and then don't finish it.
• People who mispell page names, normally Location pages.
• Pages that were deleted or moved in the past.

The current number is 16000.

Most of these links (8000 or so) are only linked in one place, namely an admin archive, which records when they were moved, deleted.

As such I propose revisiting these protected archives and removing the brackets from their entries.

So for example Red Links becomes Red Links.

The page histories themselves will remain, and you can still find them recorded on the appropriate page, along with the reasons for their initial removal. And they can still be found by searching, they just won't be listed on Special:Wantedpages

Any objections? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 16:52, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I have a major objection, it screws with our Kill List which is designed to show up when someone creates an account with the same name as the victim.

Also, isn't this going to wreck the 'What Links Here' functionality? That's going to make getting recreated pages deleted hell because it'll be a nightmare to find the previous case. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 16:58, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

PK list has a specific objection, that's fair. We'll make the PK list page immune, as you've got a valid reason for it to exist. As for recreation hell, how about a year limit? All the lists from 2005-2008 are dilinkified, and it rolls forward per year. Do we have an issue with pages being recreated over a year later? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Won't searching for the page title still bring the previous case back up? 17:06, 13 March 2010 (UTC)#

How about we leave it all alone and you lot go put all the links back. Red links affect no-one excepting those with OCD who are looking at obscure lists generated by wiki software. There's no reason to make life harder for people in any way for this. Go do something useful with your time instead. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 17:08, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of how this discussion goes, Im going to trawl the links. Several hundred of these Red Links are ridiculously lazy locations mispellings. The suggestion here is just because I'm lazy. Its all part of a process. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:19, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't fucking help when Mis is purging them from protected pages, so even though there's disagreement no-one can do anything except cause drama through an arbitration case to force reversions until the end of the case. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 17:22, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

If more than one person decides they want red links to misspelt Danger Report pages back, I can revert all my edits. 17:28, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

I see more than danger reports. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 17:30, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Yep. Hold up for now. We'll got consensus either way. No point doing lots if we're going to have to revert. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:30, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Seems like correcting misspellings is fine, but I'm a bit up in the air on eliminating formerly-legitimate links to pages that have since been deleted. Seems like it could lead to "sleeper" problems that won't be obvious or apparent until later. —Aichon— 06:51, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Your list shouldn't be affected by this; I'm pretty sure there aren't user pages on Special:Wanted.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:04, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

That's nice to know, but the group's wiki page is not in User space. —Aichon— 06:51, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

The pages they're linking to are, and that's what matters. :P --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 10:43, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

*slaps forehead* Point. —Aichon— 21:12, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Iscariot is right, but that shouldn't stop you from going through the right links Ross and either nuking them or just removing their brackets, for the ones that should be dealt with as such. --

 

 

 

 

08:20, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Sigh. Looks Like I'm going to have to do it "properly". --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:22, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Given the amount of time without support, can we have all of these that were done undone now? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 13:41, 31 March 2010 (BST)

I didn't actually realise he'd gone through with doing those sorts of links? --

 

 

 

 

13:47, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Some of the older deletion archives were altered. I don't mind typos being fixed but to remove all links can lead to making comments nonsensical especiall when some of us use links in regular sentences by altering the link text. Point made? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 14:16, 31 March 2010 (BST)

I rolled back any of my changes. 15:01, 31 March 2010 (BST)

What I don't understand is why none of those high-linked admin archives were changed. I actually inadvertently put them on my projects list this arvo, but meh. The point is I never actually monitored the work Ross had done on these so I didn't know he'd actually 'fixed' those links we complained about, let alone kept them. --

 

 

 

 

15:15, 31 March 2010 (BST)

The links to deleted pages should not be broken. Going to the whatlinkshere page of deleted pages is a good way to find out the history and context of a page that has been deleted. It saves manually going looking for the relevant archives -- boxy ^{talk • teh rulz} 11:56 11 April 2010 (BST)

That was the consensus. As such I'm trawling through the links for stuff that is obviously spelling mistakes, mostly on locations. Anything that had an editing history is being left as it is. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 14:45, 11 April 2010 (BST)

Just out of curiosity,...

When you go to the Urban Dead website, and you see the side bar google ads, like the one for eRepublik, I assume that Kevin gets some sort of kick back for those to help support the game. Does anyone know how much? -Poodle of Doom^{M! T} 18:23, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

What's the deal with the referrer in your link?--ConfusedMatthew 13:08, 31 March 2010 (BST)

I think it may have actually been mentioned somewhere on his talk page, but I'm not sure tbh. --

 

 

 

 

13:14, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Vandalism?

I could be wrong, but I think there's been some high-scale vandalism on the Malton suburb map. --TheBardofAwesome 05:35, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Oh yeah, it might be April first where some of you live...nevermind. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheBardofAwesome (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Yep, it was a prank for April Fool's done by a random user. I've reverted the edits. —Aichon— 07:21, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Suburb Maps on redrum.soul-fantasy.net

On each suburb's page, there is a link to it's map on redrum.soul-fantasy.net. For example, Dakerstown is http://redrum.soul-fantasy.net/map.php?suburb=1. These maps were very high quality and superior to the other maps available on the wiki.

This website has been down for the last few months. Does anyone know why? --BravoLeader 06:55, 6 April 2010 (BST)

I think a major historical UD portal went down a month or two ago... I think it was Resens or something, this may be where the maps were hosted. I'm very sure there were mirror sites somewhere... --

 

 

 

 

07:18, 6 April 2010 (BST)

There are two alternatives that offer similar features as the old RedRum one:

• http://map.aypok.co.uk/index.php
• http://dssrzs.org/map

Hope those help if that has been a request for alternatives. --Spiderzed 07:39, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Oh man, thanks for that, nice work! --

 

 

 

 

07:59, 6 April 2010 (BST)

Speaking on either of those maps, spiderzed, do you know if there is an option to turn the free running lanes on and off? this was a great aspect of the redrum map and I can't seem to find it on either of these maps? ty in advance. --Dirty 00:17, 19 April 2010 (BST)

Neither of those maps has the feature, though I don't know why, since it's easy to set up. One of the scripts I wrote even has free running lanes indicated, though you can't toggle it. —Aichon— 01:02, 19 April 2010 (BST)

furthermore...

Should we be replacing the redrum links (on individual suburb pages) above with the new ones? the redrum maps have been down for a while haven't they? --

 

 

 

 

11:33, 18 April 2010 (BST)

We should. The old links won't work any more since they don't use that domain name any longer. Personally, I'd prefer the DSS maps, I think, though I suppose we could consider ways to introduce both links in order to not play favorites. —Aichon— 11:39, 18 April 2010 (BST)

You lot are the code monkeys, can't we find a way to replicate the same system in the wiki so we don't have to rely on a third party and potentially partisan website? I thought we'd learnt this lesson with the iWitness link on the main page. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 12:21, 18 April 2010 (BST)

If I had the time, I could make one, sure, but it'd still have to be hosted on my own site, rather than here, since there's just no way to replicate some of those features in wikicode. In the end, that'd be as partisan as anything else, since I'd be driving traffic to my own site for personal gain. —Aichon— 00:12, 19 April 2010 (BST)

Just following up, after getting a reminder on my talk page, I did go ahead and modify Template:Suburb to point to DSS instead. It was a relatively painless fix, though I had to apply a urlencoder in order to have it handle the suburbs with two words in the name. I couldn't see a feasible way to work in both maps, nor do I see how we could produce our own on the wiki, so, for now, I'm just maintaining the status quo. Let me know if you spot any problems, or feel free to tweak it yourself since that template isn't protected. —Aichon— 09:00, 27 April 2010 (BST)

Looks good. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 11:15, 27 April 2010 (BST)

Party's goin' down.

Anyone here interested in dropping by?

I didn't know if this was the best place to post a wiki-wide discussion of UD, but I couldn't find anywhere better. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:32, 24 May 2010 (BST)

Huh? --

 

 

 

 

00:42, 24 May 2010 (BST)

:( Can't. MTG nationals qualifiers. If I go 0-3 first day I'll maybe find time to swing by. 00:44, 24 May 2010 (BST)

Oh. Sorry. Hosting this at the same time as Escape was a silly idea :( --

 

 

 

 

01:01, 24 May 2010 (BST)

Ffffffffffffft. Those guys? I didn't even know they had something planned on the same day, but you could see this as an anti-ESCAPE movement. ESCAPE is all about leaving Malton because people want an end; the MMS bash is all about enjoying Malton and partying it up with our fellow UDers. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:22, 24 May 2010 (BST)

This is a bad day for everyone. MCM Expo, Mis' MTG tournie, Escape, etc. Make it the weekend after and I'm all yours... :( --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:56, 24 May 2010 (BST)

If I could... but I can't. Too much planning has already gone into it. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:18, 25 May 2010 (BST)

Ah well. You'll just have to make do without us then. --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 21:00, 25 May 2010 (BST)

Shame about that. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 21:20, 25 May 2010 (BST)

partywasoffthe hook. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 19:46, 1 June 2010 (BST)

Could use some wiki-help...

Mazzola is trying to add some content to the previously barren Membry Lane Fire Station page. An admirable desire I'm sure we'll all agree, and it arises out of an attachment he feels to the place his character started out. Unfortunately, he isn't well versed in the nuances of NPOV/POV wikilawyering, and honestly, I'm not entirely sure where the lines are myself. Could a user who knows this system better, possibly even a sysop (though anyone would be appreciated), consider helping him flush out this page in a wiki-friendly manner? I think he just needs some clear DOs and DONTs or something of that ilk. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 18:29, 26 May 2010 (BST)

Bump. Still need some help with this page. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:52, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Had a browse, fixed it as I saw fit. The only thing I thought was slightly off was the nude paintings bit, so I removed that. Anyone in the world feel free to revert my edits.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:56, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Well he's going to keep editing and updating it; what he really needs is someone who can tell him what is and isn't acceptable POV. I certainly can't do it: I have no idea. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:01, 28 May 2010 (BST)

Some odd questions

I've had a couple questions regarding things that may or may not have already been covered. If the questions have already been covered, please feel free to delete this topic after directing me to the answers.

1. I understand that the city of Malton is divided up into suburbs, but where would the actual suburban houses be? Would they be found on the streets like Wilton Drive and if so, wouldn't the streets have a higher percentage of finding items as most suburban houses have some amount of usable items?

2. I haven't checked all the wastelands yet, but would construction sites be seen as wastelands RP-wise?

I'll add more questions as I come across them.

--TheBardofAwesome 01:51, 27 May 2010 (BST)

All the houses were eaten by a grue, and since this is in England, they don't have construction sites: only warlock gathering lots and places that still haven't been fixed since the last air raid. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:00, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Grue must have quite a large appetite, especially for fictional predators who revel in the dark. In addition, I thought the country of Malton was uncertain?--TheBardofAwesome 02:05, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Most people agree that Malton is in Kevin's home country (plus, it has pubs), and inspired by an actual city of the same name in England. You can consider the part of Malton survivors are trapped in to be the downtown portion: devoid of housing except in hotels and the office-like apartments. The wastelands can be whatever you want them to be for RP purposes, but are likely undeveloped lots or (as you say) construction sites. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:17, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Alright, thank you Lelouch vi Britannia. --TheBardofAwesome 02:28, 27 May 2010 (BST)

No problem. Feel free to raise any other questions you might come up with; I'll be here all eternity. Party on Friday! Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:30, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Malton's actually having a by-election right now.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:37, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Simply put see Vinetown all the streets are assumed to be housing areas, and some wastelands are construction sites. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:54, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Speaking of which, Ross, I dunno if you've seen the Unemplementia posted area page, but I posted my two areas West and East Jackson. Their details follow the map. --TheBardofAwesome 18:31, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Thirsk and Malton By-election

Coming to a UDwiki near YOU! No seriously, another election-style thing, similar to Mayor of Malton, but for an MP seat (links to what's happening at this second, and prevents Morbulskond from losing his seat.) This is my suggestion for you all. Mull it over and give opinions. If there's positive feedback, I'll set something up on Monday after my weekend away.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:41, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Will you be running? --^TCAPD(╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ 22:42, 27 May 2010 (BST)

Mebee. Maybe not. We'll see how I'm feeling at the time.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 22:43, 27 May 2010 (BST)

No, just do another Mayor thing. You think maybe its about time the 2 year inactive was replaced? MP seats are too political and gay. WE NEED ONE ALMIGHTY AUTOCRAT! --

 

 

 

 

01:09, 28 May 2010 (BST)

I only like the MP thing because of the context in the real world. Whatever's good, this must be done.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:34, 28 May 2010 (BST)

I dunno, since the power is hollow and it's just for RP value, i've never seen a reason for it. But I guess it'll be fun. Just don't tell Sonny. --

 

 

 

 

07:37, 28 May 2010 (BST)

Right, we have to pull this off in less than a month! Quickly, to the gyrocopter!--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:43, 28 May 2010 (BST)

Haha!!! Love it! --

 

 

 

 

07:46, 28 May 2010 (BST)

I don't mind being an election monitor. I will be almost entirely impartial. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:57, 28 May 2010 (BST)

I hereby declare myself running. 15:04, 28 May 2010 (BST)

Anyone want to make a page for it?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:03, 31 May 2010 (BST)

People run as candidates and junk!--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:10, 1 June 2010 (BST)

Put this up on the Community Portal events IMO. I think this is a good demonstration of how this stuff should be pushed the community as fun, harmless RP material. --

 

 

 

 

04:40, 2 June 2010 (BST)

I would but for some reason I can't find it. Link please?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 09:56, 2 June 2010 (BST)

It's on the maaaaiiiiin ppaaaaaggeeee..... --

 

 

 

 

11:04, 2 June 2010 (BST)

{Facepalm} I've linked it now.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 11:17, 2 June 2010 (BST)

Insta-categorising

Considering adding Category:Groups in a <includeonly> tag in Template:Groupbox so all groups that use it are automatically categorised for our convenience. thoughts? --

 

 

 

 

14:52, 29 May 2010 (BST)

Make it another field. Have it so that completing a field with either "Survivor", "PKer" or "Zombie" will create complete the line of code [[Category:{{1}} Groups]]. Or do your way. Either way means less work. 14:55, 29 May 2010 (BST)

While I really like Mis' idea and wish it could be made to work, people will abuse it or misunderstand it and we'll end up with hundreds of variant spellings and oddball categories with just one entry in them each (take a look at Recruitment to see what groups identify themselves as, for instance). DDR's idea is simple and should work, however, and I think it'd be a good idea. —Aichon— 21:32, 29 May 2010 (BST)

Better yet, do both! Using {{Switch}}, {{Groupbox}} could be quite easily made to default to Category:Groups if an incorrect subcat is specifified. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 21:58, 31 May 2010 (BST)

I suppose that is true...hmm...*gears start turning* —Aichon— 23:32, 31 May 2010 (BST)

^What he said. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 22:27, 29 May 2010 (BST)

I considered doing a similar idea to Mis but its not newbie fail proof enough, as Aichon said. --

 

 

 

 

22:56, 29 May 2010 (BST)

Updates?

I was enjoying Urban Dead, but now the game has no new updates. Not offending Kevin in anyway of course! Its just at the moment its half way through summer,and we are still in Malton as winter! Are there new updates soon? The Shiz ^T|Z.I.D18:35, 30 June 2010 (BST)

I've heard plans for updates over the summer but I'm not sure how big or what they are. 18:42, 30 June 2010 (BST)

If anything else, you can suggest some new types of updates on the suggestions page. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 18:49, 30 June 2010 (BST)

Well, Kev cited a major update as the reason for no April fools update, and its UD's 5th anniversary in a week. Plus Kev's updating his twitter feed, so hes not dead. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 19:32, 30 June 2010 (BST)

Go to Kevan.org and play catfishing instead, it's better ;D --

 

 

 

 

02:32, 1 July 2010 (BST)

The Guides page and namespace, and reorganisation

Before I went on hiatus, I complied this list of guides that were in the mainspace, and a suggested move-to location. This is to keep consistency throughout the Guides name space. I'm thinking about (finally) getting around to putting that list through A/MR when I give it a quick update, but I figured it would be prudent to ask if anyone has any complaints first. So, complain here.

Also, it's probably well overdue that we remove the text at the top of the guides page with something more modern. At the moment, the text is from 2005 and is largely irrelevant. It's probably worth replacing it with a block of text introducing the page and stating that edit rules are generally different for guides. Again, sound off if you've got any problems. Linkthewindow  Talk  15:54, 15 July 2010 (BST)

My only problem is that I don't think I have enough excuses to not fill the move requests. Stick them up and I'll work through them after work tonight, I see no reason why they shouldn't be moved. As for updating the preamble to the Guides page, I'll see what I can manage. 15:56, 15 July 2010 (BST)

I'll have another look for guides that aren't in the correct namespace, and then stick it up. Linkthewindow  Talk  15:59, 15 July 2010 (BST)

Sounds good, keep the redirects on the page moves. If you post it up before I go sleepytimes, I'll help out. --

 

 

 

 

16:02, 15 July 2010 (BST)

As for the text at the top of the Guides page, it should be in a neutral "These are player written guides for other players to learn from way", rather than direct attribution to other sites and people at the top. It makes it clearer and less misleading.-- Adward  16:03, 15 July 2010 (BST)

New text nao. Let me know what you think. 16:04, 15 July 2010 (BST)

Added in a note saying that some (very few) guides are collectively edited. Linkthewindow  Talk  16:06, 15 July 2010 (BST)

Looking good. It trims the unneeded junk about an outdated forum, while retaining the information about the best guides and how to, and how not to use them.-- Adward  16:07, 15 July 2010 (BST)

Once those pages are moved I'll post on Kevan's talk and ask him to create a proper namespace out of Guides (and also to update the damn wiki software :P). Linkthewindow  Talk  13:44, 16 July 2010 (BST)

Don't ask for the latter, else he might just ignore the entire post ;D --

 

 

 

 

13:46, 16 July 2010 (BST)

I'm starting to think it's time for another official policy/petition thing :P. Worked last time. Linkthewindow  Talk  13:55, 16 July 2010 (BST)

To think we might be able to delete the ghosts... I... I just don't know what to think... ;_; --

 

 

 

 

13:59, 16 July 2010 (BST)

The ghosts would be kept and protected as historical pages ;). Linkthewindow  Talk  14:09, 16 July 2010 (BST)

Historical Events in themselves! --

 

 

 

 

14:37, 16 July 2010 (BST)

The ghosts are an endangered species. :D -- Adward  14:51, 16 July 2010 (BS

Seriously, does anyone have a problem with another petition to update the software. It's years old. Linkthewindow  Talk  17:21, 16 July 2010 (BST)

Make it so. 17:25, 16 July 2010 (BST)

It will be done ... in the morning. Linkthewindow  Talk  17:27, 16 July 2010 (BST)

Nup, I didn't check either so it's good you did the logical way. --

 

 

 

 

01:34, 19 July 2010 (BST)

Barricade Plan Modification.

I would like to implement a system by which buildings of different resource types can also be revealed to be ruined, powered, or unpowered. I already have the technical knowledge to do this, which I gained from the addition of the "perma-ruin" designation. I would not be creating this to change the way barricade plans function on this wiki; I merely wish to use this ability for my personal ends and the ends of those affiliated with me.

However, this is a big change (even if it's just an addition) to a major wiki component, so I came here before creating the necessary components. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:26, 17 July 2010 (BST)

What's your proposed method? 00:27, 17 July 2010 (BST)

I'd just create the necessary templates representing each condition. If you want, you could link them to the "barricade plan" article, but I don't see that as necessary, since this is mainly for personal use. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:30, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Yes, but how do they work with the existing information? I'm assuming it's a colour change or something similar - do they convey the information needed instead of other information, or alongside everything already there? 00:32, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Keep the border colour for type identification, and use interior colour to indicate status. You are now obligated to support this idea due to my superior, English, spelling. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:36, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Seems ok. I say give it a go. 00:38, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Splendiferous. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:40, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Preliminary test results are good, and up in my lab if you care. Of course, you've probably already stalked your way to them via recent changes... Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:47, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Right you are. I dunno, I'm not quite feeling it. Reverse it, maybe. Have the interior colour represent type, and the border represent status. 00:49, 17 July 2010 (BST)

You know, that really fits the current barricade level identification mechanic nicely. I guess I'll start changing them over. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:58, 17 July 2010 (BST)

It's a real pain to differentiate between the normal black border and my ruin colour. I guess you can tell on all the TRPs because they normally have different borders, but generic buildings will be tough to differentiate.

I either need a new colour, or a new system of representing this info. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:01, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Try a bone shade, like #EAEAAE. 01:06, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Check it out; you can barely even tell it's there on the auto repair, and that's just because we know to look for it. Also, I can see by your code that you coloured that word, so I figured I should tell you that my browser doesn't read those. I wrote a custom script for page viewing that defaults everything to black, white, and green. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:15, 17 July 2010 (BST)

I see what you mean. It might be tough finding a colour that work against all the different colours yet is unique enough to work. Perhaps a tinted grey, like cinerous (#98817B) or bistre (#3D2B1F); or a pale brown like écru (#C2B280) or taupe (#483C32). I may in fact know too much about colours. 01:28, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Check the history; every one of those closely resembles an existing border type. What was so bad about the first method, again? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:34, 17 July 2010 (BST)

The first method seems like it's trying to convey something through borders. The border colour stands out so much it seems like the most important thing when it's secondary to the status. Perhaps universally muting all the building type colours would help. 01:40, 17 July 2010 (BST)

I think the building colours are important quick-identification tools. Removing them to keep boarders intact would be like removing your arm to stop an itch, in my opinion. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:32, 17 July 2010 (BST)

But your way removes the building colours and keeps the borders. 02:35, 17 July 2010 (BST)

The borders are coloured just like the buildings. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:04, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Yes. Your idea keeps the smaller indicator of type and replace the larger one, mine keeps the larger one and replaces the smaller one. That way you show "building type x with y status", and not "status type x in building type y". 03:09, 17 July 2010 (BST)

I don't like it much more than you do, but I just haven't found a colour that's easily visible along the boarder while also being distinct from all other border colours. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 03:20, 17 July 2010 (BST)

I don't understand why this is being brought up again, let alone being brought up as a formal request, given that we addressed it last month and it shouldn't require outside input. There should not be a need to change the official barricade plan templates. Just do what Maverick did and create new templates that you can use in your barricade plans. Then, for the code that looks like type01=NT in the barricade plan usage, just replace NT with the name of your special template (e.g. Maverick made Template:BP-NTRuin, which he uses by editing the code so it looks like type01=NTRuin (I'd suggest naming it something more unique in order to avoid future conflicts, however).

Now, if what you want to actually do is redo the barricade plan templates so that they can be used officially for this purpose, then I'm gonna have to disagree with the idea for reasons I cited in that earlier discussion. Until we can identify a good way of handling the problem (and I do have some ideas for handling ruins on the barricade plans), I'd prefer not to do it officially. Also, there's a question of purpose, in that the barricade plans are meant to represent the ideal state of the suburb, whereas whether a building is lit or ruined is a matter of its current status, and representing both in the same graphic isn't advised since the purposes are orthogonal to each other. So, if we did want to do something like this, it may just be better (and I prefer better over easier most of the time) to make a new template with that express purpose. —Aichon— 07:24, 17 July 2010 (BST)

I don't see why you'd want it even if it did look good. Just make a map based on danger reports, so you don't have to update them and a totally separate map. That said, I think "I merely wish to use this ability for my personal ends and the ends of those affiliated with me." means he agreed with you in the first place. --VVV ^RPMBG 08:45, 17 July 2010 (BST)

I figured he was talking about something else since he was asking for permission to make major changes to the barricade plan template for personal reasons. —Aichon— 09:25, 18 July 2010 (BST)

Ya, my response to this conversation was going to be along the lines of "mehmehmehmehmehmehmeh". There's no reason why you should need to change entire cade plan template for such a directed change, as aichon. --

 

 

 

 

14:49, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Did you guys check out my changes? Aichon's idea is exactly what I went ahead and did. As for danger reports: like I said, this isn't meant to be linked to those in any way. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 22:37, 17 July 2010 (BST)

Admittedly, I did not, but I saw you talking about border changes and the like and figured you were trying something else. —Aichon— 09:25, 18 July 2010 (BST)

The border styles were an experimental alternative that came with a lot of color and readability issues. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 19:27, 18 July 2010 (BST)

Achievements

I'd like to make a template-based achievement system for Urban Dead, then start a movement to make them popular amongst wiki users. This will involve an assload of template making, though most of it will probably use the flagbox template and prevent an avalanche of useless space. First off will be porting in Dead Rising achievements.

Anyone in? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:24, 3 August 2010 (BST)

Maybe. Not if it's going to be super trenchy though. 00:30, 3 August 2010 (BST)

Naw, it'd be whatever the game's achievements are, maybe tailored a bit for UD. I.E. "kill 50,000 zombies" (bad example), survive 24 hours outdoors, change into 25 different outfits, take an iWitness of more than 50 players, Be in the same building as 8 female survivors...etc. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:52, 3 August 2010 (BST)

Lol! If you keep the hilarious variety up and require proof, it could work. I won't participate though, not really my thing --

 

 

 

 

01:59, 3 August 2010 (BST)

I could require proof, but it's easy to fake those, and some of them can't be proven. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 02:32, 3 August 2010 (BST)

So like with Video Cameras? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 08:50, 3 August 2010 (BST)

No, this would be entirely meta; no actual game features would be changed (or probably could be). It'd just be for fun. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 16:27, 3 August 2010 (BST)

I would support this, and may even help in the creation of some achievements if needed. I would recommend a page sized template which users could make a new page for in their user space, and then slots for the achievements to fit in to. It would be easy to update, and would look good. You'd need someone adept at coding though, or to give me a day to rummage through the code from GSGM's last template.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 23:34, 9 August 2010 (BST)

I have a lingering suspicion you're referring to me...and don't bother with the GSGM's code. It's a BEAR to work with, especially if you weren't there when I wrote it and weren't looking over my shoulder. Even I have trouble following all of it if I go back and look at that template now. But yes, an idea like that could be implemented with far simpler code, I should think. I'd want to see some mockups of ideas though, since I'm not particularly keen on designing and implementing, nor am I interested in the idea on its own merits. —Aichon— 23:56, 9 August 2010 (BST)

Well, when I'm free, I'll have a look through. It'll be good for me, and it'll help me get better at wiki-coding generally, even if I don't crack the problem at hand.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 23:58, 9 August 2010 (BST)

File:Image.png	Outdoorsman
	This user has survived 24 hours outdoors

Example^ We just import the achievement icons (or something more appropriate) and make a template for it. Users just make an "achievement" subpage or subsection and post the relevant accomplishments there. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 00:16, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Yeah, personally, that's how I'd do it. Another way to do it, which is more in line with what Yonn suggested, would be to make some sort of a "panel" with empty slots in it, and as you complete achievements, the boxes fill in with little images, ribbons, or just miniflagboxes for those achievements. It's possible, and the code wouldn't be too hard, but, as I said, I'd want to see someone else come up with a design for it, since I'm not doing it. If someone can work out most of the design though, I might be able to be finagled into coding it up. Again though, I'd go with your idea of just using flagboxes if you're going to pursue this thing. Much easier, and people already understand them. —Aichon— 00:31, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Create a template that's a table with empty cells spaced out at the right size for each achievement, with a comment tag in each hiding the achievement's code. Simple case of removing the comment tags for each one as it's completed. 00:35, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Sort of like this. 01:01, 10 August 2010 (BST)

If it means that "regular" people will have to look at raw code for tables, it isn't going to work well enough, no matter how simple. —Aichon— 01:07, 10 August 2010 (BST)

All they need to do is copy-paste blocks at a time (tables can be made all at once, and released as "achievement packs" themed around a thing, so increasing counts of something can be one "pack" which is one table. All the end user needs to do is remove the comment tags around the achievement, and it'll be clearly marked which one it is. 01:08, 10 August 2010 (BST)

I'll say again: I think it's asking too much of regular users. You're underestimating their level of incompetence. Just look at Suggestions, Developing Suggestions, or Recruitment. —Aichon— 01:37, 10 August 2010 (BST)

We'd have to update the tables every time we added an achievement, right? Not sure about that... Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 01:38, 10 August 2010 (BST)editconflict

I really dislike the idea of dumbing everything down just so the lowest common denominator can get it right away. It's pretty simple, and anyone having trouble with it will be able to come to one of the people involved in the project and ask, thus learning about things directly. Also, Lelouch, nope. Like I said above, you'd divide achievements into groups, with one of those tables per group. New achievements just mean creating a new table. They'd just nest one above another when added to a page, or could be given separate headers to differentiate different classes of achievement. 01:42, 10 August 2010 (BST)

What I've been working on, Seen here, is a page which users would template in to their user space as a new page, or could be at request, and then they would add the Achievement templates to the bottom of the list. Each template would be a title, description, and then an open date field, and would fit with the open table above. They could also have fancy colours. The template addign is idiot-proof, and I feel it would look better than the somewhat ugly standard templates which we already have, as seen above.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 10:04, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Examples here and here, but obviously with a nicer looking header. Thoughts?--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 10:13, 10 August 2010 (BST)

There's also a very poor example of a page to explain it to people located here.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 10:57, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Very nice system. The block colours are a bit of an eyesore, but the templates look great. I assume the images go in the leftmost box? Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 17:20, 10 August 2010 (BST)

No, wait, where do the images go? Are we doing without them? I guess we don't need them... Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 17:21, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Images are a simple addition. If you gimme a second I could update mine to show some images. I'd go with one image for a range of achievements, rather than one for each. I guess what I'm thinking visually is a bit like the missions in Urban Rivals, with grouped achievements sharing an image but having different names, etc. 17:27, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Images might be more trouble than they're worth. The current method I'm leaning towards would require the importing of about 100 images into the wiki; that sounds like a lot of work. Lelouch vi Britannia is helping make Ridleybank green_ and gives Achievements 17:30, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Images integrated in my system. 60px default.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2 18:08, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Ditto. Currently just mock-ups but that'll give you a look at what it might look like. 18:10, 10 August 2010 (BST)

Scout Safehouse: A Quandrey

So, it's established that Scouting a safehouse grants a 10% chance of a free action within the building for the cost of 30AP. This is theoretically highly inefficient; under the best circumstances, it would take at least six days of doing nothing but actions inside the safehouse to justify scouting.

Now, this is my quandary: does the 10% apply to all actions? Including AP intensive ones, like reviving?

Essentially, is it possible to get a free revive inside a building with the Scout Safehouse skill? ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 02:58, 25 August 2010 (BST)

Even if revives are also free at a 10% rate, you don't reduce the break even point of 300AP. But you might be able to exploit it in a similar method as Guides:Beyond average damage. If you wanted 20AP for free, you are more likely to get it with two free revives than twenty free 1AP actions. --  RoosterDragon  03:36, 25 August 2010 (BST)

The thing I'm wondering is if this could be exploitable in (rot revive) places like The Devonshire Building, where indoor revives are fairly common.

Also, a cookie to the first person who takes a screenshot of a free revive. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 03:41, 25 August 2010 (BST)

Keeping are rot revive open but unruined would be a challenge in itself. --  RoosterDragon  05:30, 25 August 2010 (BST)

I've seen it happen in places like The Devonshire Building where they put up a few barricades to keep the riff-raff out. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 05:54, 25 August 2010 (BST)

We also have no guarantee that it would spare you 10 AP rather than just 1 AP. —Aichon— 06:51, 25 August 2010 (BST)

Event help

This is a call to any past event planners. I've got a new event project in the works that I'd like to get off the ground soon (mid-September). Check proof of concept and some design concepts here. I'll be honest I've never launched an event before and I could use some help. Either direct help or some guidance would be greatly appreciated. I want it to be successful but the more I brainstormed the event the more difficult it seemed it would be to launch. I've asked for help from my group so I hope to have some backup but so far I've only received some feedback and not much in the way of volunteers. So what do ya say? Wanna help this n00b get an awesome event off the ground? ~ 21:16, 25 August 2010 (BST)

First tip: make an awesome wiki page, which you've done. Second tip, I think from watching many events come and go, most of the negotiations and invitations are done off the wiki. Go and find out some groups and let them know of your event and that you'd like them there. Don't do this on the wiki, a lot of groups are apathetic about stuff on the wiki imo, though an awesome wiki page means it isn't going to look unappealing and shit, like the "Lets not get our asses kicked" business going on now. That's my two cents. -- LEMON #1 01:41, 26 August 2010 (BST)

Thanks for the tip. I've been doing just that with my main alt, trying to stir up some interest in the first of the three events. So far so good I think. I've also almost completed the wiki page. I'd kind of like some more feedback. Basically just wanting to know if it will likely be a successful event(s). Some of the events I've planned might rely on high numbers of participants, so I'm going to start pimping it heavily very soon. If I've left off something or I've done something that would ensure it's failure, I'd like to know before I launch it officially so I could possibly replan. Thanks for the help. ~ 05:38, 31 August 2010 (BST)

Questions

I'm not really sure where I should be asking the following questions so if I'm in the wrong spot, let me know. Thanks :)

Anyway, I have two questions about Malton and its suburbs.

1. What is the layout of Malton like? I know it's composed of suburbs and bordered to the north by the river Kevan and mountain ranges as well as a forest to the east. I'm mainly referring to the actual layout of the suburbs. Are they compact and tightly knit together like a city block or spread out and interwoven with rivers and fields? It's kind of an odd question, but I'm curious because I've seen pictures of England and it's styled differently than New York and I don't know if the city of Malton is merely a regional name containing suburbs like London, or if it's like New York with each city block being a suburb.

2. Are suburb names like Stanbury Village and Foulkes Village merely a play-on-words like New York's Greenwich Village, or are they actual small-town villages like the fictional village of Sandford in the movie, Hot Fuzz?

I'm sorry if there's any confusion. Typing logically with a headache don't go hand-in-hand together. --TheBardofAwesome 05:16, 4 September 2010 (BST)

I like to think of it as an old and 'naturally' evolving city like London or Dublin, where it's tightly packed but uneven, as opposed to the regulated and ordered layout of new cities like New York or Sydney. While it fits on a grid, it's only for convenience sake, and is probably pretty irregular in layout. As for the second point, I'd say it's a halfway point between the two - cities often grow to consume outlying towns, and it's quite concievable that Stanbury and Foulkes were border towns that are now blended right into the sprawl of greater Malton. 07:33, 4 September 2010 (BST)

I kind of agree, villages swallowed up by urban sprawl over time. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:14, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Haha, this is fucking hilarious. Because from a roleplaying point that is an amazing thought, though honestly, as if it isn't just completely random. -- LEMON #1 10:44, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Malton is real! Im actually watching one of its residents on television now. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 10:45, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Wait, what? Isn't malton randomly laid out? -- LEMON #1 12:19, 4 September 2010 (BST)

Sorry about the wait, I've been busy with class. I'm pretty sure Malton is randomly laid out as I've noticed that street patterns in suburbs don't match up as well as some malls and buildings being placed too close to each other. I just don't think that if Malton was planned out, there'd be such a great number of malls located some ten blocks from each other. --TheBardofAwesome 16:12, 28 September 2010 (BST)

It's randomly placed, but it's based on Malton in Yorkshire. Some building names or suburb designs may have been arbitrarily based on things, but it seems random to me.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:09, 28 September 2010 (BST)

Building status template, modified for revive points

Thoughts? -- LEMON #1 11:46, 14 September 2010 (BST)

Funny you should mention. I've been playing around with the source past few days. I'm trying to figure out a way to display number of days at current status. I like the idea of a revive point status except that a good chunk of RPs are not actually buildings.~ 14:59, 14 September 2010 (BST)

Supplement U:DR with a side project, User:RevivePoint or whatever, which functions pretty similarly only it has status images for indoor, outdoor and rot revive, and is generally updated with queue lengths. Can be added to outdoor pages to finally give some of them a bit of use. 15:03, 14 September 2010 (BST)

The templates used on the RP List can be used on those pages, and we also have a Template:RevivePointBox that a few pages use (almost never updated though) which auto categorizes into Category:Revive point. Just saying it exists, I'm not supporting it. Also bear in mind that the revive request tool currently relies on the RP List for its data so you can't futz around with it much.

Also if anybody supports that "User:RevivePoint" is a good way to name these pages I will murder them. --  RoosterDragon  17:20, 14 September 2010 (BST)

I was giving a lot of thought to this recently for an unrelated/nonexistent reason, and while I did throw around quite a few different ideas, the only one I could definitively settle on was that I wanted to name these pages with "User:RevivePoint". Thoughts? Concerns? —Aichon— 21:12, 14 September 2010 (BST)

Why would we continue to use the User namespace? The only reason it was initially implemented like that was because no one on the wiki knew about templates at the time. -- LEMON #1 06:15, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Though I would support it just for consistency's sake. I'll get to work on an example code sometime. -- LEMON #1 06:20, 15 September 2010 (BST)

It was a sarcastic comment made to poke fun at Rooster. See my edit comment. Yes, my humor is stupid, but it's mine, dangit! —Aichon— 07:38, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Ha ha, I'd still prefer you making the jokes than no-joke-aichon, even if no one gets them :D -- LEMON #1 08:02, 15 September 2010 (BST)

I'd like thoughts on the variables now. What do we think should appear on the template? Rather than an imagerised-status like "safe" or "under siege" one used for the Mall/Building status, I think numbers should do instead, regarding how many zombies are there?

|Number=

|Comment=

|User=

Thoughts? -- LEMON #1 06:20, 15 September 2010 (BST)

I'm rather fond of the style used on List of Revivification Points (such as User:RevivePointUpdate/Rhodenbank). We could alter this template style to the BIC style, and have the variables as

|Status= (Active, Slow, Dangerous, Unknown)
|Comment= Comment, numbers
|User= Sig

I'd support the use of a status image/light over simply stating as the number is liable to rapidly change while the overall status will remain relatively constant in the short run. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 06:40, 15 September 2010 (BST)

The best thing about updating building statuses is that you can update them from looking once and just buggering off. To see whether a revvie point is slow or dangerous you'd have to spend at least 24 hours there. Leave that for the comments IMO, and have a numbers bar for the quantitative stuff that "Safe/Under Siege/In Zombie Hands" used to deal with IMO -- LEMON #1 06:45, 15 September 2010 (BST)

|ReviveRequestLink=

|Status=

Pretty much a hybrid of RP List and Building Status is what you're thinking, right? ~ 06:44, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Please tell me nobody's actually considering putting a DEM tool, which largely doesn't work in most areas of Malton, on 1000s of wiki pages?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 07:50, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Doesn't work? That's new to me, the tool's features are working just fine. If you were referring to requests that aren't served due to a lack of revivers, then putting a link on more pages would actually solve this ;-) I think we can all agree that a city-wide tool for managing revives can indeed be useful (as long as it works and is maintained), regardless of whether it's coming from the DEM or any other organization, right? G F J 13:47, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I've tried it numerous times (I have at least one request up now) and I've never encountered anyone reviving from it. We should have links to local revive requests, not some stupid autonomous group claiming their active everywhere and that their revive tool is more important than the local ones which will actually get you revived.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 15:54, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I'm sorry if so far you were unlucky using the tool to get revives for your own characters. Others have made different experiences, though, and I seem to be unable to find a request from you that's still on the tool? Regarding that stupid autonomous group, well, that does sound a bit like the usual anti-DEM stuff, with "evil DEM oppressors" and all those unbacked claims. And no, we are not claiming to be everywhere, by the way. Anyway, discussing the DEM is not what this page should be about I believe, so if you'd like to continue that, let's meet elsewhere :-) In the meantime, allow me to ask you to perhaps judge the features of the revive tool itself (the way you would judge it if it came from a different group than the DEM) instead of judging the group it created. Thank you, G F J 16:51, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I am judging the features of the revive tool. It doesn't work. If I see links to your revive request tool on the dulston pages, I'll remove them because they have no right being there. Your group do4esn't operate in the area, and your revive tool shouldn't be linked there. it fucks with newbies who could actually get a revive if they went to the right people.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 18:20, 16 September 2010 (BST)

Take the discussion elsewhere much? It's a tangential issue that can be handled on talk pages. Adding RP templates to the actual location pages and suburb pages will be a big help to everyone, which is what we're getting at here. Any other benefits that groups may derive are a separate discussion. —Aichon— 19:29, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I have no issues with a template, but giving a group's tool a link on 1000s of pages is BS.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 19:52, 16 September 2010 (BST)

hurdles

I didn't know the RP List page was up and a status system already in place, so this is somewhat redundant. Although, the only reason I wanted one was that I felt having one at the top of the page for a revive point would help people a lot more. Like, dude, I've been on this wiki every day for 2 years and I didn't even know about the RP list :/

So I have a quick Q about the RP list system and how it could be implemented into a top of the page, Dangerreport-like template: When you update an RP list entry, does that carry over to say, User:RevivePointUpdate/Rhodenbank? If so, I assume we could manipulate a smaller template to be used at the top of each RP's page? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DanceDanceRevolution (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Actually, you have it backwards. In your Rhodenbank example, you have to change it in order to have the main list update. As Maverick has been encouraging use of the district system, and as the district pages have been coming online over the last few weeks and months, folks setting up those pages have been moving the individual revive points off of the main list page and into templates for each suburb. Unfortunately, that doesn't give you the level of granularity you're looking for, since you want templates for individual revive points, which we really don't have, and I'm not entirely sure we should have it either, since revive points come and go, depending on groups in the area and whatnot, unlike TRPs or other locations that are defined by the game itself. —Aichon— 08:11, 15 September 2010 (BST)

That's also one of the issues with this recent system though- no one updates or keeps track of a system they don't even know exists- for most of the revive point pages there is nothing to indicate that they feature on an update-able list of revive points at all, and that they have status updates... People need to know such a thing exists and that it's there to be used. Some of it hasn't been updated in a year and a half... I didn't even know it existed... Wouldn't the better method be to have a system similar to the Danger report where the status lies on a template on the individual pages, and the reports on there are called onto portal pages which have all the categorised revive points? That way they are findable and updateable via where they actually are on the UDWiki map, rather than searching through "revive points" on the wiki. -- LEMON #1 08:29, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Possibly (I'm too tired to form an opinion at the moment). Two problems however: the current formatting of the RP list (specifically the yellow and white rows that alternate) will break if you put it on individual pages unless you want to be changing a lot of pages with updates for purely stylistic reasons, and it'll mean putting things that are not actually a formal aspect of those locations on those pages, as I mentioned previously. Personally, I don't consider the first an issue, since we can redesign the RP list so that it looks more like a BIC and isn't an issue. The second one is a philosophical issue, and, as I said, I don't have the energy to make an opinion right now. —Aichon— 08:49, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Yeah I'm finding this hard too - this involves coding and template knowledge beyond my abilities and and even then I still don't know the basics of how it works atm cause I haven't looked deeply yet. When I do I might be able ot help out more. -- LEMON #1 08:59, 15 September 2010 (BST)

I've had musings about how to deal with RPs for a while because I was annoyed at how they show up in so many places but aren't linked so nothing matches up. (such as: RP List, Suburb TRP List, Suburb Maps, Cade Plans, Individual Pages, RP Category...) Basically you're kinda boned because they're liable to change a whole bunch. So at the end of the day I say you keep the RP List since it's all in one place, it works and the DEM tool relies on it, and instead you try and remove some redundancy and get more links pointing to the list. For example the worthless template and category can go, and if you do have a list per suburb, you can get that to appear on suburb pages in some fashion. Chuck a link in the "Information Pages" section (see this musing on suburb pages in my sandbox) of each suburb page and you're getting somewhere.

The RP List has been there forever and worked fine. Just get some links going. --  RoosterDragon  18:12, 15 September 2010 (BST)

Help ddr make a template that shows individual locations RP status from the RP list on the top of individual pages??? pleeeeaseee? -- LEMON #1 05:05, 16 September 2010 (BST)

For what you're suggesting, I could see posting the suburb listing on top of the page working. So you could, say, post User:RevivePointUpdate/Rhodenbank on the top of The Upshall Monument, Orome Avenue, and the one graveyard no one ever uses. It would save quite a bit of template work (other than making sure each suburb had a listing), and could even be recycled on the suburb BIC pages, the main RP List, and other related pages. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 05:15, 16 September 2010 (BST)

You could include it wholesale. Alternatively, maybe use display:none to hide anything that doesn't match the page title (so only that page's RP info was shown). Would need some reworking, sure, but I think it's crazy enough to work. However, the following condition must be met. NO USER PAGES. Instead, they would all be moved to another set of pages. I guess maybe the same scheme as suburb BICs? --  RoosterDragon  05:44, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I like RHO's idea actually, sounds good man! -- LEMON #1 05:46, 16 September 2010 (BST)

The problem I have with it is that it makes no sense to include a template on a page simply because someone has decided to give it an arbitrarily designation (i.e. why does this block get it, but not that other one?). And who would actually maintain those templates as RPs come and go? That said, Rooster's idea (coupled with RHO's) would do the trick beautifully (and would give all of you location demerge folks a new job to keep busy with :P). We could add the RP list for each suburb to every block in the suburb, then configure it to only show a listing if the block the page is for actually shows up in the template (as per Rooster's genius idea). Should be quite doable, would maintain consistency across pages, would have a one-time setup cost, and wouldn't involve the maintenance nightmare of having to add and remove a template from location blocks as RPs come and go. In fact, it would add no additional maintenance at all once it was set up. Heck, we may even be able to include it in one of the existing templates that goes on location pages. Dunno, since I don't work with them much. —Aichon— 06:27, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I'm up for anything, I'm only apprehensive about going forward with things that are beyond my knowledge because it limits the input and help I can give to progress the project. I like all these current ideas. I just think a revive point status ON the location pages is a good idea is all. I've come to the pages from suburb a LOT and hoped there would be some sort of indication of whether the revive point is used or not. -- LEMON #1 06:40, 16 September 2010 (BST)

Sorry, the last two sentences were poorly explained, I was responding to your decision of the arbitrary nature of it all. Well, IMO the RP List and all the work done around that has done a good work at unifying all designated revive points under an informative and generally accepted banner. I've yet to go to a suburb page, attend an RP in-game as listed by the wiki and NOT find it an RP, in the last few months at least, with any alts. -- LEMON #1 06:43, 16 September 2010 (BST)

I think it's a good idea too, but my qualms were always about the implementation of it, which have now been figured out. Implemented as specified, it should be a simple matter of including the suburb RP list templates on each block for every suburb. Rooster or myself will have to work some magic with {{If equal}} (unless someone else feels up to it), but I already have similar stuff in use on BB3 and some more advanced stuff like that on the SoC pages (visiting certain pages will result in some changes to the header, but the same template is used for them all), so this shouldn't be too hard at all. We really should redesign the look of the main RP List before we do any of this other stuff, however, since we can't keep the yellow/white striping if we want this to work. —Aichon— 06:54, 16 September 2010 (BST)

Plus you'll have to test it to make sure whatever HTML gets churned out can still be worked by the revive tool. Also, what design are people expecting for the location pages? Just putting up the template as it is? Pretty much anything is possible here. We could just add a sentence to the locationblock saying "This is a revive point. It is active." if people wanted minimalist. Go think crazy things, it can probably be done. --  RoosterDragon  07:07, 16 September 2010 (BST)

This is a nice discussion. One question about the if equal code, though: The way you're intending to use it, would it go into a page such as User:RevivePointUpdate/Hollomstown (i. e. be on the RP list as well since the RPs are included with {{User:RevivePointUpdate/Hollomstown}}) or would it go into the location pages, like Cemetery 66,97, not affecting the RP list at all? If it's the first case, I would appreciate it if prior to changing everything we could create a temporary copy of how the "new" RP list would be like, enabling us to carry out some tests with the Revivification Request Manager and see if there are any problems. Since the tool is indeed used by a notable number of players (often, the number of active requests is kept small not because there simply is no one using it but because served requests are quickly removed; they are checked every two hours), I believe that it's also in the interest of the community to ensure that the tool will continue to fetch data about revive points, their status, maintainers, and so on. Regarding the redesign, by the way, in the worst case we could simply strip the current two-color-scheme and revert to a single color for all entries; while of course it's a lot better with more than one color, it's not the end of the world and it shouldn't decrease the usefulness of a central RP list too strongly. G F J 13:47, 16 September 2010 (BST)

Any redesign would likely go through some draft phases where we'd mock things up, though, since the wiki is independent of DEM and operates on its own timeline (which isn't determined by us or any policy, but rather merely by anyone who is actively contributing when they are able to do so), the wiki may not wait if DEM's tools need to be redesigned before moving forward with a new design here. I don't say that to be rude or dismissive, but rather just honest and forward about the way things work. And yes, my take is that the code would go on pages like User:RevivePointUpdate/Hollomstown (though we may finally make a point of moving it out of the user namespace?), that way it would have an "update once, appear everywhere" functionality to it. If people have to update the same information in multiple locations for it to work, then it simply won't work. —Aichon— 17:33, 16 September 2010 (BST)

… Please, no more pointless faux-userspace stuff. Danger reports should always have been under plain Danger Report. IF we're going to make a new set of pages for Revive Point status, for fuck's sake do it the right way from the beginning this time! ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 17:15, 20 September 2010 (BST)

I haven't read everything here yet, but I am going with Revenant on this one. No new faux userspace. More thoughts as I read things. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:38, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Style Ideas

In the interest of actually getting some feedback from everybody, rather than sitting here arguing technical details, I've knocked up some horrible horrible code to show off a few examples. Example location page the BuildingStatus-esque header is currently using the display:none trick to only show the RP for that page. I've also hardcoded a couple of other ideas onto the locationblock section. They're just rough scribbles, and we can easily add remove bits from them or adjust stuff. Think of them as "we could have something sort of ish here". The RP being displayed because it matches the title is being taken from the suburb list of RPs, and being formatted with the building-status-esque template, which again need look nothing like that.

So we can add the RP list for each suburb to any page we want, and get it to display however we want. But first

• Do we need to actually change the system at all? (different variables or new statuses or something)
• How do you want it to look on locations pages? (any ideas welcome)
• How do you want the RP list to look? (that's different from right now)

Ideas, people. Gogogo. --  RoosterDragon  13:51, 22 September 2010 (BST)

Not big on the revive request link.

I like the addition to the location basic info, but it should be called location, not building, since most RPs are outside anyway.

I think dangerous is not applicable to RPs, and should be removed. --VVV ^RPMBG 02:59, 23 September 2010 (BST)

I like it all, but as TripleU, remove the revive request link. I assumed that dangerous was for rotters in the revive queue though. If not, what is it? And on that note, is there some kind of special notice for rot revives?--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 08:49, 27 September 2010 (BST)

Dead tired right now since I didn't get much sleep last night, but I will look into whatever you've put together and will get back to you at some point. My head has been spinning with various ideas for entire architectural redesigns of the suburb map, suburb, and location page systems and templates for the last few days as a result of this general conversation. Seems to me that if we want to redo any of them, this is the perfect opportunity to do so, since we're already talking about editing every single suburb page and location page. I've been trying to come up with some comprehensive and robust ideas that would future-proof things as well, but haven't had time to get much into it yet. And I'm sure we'll be bouncing around a lot of designs over the coming days and weeks here... —Aichon— 05:05, 23 September 2010 (BST)

Grave Diggers?

Rumbling around the southern region of Malton, I've noticed many buildings with external and internal graffiti claiming them in the name of a group or gang called the Grave Diggers. Searching around the wiki, it turns out that the Grave Diggers played a part in several events, but other than that, I got nothing. My question is, is the Grave Diggers group still active or are these buildings just silent reminders of the past?

Also, is it particularly frowned upon or discouraged to take ownership of buildings that have been designated, in the past, the headquarters of groups such as The Umbrella Corporation?

I just don't want to be treading on the toes and turf of a group that is still in action. --TheBardofAwesome 01:28, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Easy. Inactive since 2008. See here, here, and here. Contact this guy for more info. --VVV ^RPMBG 01:38, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Alright, but from the looks of the Urban Sombrero discussion page, is he even still around? There's a lot of anger and words being sent in those comments. --TheBardofAwesome 01:47, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Looks like he ragequit, but I'm sure he wouldn't care about the group either way. --VVV ^RPMBG 01:52, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Alrighty, then. Thanks for clarifying. --TheBardofAwesome 01:58, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Regarding the taking over of buildings, there is no set procedure, it all depends on your group and the group who 'owns' or maintains the building and how they typically like to communicate. They may shoot you, they may bluff and try and coerce you to leave with threats, or they may just discuss it with you. Once when I made the ATO, we had friendly competitions with TZH over who could keep Kersley Mansion the safest so we could claim we owned it. The DA also gave us a building once to maintain under their roster, but we folded after zeds took it for a week (our group was hilariously inept cause we were all just irl mates having a laugh). I've just waltzed in and taken over buildings before while the group who 'owns' it is still operating, they take it none too kindly but everything can usually be solved with words. I guess the point of those little stories were to demonstrate that I've done a lot of building stealing/adopting and they are always a dynamic experience with different results. Just see how it goes. -- LEMON #1 02:58, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Alrighty, thanks for the reply. Yeah, there's a building I have my eye on, but before I make myself at home, I gotta repair it. <3 zombies but they really are a nuisance sometimes. --TheBardofAwesome 04:48, 4 October 2010 (BST)

They feel the same way about you. ;) —Aichon— 05:32, 4 October 2010 (BST)

Of course, but probably more so head shots :P --TheBardofAwesome 06:46, 4 October 2010 (BST)

u may want to try sharing the turf had the sae problem awhile back ended killin one another--Zombieman 11 01:02, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Archiving of Historical Group Nominations

Currently the archives for Cat:HG are done simply on two page, a successful archive and a failed archive. I want them done by group, similar to how promotions archives are handled. That would lead to archive pages looking like Category talk:Historical Groups/VoteArchive/Flowers of Disease or Category talk:Historical Groups/VoteArchive/(To The) Four Winds, etc. The root page Category talk:Historical Groups/VoteArchive would be a simple index page listing passed and failed nominations under two headers, chronologically (or perhaps in a sortable table so name, date, etc could be sorted). I will do all the grunt work needed for this myself so don't worry about it being a chore. Oppposed? Against? 04:46, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Definitely for. The A/PM approach scales better and is cleaner to look through afterwards. The current Passed and Failed archives are a real bear to use and, increasingly, to maintain. —Aichon— 04:49, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Plus large pages full of years worth of sigs is a recipe for disaster. 04:50, 18 October 2010 (BST)

I disagree just on the grounds that it isn't anywhere near as easy to maintain as the current Failed and Passed system at all- with what we have now, you just copy and paste. With the proposed system, you'd have to make a new page- ensuring that it's spelled correctly or changed accordingly if an existing archive has already been made for the same group, then copy it, then categorise it and then link it from what I assume will be a category page. Not to mention make sure it's protected (might as well, it won't be tampered with again). Doesn't sound easier to me at all.

As for the signatures, it isn't supposed to look pretty so I don't see what the big problem is tbh (although you are right, but all that means is that when the sigs break you make a new Passed or Failed archive and start afresh). As long as you fix the links accordingly (internal links will need to be redirected to the specific archive they mention) I guess you could do it, though there really is no problem with doing it the way it is now... BTW you might as well fix up the Battle of Blackmore/Historical Event Voting and stuff like those while you're at it ;) . -- LEMON #1 05:53, 18 October 2010 (BST)

Any other thoughts on this from anyone? 03:45, 25 October 2010 (BST)

Dick butt? 03:04, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Possible change to DangerMap?

As some of you may have seen, a few of us assembled together a map of Malton's suburbs, naming them in Zamgrh rather than in English. We also discussed the idea of changing the DangerMap template on {{DangerMap}} to display the suburb's Zamgrh name instead of its English name if its danger report status is red or orange. This could easily be achieved using the same code as {{Mall Logo}}, and is intended to serve the same purpose. Of course, these names are unofficial, but at the same time, so is the entire functionality of the DanderMap itself. Basically this would add a degree of flavour to the template, and also somewhat balance out the template's clear survivor-oriented tilt by a smidgen. Thoughts? 03:04, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Afraid I'm against it. The danger map is to serve as a reference, and many newbies use it as well. Having the actual names of the suburbs, as given in-game, clearly displayed on the map is of the utmost importance. I also wouldn't call it survivor bias if the names are merely what's reflected in-game, since it's just fact then. The idea fascinates me, to be sure, but the way it undermines usability makes it something we shouldn't do. —Aichon— 03:09, 27 October 2010 (BST)

It's more the functionality of it that's slanted - "moderately/very dangerous", etc are only applicable to one side - the DangerReport statuses are much better, with "in zombie hands" or "under siege", etc. Of course there's always ways to display it so that the English name still stays - striked through or within a span title, for instance. 03:11, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Take a cue from Sears and add a link? "Switch to Zamgrh". Maybe even change the danger level colors up for the Zamgrh Map. ~ 05:28, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Sounds like something that would never be edited, and become outdated rather fast. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:50, 27 October 2010 (BST)

It could be configured to provide different colors for the zombie map (e.g. reverse all of them). It wouldn't need to be updated separately at all. I've already done similarish things with other maps, such as for BB3 or my PKer's suburbs that he's killed in. This isn't a technical issue at all, though I imagine I'd be the one that would have to rig it up. It's strictly an aesthetic and usability issue, as far as I can see. —Aichon— 07:40, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Actually, looking at it some more, I think it might take an entire rewrite of the DangerMap in order to implement a change of this sort. While I have done things of this sort, it'd mean working from the ground up on a new system, rather than reusing what we already have. —Aichon— 23:19, 27 October 2010 (BST)

I assume it's possible based on what we have. I tried putting it together here and here, but made a hames of it. I asked Rooster what was wrong, but I think the set-up will work once the switch is sorted out. I figured that the alternate map could sit underneath the DangerMap on the Suburbs page, not overshadowing it but there for people to see and use. 23:22, 27 October 2010 (BST)

If it were to be on the suburb page, I would support it being linked here, and nothing else. What purpose does the zamgrh map serve that give it the special privlege to appear on the suburb page instead of maps like Template:SuburbInformationCenterMap or External Military Report Map, both of which have genuinly useful purposes?

As I've said, the map would be great on Barhah or linked to (as all the other special-interest maps are); it doesn't deserve special treatment. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 00:08, 28 October 2010 (BST)

I like the idea of a stricken English name. Shows what the place usually is, but also that it isn't that at the time. Imagine, Welcome to Barrville Barhahb!rrh! I'm not sure if it should apply to orange suburbs too. --VVV ^RPMBG 05:50, 27 October 2010 (BST)

I'm afraid I'd have to agree with Aichon. The Dangermap's purpose is to be a reference for all users, and quite frankly, the only additional function the zamgrh map adds is a clever in-joke for more involved players (while simultaneously causing potential confusion for the less metagame minded users). Such a map would be great on the Barhah page, or even listed under the "other maps" section of the main suburb page, but really shouldn't be messing with the main map. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 05:52, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Although TripleU's italic text gives me an Idea for a possible Mall logo-esque header for the individual suburb pages.~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 05:59, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Very against this. -- LEMON #1 07:42, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Although the discussion that came afterwards is pretty interesting- a zombie themed map as an alternative is pretty cool, though if all it does is change the names and reverse the colours it's really just a pointless flavour change. -- LEMON #1 07:46, 27 October 2010 (BST)

As Aichon, DDR, and particularly Red hawk. The map's primary function (whether it does it well or not is a completely separate matter) is to help newbies and other users in a useful manner. This would undermine that not only for survivors, but also for zombies trying to find out where they are. An alternative map is definitely plausible, but I wouldn't know where it should go.--User:Yonnua Koponen/signature3 10:26, 27 October 2010 (BST)

Questions (2)

I have a few questions regarding templates.

1. Is there a single official page that lists all templates?

2. It's a work in progress, but does the template I made here: Sandbox make any sense?

--TheBardofAwesome 07:39, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

For #1, nope, though if you're looking for a particular type of template, there are a few categories for them that might help you track down what you're looking for. Start here. For #2, which template? You seem to have a few on that page. None of them look too hard to understand, from what I see, though I didn't look too hard. —Aichon— 07:45, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello Aichon, how've you been? Haven't seen or for the most part, talked to you in a while. How's A&M going for you? I'm just looking for templates for characters like one for a drinker that isn't an alcoholic, philosophies regarding revives and buildings, etc. Also, I was referring to the Social Drinker template. I just organized the page so that should help in the future.

Finally have some time to relax after many long weeks of studying and working. Yay /sarcasm --TheBardofAwesome 07:49, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Pretty well. Trudging along as usual with my research. Anyway, see Yonn's response below. In addition, there's Category:Flagboxes, which is probably specifically what you're looking for. —Aichon— 23:07, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Full list of all templates on the wiki--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 14:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh. Yeah. There is that. Can't believe I forgot about it. >_< —Aichon— 23:07, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, it took me three goes to write out the link, so I'm in no position to brag. :P --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Question on Meaning of Suburb Danger Level Description

It has been a long running dispute between myself and another on the meaning of the Safe Suburb level. It state that : Break-ins rare, max 50+ zombies in suburb and no zombie groups above 10. Now about the last part does "zombie groups" mean if there are more than 10 zombies in one spot, OR if there is actual Zombie Group with more than 10 members?

If it is the former, for better clarification could it be changed to "groups of zombies"? Is this the right spot, and do we post at the bottom? If not please move to the appropriate spot.

Can I have opinion of an admin/syops whoever is responsible for an official decision of this kind? -- JD 20:40, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

It's zombie group as in "horde cluttering up the map", not as in "cluttering up the stats page". The latter would be hard to prove anyway, as opposed to just spotting a double-digit crowd in the streets. -- Spiderzed▋ 20:50, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I hate the danger levels for suburbs. They'd be much easier to grok if they mirrored the building reports. 21:07, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah, the Kempsterbank Question. Frankly its impossible to be absolutely clear. Say last week with St Ferreols Reclaimed by the fortress, the whole suburb was repaired but there was a horde of 20+ zombies on one square, this week, with the immediate area reruined, there are no groups of 10 zombies, but theres 20+ zombies in a 3x3 square. Not even getting started on the "break ins rare" aspect. Remember EMRP don't count zombies inside buildings. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 21:35, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I swear you must be watching my every move, or you spend wayy too much time on here Ross. But again, during the quiet times, when its just the dozen or so SFNAS guys working to hold the nine blocks of St Ferreol's, the fact that a dozen or so zombies wearing the same group tag should be enough to forever keep a suburb from attaining green seems inane. Also as far as scoping the all important numbers, two simple necronet sweep should be enough. I won't even look at the land mine issue that "frequency of break-ins" is. So can we end this issue once and for all, and perhaps change the wording to "group of zombies" to prevent future errors? JD" 02:40, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I am one of the two Crats here. So yeah, I am here too much. We should just have a custom template, where Kempster can be listed as safe but with a tiny red square in the top right of the display :). BTW. What happened with Stan the chopper? --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 15:37, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, and this thread shows how often I check up on the wiki, but THERE is a great idea, and it would give a much more accurate picture due to the special circumstances! How can we start getting that idea set up as my wiki'ing skills have atrophied long ago. As for Stan, there was a mess when one of your guys brought up a weak accusation of Zerging. After some debate, he choose to resign from KT in order not to drag the rest of KT down and bring disgrace to the group as a whole. As we always have said on our page, we take an extremely dim view on zerging, and that extends to the highest leadership, but he will be missed dearly. -- JDI 17:47, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Not that weak a case, but I suspected as much. Cheers. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 17:54, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Where's my "diagnosis" skill?

Call it a lame question, but my diagnosis skill doesn't work as described. It's meant to show HP values of survovors, but I see nothing like that: neither on the map nor in profiles. What's wrong with it? Pamejudd 18:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)pamejudd

Check it again after making sure you purchased it and refresh the page. If it still doesn't work, go to Bug Reports. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 18:53, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Also make sure you are not standing in a dark building. HP values inside unlit Banks, Cinemas, Clubs, and Fort Armouries will not be displayed. ~ 19:01, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Thx for your fast replies, guys. None of the above helped, though: I'm standing in a hospital and refreshed the page seral times. Bah! I even tried another browser to be sure... Pamejudd 19:21, 14 December 2010 (UTC)pamejudd

Forget it. The problem's solved: I didn't purchase "diagnosis". You may remove this act of stupidity. 19:24, 14 December 2010 (UTC)pamejudd

zombie leveling

i know its strange question but when this game 1st started how did zeds level up survivors had huge advantage over zombies in the biginning because they had skills such as the old headshot that took xp i was just wonderin how they levelled up before kevan changed it--Zombieman 11 23:33, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

They punctuated their sentences. ~ 23:36, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Full stops are the best for grinding. 00:16, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

They communicated through a medium which other people didn't use. Everyone does it, even you, when you "communicate" to your "roommate" Survvior 2.0 via our wiki. -- LEMON #1 00:41, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

You need to remember that survivors couldn't necessarily barricade buildings, let alone revive each other at the start, though zombies couldn't even open doors, to be fair. And headshot was changed within the first few months of the game. —Aichon— 00:45, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Death of Urban Dead?

I have seen the stuff on the status its very bad the game has not got many new players and is probaly losing some as well is it going threw a bad time or is it slowly going to die out?--Zombieman 11 21:40, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

It's halved its numbers since the game started and has only gone downhill. It's going to die for sure. But not for a long while. Honestly, if the game HAD to end, I would see us outlasting Kevan (if he were to have to pull the plug in the future due to funds or something). -- LEMON #1 22:10, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, because the wiki crowd will ultimately stay, and we'll just have endless manhunts across the whole city. :D --Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 16:49, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

About 53.5k users in Nov '05 down to 17k users today (Feb '11). See http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Statistics and http://www.urbandead.com/stats.html. This is an average loss of 580 users per month. If the overall rate of decay holds, there will be zero users in just over 2 years, 5 months from now (early Aug '13). Two things that will probably affect the rate of decay as it gets close to the end: 1) there may be a "floor" effect that slows the decay due to the most hard-core fans hanging on, and 2) there will almost certainly be a sudden drop-off when people realize it's over and everyone leaves at once. Doctor Golf 17:56, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

It's been floating around that number consistently for over four years now with the occasional spike. Don't worry, it's not going anywhere until Kevan chooses to shut it down, at least not for a while. --Karek^maps?! 23:50, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Dunno, man, I'm really starting to worry. Seems like every time I log in, the Malton Suburb Threat Map gets redder and redder. It's as if the survivors all up and left the world to Zeds and entropy. At some point, there won't be enough skilled/levelled survivors to maintain the balance. I think the humans have lost World War ZButterlegs 08:50, 13 May 2011 (BST)

I'm new here, but I'm curious why isn't there a push to make the game to be more interactive (graphics used, better UI, etc;)? I'm frustrated as a beginner first of all to only be able to play once a day (while waiting for AP to recoup) and why nobody has tried to ride the iOS train? Seems like all you would need is an iOS/Android game propup to boost numbers. No? -- Donjakob 14:32, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

You don't understand anything, do you? Smyg 15:25, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Being a low-tech browser based game is kind of the point. This isn't Ruinscape. And because the game does not have an intensive graphical UI, it runs fine on Android enabled devices through a browser. Dolphin HD and Native Browser are fine. I'm sure other browsers handle it fine too though those are the only 2 I have tried. About half the time I spend playing is from a NOOKColor running Cyanogen mod. ~ _{15:49, 9 March 2011}

*(Runescape) ;p -- Cheese 16:03, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't think you got the joke. -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 03:50, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure someone could make an Android app for UD, there's plenty of users capable enough to at least give it a good try. --Karek^maps?! 02:01, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

that shit would rule! -- ϑ^anceϑ^anceℜ^evolution 03:50, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

whats wrong with using the browser?--

bitch 04:39 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Nothing. I think what Donjakob was getting at is that an app might garner some more attention for the game from the mobile gaming crowd. I can see how it might. I mean look at Angry Birds. That game is nothing new. The format has been around for ages. But people went ape shit over it and its now one of the most downloaded apps ever for mobile devices (over 50 million downloads). Conan O'Brien even has a skit on his show devoted to Angry Birds. Imagine if UD had that type of exposure? I don't think it's likely but I suppose it wouldn't hurt trying. Now I would be interested in seeing some other UD related apps. Maybe one that sent mobile alerts when my alts got too close to one another. Or maybe a mobile version of this app which allows you to get some stats on your character while you are not playing. Yeah, that would be cool. ~ _{05:35, 11 March 2011}

Interesting. if it would shut down. it wouldve happened already...This games old but its bad ass. and i play a bunch of 3D games. sick ass games and this game still holds my attention. see you guys around :3 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crimson head mutated (talk • contribs) 03:20, March 25, 2011.

Who is spamming all the thousands of level 1 characters to adversely affect the search rates? It's cheating. boocat 23:27, 23 May 2011 (BST)

BAD

This might be a little irrelevant, but it concerns me. Is anything being done about this?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/udbebroken.jpg/
SinisterEndeavor 04:25, 24 May 2011 (BST)

There's not much we as users can do. Best i can say is to report it to the zerg list, to Kevan, and maybe keep tabs on what they're doing. ~ Red Hawk One ^{Talk | space for lease} 04:27, 24 May 2011 (BST)

It was reported to Kevan already. Ball's in his court. In the meantime, kill the zergs. —Aichon— 08:55, 24 May 2011 (BST)

It was reported in email as well, and as of this morning, they were nuked. We've been talking about them here. --Akule ^{Maker of fine, hand-crafted UDWiki sass since 2006 -- Akule School's back in session™} 21:01, 24 May 2011 (BST)

Malton Quarantine

Hey again. I just have several questions regarding the Malton quarantine wall and the area nearby.

1. With the river Kevan on Malton's northern border, the quarantine wall encapsulates Malton on all four sides, right?

2. Is the quarantine wall immediately next to the outlying buildings, or is there open ground filled with defenses between them?

3. Much like last year's Escape template exemplified, is the ground underneath the quarantine wall dirt/rocks or does the wall extend into the ground for some length?

4. With the exception of Borehamwood and Monroeville, the outside world is normal (zombie-free) right?

5. What is the physical composition of the quarantine walls? Are there gun turrets every few feet, guards patrolling on top, lava pits with sharks, etc?

Also, I apologize in advance if my actions of archiving all of the other discussions on the General Discussion, Wiki Questions, and Technical Help pages were unauthorized moves. Thanks. --TheBardofOld 21:08, 9 August 2011 (BST)

Hell, are these questions even answerable? --TheBardofOld 18:30, 10 August 2011 (BST)

When I ask myself any question about the quarantine border, I plainly think of the Berlin Wall. It was likewise created on short notice to contain an urban area, so logically a lot of the solutions and conclusions will be very similar. I especially imagine that the Malton Wall evolved equally from improvised roadblocks to wire fences to concrete walls, just much faster. -- Spiderzed█ 18:46, 10 August 2011 (BST)

Only if you're unimaginative. These questions, like many others, are purposely left unanswered by the game creator, Kevan. The answers are limited only by your own imagination or those of the community. There have been a few attempts to create a backstory to Malton by the game community. See UDWiki:Lexicon. There are also many journals in which players have made their own backstory through Roleplaying.

There is some "specific" information on the Border page. In Monroeville, a city similar to Malton, the border walls are described in-game as such:

You have reached the impassable edge of the quarantine zone, with layers of razorwire, low fencing and concrete-slab walls blocking your way.

Again, whether you believe the walls of Malton are full of razor-wire and concrete-slab walls is completely up to your imagination. Personally I believe machine gun turrets is a bit of a stretch, but that's just me. ~ _{18:57, 10 August 2011 (UTC)}

I kind of figured that these questions were left unanswered...I just wanted to see if there was any concrete facts about it so that my roleplaying/imagination didn't over-stretch the truth to something unrealistic. Thanks anyway. --TheBardofOld 19:39, 10 August 2011 (BST)

right so realism, but with zombies.. got it.--User:Sexualharrison16:12, 10 January 2012 (bst)

Kevan and questions.

Do we know if Kevan is still interested in Urban Dead? Halfway through October and no pumpkins yet, although, we didn't get pumpkins, candy, and masks until late October. We didn't get snow until like last December. The only new changes to the game were the implementation of a designated safehouse of your choosing (silly imo) for survivors and a new skill for zombies.

It's been five years since the initial chaos of the outbreak and most buildings are in the same state as they were. I'd think that if our human survivors could rebuild buildings besieged by weeds, rot, and decay, that they'd be able to refurbish buildings damaged by fire, bullet sprays, finish jobs and remove scaffolding, rebuild collapses floors and roofs, etc. Hell, I'm majoring in a branch of engineering and having had some experience with my father on construction jobs and even still, I think that this Malton Home Improvement project could be accomplished through a combined effort of others. Because after all, if a building is ruined and you rebuild it, wouldn't you logically rebuild it so it's not in the same condition as it was before, moreso with fire damage or other structural damage? I do understand that this would hurt the roleplaying aspect of the game, but if we're in Malton until the end of time, it would introduce new beginnings. --TheBardofOld 16:15, 15 October 2011 (BST)

i haven't played long enough to enjoy holiday/seasonal events. do you think if new players make donations for (each of) their characters, Kevan would implement events this year? i used to play Mafia Wars on Facebook & spent quite a bit of money because Zynga implemented new events/cities/other stuff every month. but i won't donate money for a higher IP limit. and i agree w/ you about the construction repairs/rebuilding...i've played The Sims series games for years, and i enjoy building homes/tinkering. it'd be nice to do more than decorate Malton...Malton needs improvements. →Son of Sin← 22:44, 15 October 2011 (BST)

It's not so much donations, but rather a case of if he is still interested in the game. In some cases, after a number of years of the game running, the developer's excitement for a game tends to fade and I worry that Kevan is merely chugging the game along to please community. Also, in regards to building/tinkering, I just thought that it'd attract a wider audience as we all know that the game has lost a drastic amount of players over the years. Then again, it could just be the rundown, gloomy atmosphere that sets this game apart from the others of its kind. --TheBardofOld 22:52, 15 October 2011 (BST)

if donations start coming (back) in for this game, maybe he'll give us something new.the active players (6964 in last day) are probably players with 2 or more active characters (13908).

(random comment) i saw a review of this game here:Cracked.com...and decided to play. it was a bad review but free publicity. maybe we can all promote this game to attract new players. whether a game is old or new...# of players (+ money) grab developers' attention. →Son of Sin← 23:29, 15 October 2011 (BST)

I don't think many people these days are interested in a game of this caliber. Most gamers these days are interested in games with visible gore, violence, and skin. Besides, with the amount of other games Kevan's made, I doubt he's going to be that interested in attracting new players for this game. --TheBardofOld 00:40, 16 October 2011 (BST)

Kevan still actively makes game updates. He changed defile based on feedback from the community pretty recently. I think there may have been other tweaks as well. I notice little things here and there that are mostly what we call "flavor" changes. Most of the changes these days are based on the really good stuff that comes through the suggestions system. Also, he hasn't missed a holiday update yet. I don't have any reason to believe he'll skip them this year. ~ _{00:59, 18 October 2011 (UTC)}

You play UD? Maybe a different UD then.. I haven't noticed any of the good suggestions get implemented in a long time. We need active changes that everyone can easily notice, not minor flavor tweaks only vets might notice. Yeah, it might throw the game out of whack a tad but he should take a serious dig through the passed suggestions and add some big stuff, balancing it later if need be.       14:46, 18 October 2011 (BST)

He's missed April Fools for the past two years. 15:11, 18 October 2011 (BST)

My response was directed more towards the question "Does Kevan still update the game". He does. I'd like to see some of the good game changing updates as well but I'm not holding my breath. Mis, I think he's given up on April Fool's. That one probably required that he give his full attention to the game the entire day. At least with Christmas and Halloween he can set it and forget it for a few days (or a few months in the case of Christmas). ~ _{16:06, 18 October 2011 (UTC)}

But what about the July 5^th updates? July 5^th is Urban Dead's birthday! And there were usually some updates of the 5^th! But not this year! D: --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 22:20, 18 October 2011 (BST)

This is urbandead, not MaltonVille.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 16:42, 18 October 2011 (BST)

I'm not saying that it isn't. I just wanted to know if there would ever be restoration projects since we're locked into this city. Might as well remove the bullets, board up broken windows, trash missing persons fliers, etc. --TheBardofOld 20:19, 19 October 2011 (BST)

I think Yonnua was replying to me. →Son of Sin← 20:31, 21 October 2011 (BST)

MaltonVille would draw some attention though. Point is...most people who play free games only spend money if developers give them something new in return. Nothing new like items/skills or something shiny like medals/awards/trophies for highest kills...just some events, something to show that you (the dev.) are still around. →Son of Sin← 20:31, 21 October 2011 (BST)

My point of contact has been this blog entry by Jeff Rients. He had me right at "Recently one mad scientist type shouted at me "Get out of my safehouse, you rotter!" before one of his buds chopped me up with a fire axe. I got right back up and went back to committing mayhem. Joy." Mind you, people who read OD&D blogs might also be more ready to dig games with horrible, outdated graphics than Cracked.com readers... -- Spiderzed█ 21:35, 18 October 2011 (BST)

LOL that hit the nail on the head! Everything UD lacks (compared to other online/browser-based games) can be overlooked because of 1 simple action: Speak. Evenually, you'll climb inside a building w/ a very funny person who'll make you laugh (and perhaps kill you). This is the first PvP game I can remember playing. I enjoy reading players taunt each other. →Son of Sin← 20:31, 21 October 2011 (BST)

asteroid 2005 YU55

i was reading about this asteroid & want to know what you guys think... →Son of Sin← 09:06, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!! Ahem... ~~ Chief Seagull ~~ ^talk 12:18, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

looks like a case for bruce willis. annoying 01:56, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

There is definitely something to be said for getting off this rock, and spreading ourselves out, ASAP -- boxy 09:35, 8 November 2011 (BST)

how many (>real<) females play?

i was on The Original Cobra page & was wondering if ahh any real females actually play UD? i have no problem with role-playing (men pretending to be women in-game/ in character) but are men pretending to be women / women pretending to men out of character as well? i'm not throwing any shade ...just confused about sex/gender on the wiki now. i surely don't want to call any males "she" just because their character/alts are female. →Son of Sin← 14:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

you are kidding right? why don't you ask you're wife that very stupid question. or was the break down a few weeks ago another cry for attention?--User:Sexualharrison15:24, 8 November 2011 (bst)

There are loads. If you hang around long enough they're even show you risque photos of themselves. Apart from Colette. She never would.--Like Moss and The Dude..... 17:52, 8 November 2011 (UTC) 1 person likes this comment.

OK, I admit it. I'm actually a hermaphrodite. Pretty hawt, huh? ~ Kempy “YaketyYak” | ◆◆◆ | CAPD |

 

18:15, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Ross's comment deserves a thumbs up. Now if only this wiki had a thumbs-up function like Facebook or YouTube... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC) 1 person likes this comment.

Like that? ~ _{19:28, 8 November 2011 (UTC)} 1 person likes this comment.

lol. Time to abuse the likes and dislikes >:D --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:35, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Brilliant V4ps. Love it! ~ Kempy “YaketyYak” | ◆◆◆ | CAPD |

 

19:45, 8 November 2011 (UTC) 2 people dislike this comment.

@Axe Hack Yeah, I kinda didn't think about that until after the fact. Fuck it. Go crazy. ~ _{19:50, 8 November 2011 (UTC)} 1 person likes this comment.

@ mentions as well. I love it. So can we change the name of this wiki to the Urban Dead Facebook or something like that? :P --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:22, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Urban Deadspace, perhaps? Oh and I made the {{@}} template a couple of years ago it just never gets used. ~ _{20:33, 8 November 2011 (UTC)}

I would say make the like and dislike templates into a single template using 2 variables in conjunction with either the switch or if template. Only to make the simple complex :P       23:39, 8 November 2011 (UTC) 1 person dislikes this comment.

Nahbro. But I may need to for the friend request and profile templates. ~ _{00:45, 9 November 2011 (UTC)}

How did we get to talking from girl gamers to trying to turn UDWiki into UDbook? Wait, don't answer that. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 00:59, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

@SexualHarrison...it was a serious question. and if you think i was lying about my wife, that's your opinion. i don't know what's going on around here, on the wiki, so i ask questions. i've seen the name Sally A. Summers & assumed the person behind the name was a female...then i read The Original Cobra's page & was confused. is Kirsty Cotton's operator a male too? →Son of Sin← 01:24, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Spiderzed and Kirty Cotton are both male. If you're looking for actual female players, try hitting up Colette Hart, Miss balalaika, Hashk, Bad Attitude Barbie, and I'm sure there's quite a few others around. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 01:56, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

...like ZIPO, for instance. ~ Kempy “YaketyYak” | ◆◆◆ | CAPD |

 

02:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

i don't want to talk to any real females ...i was just curious ...definitely wasn't trying to offend anyone ...there are like 4 Cobra groups and the beef between them raised this question ...i can't tell the difference between a joke & the truth because i don't know these guys ...guess i should mind my business. →Son of Sin← 02:35, 9 November 2011 (UTC) 2 people like this comment.

Of the ~40 of my IRL friends that have played this game at one point or another, about 5 of them were female. It was a small ratio and they were much less likely to stick around for long periods of time, too. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 12:09, 1 September 2012 (BST)

7 Most Elaborate Dick Moves In Gaming History

i realize now that this wiki is specifically for Urban Dead ...but discussing other things (in forum form) shouldn't hurt ...so to tie this article into this wiki, have there been any UD "dick moves"? →Son of Sin← 19:26, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Hm...Let's see...For my 7 dick moves in Urban Dead...

1. Poopman9 joining Urban Dead.
2. Zerg rushers.
3. Poopman9 joining Urban Dead.
4. The Dead and their 1400+ alts.
5. Cobra's forums being hijacked by RDD only because the retired founder didn't like where it was going.
6. ACC declaring war on zerg hunters for killing a zerg.
7. Poopman9 joining Urban Dead.

That's my 7. Did I mention Poopman9 joining Urban Dead was a dick move? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 20:11, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

The argument between IRC #udwiki and #urbandeadwiki was full of dick moves from both sides. So was when fagzilla who ran nexuswar banned me from his IRC. Most of my dick move giving and receiving seem to have been related to IRC in some way. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 12:12, 1 September 2012 (BST)

wiki awards....

Hey ladies & gentlemen …what do you all think about “…and the 2011 Urban Dead Wiki Award goes to…” or simply “The 2011 Wiki Awards” or “2011 Urban Dead Awards”? The awards I have so far are:

1. best/worst/favorite contributor award
2. best/worst/favorite editor (non-contributor) award
3. favorite/most disliked player or character award
4. favorite/most disliked group award
5. best/favorite/worst post (comment) award
6. best/favorite/worst image award
7. best/favorite/worst signature award
8. best/favorite/worst template (non-signatures) award
9. best/favorite/worst userpage award
10. best/favorite/worst group page award
11. most laid-back/friendly player or character award
12. most uptight/unfriendly player or character award
13. most banned player or character award
14. most wiki-wars (arbitrations) award
15. most suggestions award
16. best/favorite/worst suggestion award
17. most edits in 24 hours award
18. most bots reported (vandal banning)
19. most likely/unlikely to edit the wiki for another year award

...any you don't like? any you'd like to add? trash the whole idea?
...voting would be for 2 weeks ...would like to start voting 00:00 Jan 17^th, end 00:00 Jan 31^th, post winners Feb 1^st→Son of Sin← 17:39, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I think we had something like this. The Grimmies but they were past/present sysop candidates only.       16:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

i think just like in RL life we have way too many award shows.--User:Sexualharrison20:22, 2 January 2012 (bst)

meh. 2011 wasn't much of a year, wiki wise. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 00:34, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Does UD have a universial time code?

I am trying to learn about time in UD.There seems so many reasons why one should know the time about your surroundings. Not least of which would be who you are with , and who came and went in a given time.Iv'e got this feeling most if not all of this has been worked out, any help appreciated.--Randy Ortan 14:54, 10 January 2012 (UTC)Randy Ortan-9:54am EST

I moved your question here rather than having it on it's own article. To answer your question, no the game does not have a measure of time. For role-playing purposes, it is generally accepted that Malton is a city somewhere in in Britain and so GMT would be the time used in Malton if such a thing existed. UTC would also be appropriate. ~ _{15:40, 10 January 2012 (UTC)}

Server reset (when your IP hits reset) is also at approximately 00:00 UTC. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 16:58, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Critique on my latest edit

So, one of my characters has settled down and made a nice home for himself and others in The Wensleydale Arms public house in Crooketon and naturally, I revised the wiki page to better reflect his home. However, I am curious if I went overboard with description and history as some people might be turned away at the long page of text to read.

Thanks. --TheBardofOld 17:25, 2 April 2012 (BST)

It looks fine. You could probably remove the "Current Status" header since its redundant with the Danger Report. Since there are 100,000 blocks available to write stuff about, you have a lot of freedom to do so. As long as its pertinent, which it is. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 18:36, 2 April 2012 (BST)

What I'm curious about is if the length and amount of detail is unneeded. --TheBardofOld 18:44, 2 April 2012 (BST)

Well, no backstory whatsoever is needed, so we don't add backstory for it being needed (or remove some for it being unneeded). The casual block surfer, if people actually do that, probably won't bother to read any of it almost regardless of the length; but for someone who is interested in reading this stuff, I don't think they'll be turned off, since apparently the page is why they're here. It doesn't look like an obnoxious wall-of-text, if that's what you're asking. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 19:05, 2 April 2012 (BST)

Okay, thanks. --TheBardofOld 19:18, 2 April 2012 (BST)

No way man, do as much as you want! The more the better! :D D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 22:56, 2 April 2012 (BST)

I have a feeling the wiki is dead...

Seems to me like the wiki is dead, even though we've had constantly over 11,000 players over the past couple months... ahhhh well *sighs*—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dark Fields (talk • contribs) 22:44, 7 May 2012.

The wiki isn't dead; it's undead. Get it? -- TheBardofOld 00:03, 8 May 2012 (BST)

The wiki shall never die, so long as there are spambots and people to cull them. --Shortround }.{ My Contributions 01:21, 8 May 2012 (BST)

The wiki is dying, as is the game. The wiki is at a faster pace though. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 12:13, 1 September 2012 (BST)

Help a brain rotter!

I really need revived. I have gone to about 5 supposed rotter revive spots and all to no avail. Is there anyone willing to help me? Please give me a NT place to go to so I can get revived. Thanks, -- •הבוס• ♥ ^CGR 20:46, 31 August 2012 (BST)

Embrace the barhah. 22:07, 31 August 2012 (BST)

Pippard NT is very reliably staffed by MCM, but I see you have already turned there. -- Spiderzed█ 22:24, 31 August 2012 (BST)

While I can't speak to its current condition, I know Pippard has been up and down a bit in recent weeks since MOB is in that part of Malton and a few DC/PK groups decided that targeting MCM would be a good idea. —Aichon— 23:06, 31 August 2012 (BST)

The Serrell Building in Yagoton is a good bet, but yeah! Embrace Barhah!--Akbar 23:17, 31 August 2012 (BST)

The 5 places you already went have helped you. They left you dead. Survivors are a horrible group and should only be used for food. -- _{Org XIII} ^Alts 23:51, 31 August 2012 (BST)

Don't go to stanbury village, it's out of action. that's all I can do to help D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 12:03, 1 September 2012 (BST)

I'm en route to Yagoton. If I cant be revived there.....All hope is lost. -- •הבוס• ♥ ^CGR 14:51, 1 September 2012 (BST)

Counter-bot bot

I imagine if a bot-maker got a handful of keywords, he could make a pretty effective bot that automatically trawls new pages and automatically stops spam. Just a thought for another day... A ZOMBIE ANT 12:56, 14 October 2012 (BST)

This is the purpose the whitelist(an uninstalled extension) and Blacklist already meet. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 15:06, 14 October 2012 (BST)

Luckily it's not an issue at the moment. But without intervention by Kevan, in dire times we may need to look at alternative methods if relying on him installing extensions is the key to stopping spambots. A ZOMBIE ANT 01:06, 15 October 2012 (BST)

Actually I'm confusing whitelist with SpamBlacklist which is an extension to key on phrases and urls listed for blocking edits containing them. --Karek^{maps 2.0?!} 01:51, 15 October 2012 (BST)

Project Zomboid

Anyone? --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 23:30, 16 May 2013 (BST)

Who dat? ~ _{02:54, 17 May 2013 (UTC)}

He dat. It's like Urban Dead in a way, if you consider its non-fancy graphics. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 22:12, 17 May 2013 (BST)

Laaaaaaame. --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 22:31, 21 May 2013 (BST)

Definitely piqued my interest, but the whole “time” and “effort” thing is a factor. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 00:11, 22 May 2013 (BST)

More Questions

From a creativity/roleplay standpoint, are the streets, avenues, boulevards, roads, etc in Malton and Monroeville individual streets with tract houses and shops, are they just names of housing communities with large counts of houses, or are they purposely ambiguous? I vaguely recall asking this before, but I simply can't find the questions and answers from before so I figured, **** it, might as well give it another go.

Also, the General Discussion is still under construction, yes? I saw that it hadn't been updated in over six months and I was merely curious about it, seeing as how it's a little tricky to navigate to it currently.

Thanks for the answers, by the way. -- TheBardofOld 06:05, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I would go with purposely ambiguous or up to interpretation. I've always thought of streets as streets with dinky/dingy little ransacked/ruined buildings. (I think I've always thought this, I mean.) And this page is complete (although CP is under permanent construction and the main page doesn't link here). Is "here" hard to find? --  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 01:17, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Interesting. It's just something I find intriguing when sketching out possible ideas for my Northwest Unemplementia bit. Also, what do you think of my revised bit of the interface? It's a lot of the same, but it has a lot more roleplay features in mind in which players can interact with others as well as with the environment and map. Such as exploring abandoned tunnels, riding trains/ski lifts/boats/and even cars to various locations, set up shop, battle hunger and thirst instead of just AP and health, etc. A bit more...dynamic.

As for the General Discussion, it's not too hard to find. I just remember it being listed in the navigational column on the far left of the site is all. Kind of tricky to get to when the only other way is searching "Urban Dead Wiki" and "General Discussion" or clicking the Community Portal on the Main Page. -- TheBardofOld 04:54, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I was wondering this myself. I feel it is subjective and each of us can imagine the details as we wish, from a role play perspective. I suspect this was done purposely to avoid scope creep during technical implementation, and I think Kevan did a great job at finding this balance. I have worked on many projects (and more recently on a few games as a hobby) and know that making a list of "what not to implement" is just as important, if not more, than "what to implement". And that is fine because leaving more to the imagination is never a bad thing for role playing games ;) --Wez 06:00, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what Malton's streets look like, I just know they watchin. ~ _{06:20, 28 January 2014 (UTC)}

I'm going with "intentionally ambiguous" as well. In my head, the streets are where houses & small businesses are, but it really varies by suburb - urban, dense suburbs (Ridleybank, Yagoton, Darvall Heights) have a lot of ugly apartment buildings, while others (Mornington e.g.) might have small parks, big lawns, etc. Bob Moncrief ^EBD•W! 00:32, 29 January 2014 (UTC)