UDWiki:Administration/Deletions/Archive/2008 12

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This is the archive page for UDWiki:Administration/Deletions. This page represents all Deletions archived in the month of December 2008.

Some redirects

I was sorting Double Redirects resulting from some page moves and found these:

They all redirect to the MPD page (which is now a redirect) but I don't see these being used very much personally. I'd put them up for speedy delete but I thought I'd bring them here just to check. -- Cheese 14:53, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

  1. Speedy - They have no right to be claiming these over other groups using police as their RP reason. What next zombie becoming a pure redirect to Extinction? -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 15:04, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Speedy DEM =/= (The) only police group. --Janus talk 15:20, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Speedied--Karekmaps?! 15:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


No content. It's not even a group in my opinion, but I'm not sure if it qualifies for SpeedyDeletion.

--Janus talk 22:48, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

  1. Crit 1/Scheduled - No expandable content/offensive faux group page squatting. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 22:51, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. Crit 1 - No content. Linkthewindow  Talk  02:37, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Speedy Delete - Criterion 1. --ZsL 02:50, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
I moved it to The Dead's space. It was created by them to document the zergs they found. --– Nubis NWO 14:47, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
The redirect has thus been squashed as a movedelete.--Karekmaps?! 15:10, 28 December 2008 (UTC)


My bad. Accidentally created a duplicate page with a faulty address. The correct page is now in place. Extropymine 04:57, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

  • Delete - It's a meaningless page since the corrected version is in place. Extropymine 04:57, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Scheduled deletion -- boxy talkteh rulz 05:13 27 December 2008 (BST)

The Crimson Clan/Awards

Again, no content. Again, posted here so the group has time to respond.

-- Linkthewindow  Talk  13:14, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Quite frankly, if a group/user wants a subpage to sit there doing nothing they can have it. Server space is cheap.--xoxo 16:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Keep - You should first use the Talk page to ask for a response re: a questionable -- but nonetheless content-containing -- page. Not just submit it to Deletions. This is wasting everyone's time, when a quick note could have got a response, or a nice simple crit 7 speedydelete... --WanYao 04:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I did leave a note on the group's talk page here. The only content is a template at the top of the page. Linkthewindow  Talk  05:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
that was a "notice of deletion", not an inquiry about what they wanna do with the page. however, since that template is totally generic, and it's sat there for 6 months or something... speedy it... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WanYao (talkcontribs) at an unknown time.
  • Speedydelete - crit 1. * (cur) (last) 21:14, July 30, 2008 Jsrbrunty (Talk | contribs | block) (New page: {{Template:CrimsonHeader}}) [rollback]. It's only "content", the header template, is duplicated on every Crimson Clan page, and it doesn't link anywhere except deletions pages and the talk page that LTW asked about it on -- boxy talkteh rulz 11:28 18 December 2008 (BST)
  • Keep - but if nothing's been done with it next time I see it, it's going to A/SD -- boxy talkteh rulz 23:06 20 December 2008 (BST)
  • Speedydelete - no content. --WanYao 22:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
  • 'Keep - content has been added. --WanYao 03:00, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Hey, I'm from The Crimson Clan. If its ok, I'd like to keep that page. To be honest, I had forgotten about it completely, but now that I've been reminded, maybe I'll get on and do something with it! Thank you. --Jsrbrunty 22:56, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Since that's effectively a keep, and the group will now use it, this vote is now irrelevant. Linkthewindow  Talk  23:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Kept - early, but the page owner has asked for it to be saved, and all have changed their votes to keep -- boxy talkteh rulz 05:13 27 December 2008 (BST)

Category:Historical Buildings

This has been sitting unused for over 6 months, created over a year ago (judging by the timestamp at the top) and the creator's been inactive since February. As it stands, it's little more than an incomplete list of locations with a few crossed out here and there. It's kinda sitting idle and we can do one of three things:

  • Delete it as it's unused and probably will remain so. Only link in is from a speedy request in October last year.
  • Leave it be to sit about some more waiting on someone adopting it.
  • Or move it from an empty category to a regular page and decide it's fate later. -- Cheese 21:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  1. Delete - Seems to be little more than an abandoned project. I don't see it fitting into anything on the wiki right now. -- Cheese 21:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. Delete - if completed, it would be too close to Category:Historical Events. Linkthewindow  Talk  02:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Meh - one of those 'who cares?' pages. Might as well send it packin'.--xoxo 00:00, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. Delete - Abandoned and not too interesting or helpful. --ZsL 05:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
  5. Keep - It has potential use, if the options are making it useful or deleting it we should always choose to make use of the tools we have at our disposal. Open a discussion.--Karekmaps?! 10:38, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
  6. Delete - Interesting concept. Abandonded page. Let's start from scratch if we wanna run with the concept. --WanYao 15:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
    Doesn't require deleting the page outright, that's just a method to make sure it falls off everyone's radar.--Karekmaps?! 15:37, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
    My problem is ... the very phrase "Historical Buildings" gives the page an official status akin to Historical Events and Groups. Highly misleading. Is there interest in having a category for official Historical Buildings? Well... let's draft a policy for such. But until that happens, i.e. such a policy passes, this really page/category shouldn't exist. --WanYao 01:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
    Change it so it's a listing of buildings where localized historical events have taken place. --Karekmaps?! 05:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
    That could be a drama-fest, though, deciding what is and what isn't... IMO an Historical Building category ought to refer to buildings have had an impact in, and garnered a reputation somehow, with lots of people not just in the local burb. It'd be often associated with historical events, like the Blackmore, for example... But buildings which are the sites of infamous, ongoing struggles, which might not be technically historical in themselves, should be historical, too. The Pask NT in Daker, for example... Stuff like that. That gives a chance to recognise groups and events that might not otherwise get anywhere close to historical status, but which are still noteworthy. But if it's just locals deciding, every second building will become historical... And, writing it all up in the building's history can deal with this... But, it's a thought... --WanYao 14:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
    This page doesn't seem to have much to do with in-game historical events, but rather "backstory" (made up) historical wiki entries -- boxy talkteh rulz 00:16 8 December 2008 (BST)
  7. Move & Speedydelete - move the page to the users subpage area (or even the main namespace if others are interested in taking on the project), and delete the category as crit 4, unused category (it's only entry is itself) -- boxy talkteh rulz 00:16 8 December 2008 (BST)
  8. Delete - Has potential, but nobody gives a shit Actually its just a useless list of buildings. Delete. --ScouterTX 21:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Gone. Lots of deletes, one move.--xoxo 05:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion:20081106 Projectiles

A suggestion that did not appear on Category:Current Suggestions and failed to recieve proper voting. --Midianian|T|DS|C:RCS| 16:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

  1. Delete --Midianian|T|DS|C:RCS| 16:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. Move - Move the content to one of the user's userspace subpages. --Toejam 16:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Comment - It has got two votes, why don't we just cycle it through the system? It's not like it's heading into PR is it? -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 23:22, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. Keep - like Iscariot. Looks close enough to dupe, and perhaps also put a {{notice}} at the top of the page explaining that it didn't go through voting because the category tags weren't added -- boxy talkteh rulz 23:35 19 December 2008 (BST)
    Cycled. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 00:11, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    This is fucking retarded. I could've understood putting it back to voting instead of deleting, but cycling it to undecided when it only has two votes? If this isn't reversed, I fully expect you people to follow this precedent when we find a suggestion with only an author keep. --Midianian|T|DS|C:RCS| 11:13, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    Well, the author of the suggestion agreed to cycle it. --Janus talk 13:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    Frankly, that's entirely irrelevant. The whole point of the suggestions system is to put them through peer review (ie. others voice their opinions on it). You can't just cycle something that got only one vote in addition to the author's. If you don't want it deleted, subject it to two weeks of voting, or create a new category for suggestions that weren't voted on, but don't put it in Undecided when the community didn't have an opportunity to make an actual decision on it. --Midianian|T|DS|C:RCS| 14:22, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
    I find myself agreeing with Mid, but with less swearing. As well as being unfair (to the voters, as well as other suggestors,) it sets a horrid precedent. Lets ether move it to Removed Suggestions or put it through voting. Linkthewindow  Talk  22:56, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
RE After I placed my vote this was reoved from voting by the author. as such is should be a removed suggestion.--RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 14:05, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't say that it was removed as it never really was in voting. It never had the Category:Current Suggestions tag, nor was it linked to from the current suggestions list. The author just put it on Developing Suggestions after you had voted :/. But I guess Removed would still be better than Undecided. --Midianian|T|DS|C:RCS| 14:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Now on A/PT -- boxy talkteh rulz 00:07, 22 December 2008 (UTC) (BST)

Bad habit/enshrinement

It's just a line of text, not edited for a few months. Posted here (instead of A/SD) to give the group time to respond.

-- Linkthewindow  Talk  13:14, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Make it a subpage of Bad Habit then let them do with it as they please.--xoxo 16:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Wrong place, so Move to Bad Habit/Enshrinement and then speedydelete. --Janus talk 16:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Speedydelete after page move -- boxy talkteh rulz 00:52 18 December 2008 (BST)
  • Speedydelete -- because it's a typo page. --WanYao 04:52, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Moved.--Karekmaps?! 10:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


The specified page is not a user page. ~~ThaUser 19:44, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Deleted - a scheduled deletion after being moved to User:BlackstarC -- boxy talkteh rulz 00:52 18 December 2008 (BST)

Liberation Day and Ironfist



Contains nothing but lies and negative propaganda (and it never happened) about my group. The one who created this page has done something like that on various other times and it doesn't belong here.--ScouterTX 14:04, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

  1. Delete. --ScouterTX 14:33, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
  2. Keep Have you tried Arbitration first? A simple conflict resolution over there should be attempted, rather than placing his own pages up for what should, and probably will be, a failed deletion. Page ownership means that they should not really be deleted unless an Arbitration verdict has been reached, or the creator requests it.--Drawde Talk To Me! DORIS Яed Яum Defend Ridleybonk! I know Nothing! 17:33, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
  3. Delete. We can confirm this whole "Liberation Day" crap, never happened, and "Ironfist" is just as bad. Kewabara1 17:31, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
    Keep This is part of our group's new backstory. If you feel otherise we'd be happy to include a section signaling your disagreement with the statements and a link a to a page of your construction. Unsigned struck. -- Cheese 21:03, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
    Sorry that was me, Captain Rickety
    Group backstory belongs in groupspace, because it is rarely NPOV. Linkthewindow  Talk  10:11, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. Merge with FURIG as a group subpage and stick a note on it saying its just crap they made up. -- Cheese 21:03, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
  5. Keep Since my first vote was struck. Cheese's suggestion is fine by me.Captain Rickety
  6. Merge - to subpages of groups involved. I CBAed to read this boring tripe, but I can tell it's group propaganda... Lies are permitted, just not in the main namespace. --WanYao 00:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  7. Merge - Propaganda is fun and all, but it should be in FURIG's group subpage. --Jen 01:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  8. Merge - with FURIG's group page. Or, just make it NPOV (although it is pretty BS, so yeah...) Linkthewindow  Talk  09:59, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  9. Delete - We don't want our name used like this. This isn't even propaganda, it's just slander. If someone was to look at this page they would get the wrong idea about our group as it doesn't even say it's all false. Even if these pages are merged with FURIG, I request that the name SNAKEHOUND be changed to another, I believe this is a fair request, as it's only a backstory, right? -Ryzak Black 19:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
  10. Delete - Claiming that something is a "backstory" when it's supposed to have happened a month ago is rubbish, leading me to believe that nothing on the page actually happened. Bullshit to the bin -- boxy talkteh rulz 02:47 3 December 2008 (BST)
  11. Keep There have been several events in the past that have been chronicled from a non-NPOV (Battle of Blackmore anyone?) and there is no reason to delete these pages. Furthermore, no evidence has been shown that says any of this is false. If you're pissed off, take it to arbitration or talk to the author. You can't have a page deleted just because it's just there to spread negative propaganda against your group. --William Told 04:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
    Ask around and you'll see that nothing like this ever happend. Futhermore, that user has some sort of crush on us, because 90% of his contribs are about us and how "evil" we are.--ScouterTX 21:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  12. Delete No need for the drama...Information on the wiki is supposed to be accurate and not propaganda BS (outside of your own groups POV section on their page. Conndrakamod TAZM CFT 13:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  13. Delete - and recreate it in your group's namespace, if you want it that badly. It's just too biased to exist in the main namespace. --Pestolence(talk) 22:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  14. Delete - Rediculous. Met fan 02:14, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
  15. Delete - Pollution it is.--N00bert foxhound 02:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
  16. Delete - Worse than Harry Potter fanfiction.--James Madley 05:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
  17. Delete - lol, snakehound.--xoxo 05:41, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Final tally: 9 Deletes / 2 Keep / 4 Merge. Both deleted. --– Nubis NWO 14:23, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Free United Republic of Independent Spicer Hills

One line of text and no edits since August.

  1. (Speedy) Delete - Under Crit 1 --Janus talk 18:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. (Speedy) Delete - No content. --ScouterTX 18:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Crit 1 - Yeah, no content. Let's nuke it. Linkthewindow  Talk  21:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. Speedy - As above. --Pestolence(talk) 00:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Speedied - please put these on A/SD if you think they qualify -- boxy talkteh rulz 00:24 13 December 2008 (BST)

Category:Do Not Edit

Completely pointless category due to page ownership policies that do the same thing. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 12:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

  1. Crit 1 - Duplicated by established wiki process. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 12:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. Crit 1 - As Iscarot. Linkthewindow  Talk  13:36, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Crit 1 - See above.--ScouterTX 19:42, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. Crit 1 - as above. --WanYao 23:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  5. Crit 1 - Bandwagoning FTW! --Pestolence(talk) 00:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Speedy --ZsL 01:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


Misspelled title and no content, dead for months, no expansion. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 12:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

  1. Crit 1 -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 12:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  2. Crit 1 But I'll contact the author. Linkthewindow  Talk  12:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
    It's pre-purge, with the only edit coming from Nubis. Therefor, the author can't be contacted. Linkthewindow  Talk  12:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  3. Crit 1 - do you not know where A/SD is, Iscariot? -- boxy talkteh rulz 12:57 11 December 2008 (BST)
    I was on here for the categories that needed community consideration, couldn't be arsed to click the link at the top of the page ;) -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 12:59, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
  4. Speedy --Toejam 13:01, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Speedied -- boxy talkteh rulz 13:09 11 December 2008 (BST)


Scheduled deletion that should be done under new criteria:

"Swearing in page titles - Pages that have swearing in the title that is directed at a user or group (or their actions). Approved 22 July 2008"

Page title clearly swearing and directed against a user. -- To know the face of God is to know madness....Praise knowledge! Mischief! Mayhem! The Rogues Gallery!. <== DDR Approved Editor 12:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC) Speedy -Scheduled deletion. Linkthewindow  Talk  12:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Deleted - and contents moved to Category:Banned Vandals -- boxy talkteh rulz 13:00 11 December 2008 (BST)

The Clegg Family

No real content, an unfinished page by a user who hasn't contributed in two years.--Drawde Talk To Me! DORIS Яed Яum Defend Ridleybonk! I know Nothing! 12:15, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

It's to do with Category:Families of Malton... which, along with the Lexicon project, I don't really understand -- boxy talkteh rulz 13:00 23 November 2008 (BST)
  • Delete, not speedy in case the guy miraculously shows up and wants it. --xoxo 12:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete, but I'll post on Families of Malton talk page telling them about this, and just in case they want it expanded. Linkthewindow  Talk  20:29, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
    Although it doesn't look like that page is active. Linkthewindow  Talk  20:32, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete - no content; abandoned. --WanYao 22:45, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete - As above. Would be speedy crit 1, but the Malton Families thingy might want it expanded. (what is the Malton Families, anyway?) --Pestolence(talk) 02:23, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
    Just a fictional history project, similar to ALiM but less awesome. Excluding a few cases, it seems to have never really taken off.--xoxo 02:36, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete - Some of the Families pages have value. Not this one. -- Atticus Rex mfu pif Δ 06:28, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete -no value in that content-- Vista  T  00:10, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete - Kill with fire. -- Cheese 21:13, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete - No content, use the Death Star.--ScouterTX 02:24, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Deleted.--xoxo 00:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

ZEMA Profile

Dupe of Zombie Emergency Management Agency/Profile except for the template which I'll add to the other one.. =p -- Cheese 16:15, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

  1. Delete - Duplicated content. --Toejam 18:46, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
  2. Delete - What Toejam said. --Pestolence(talk) 19:45, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
  3. Keep - It is created for Advertizement Purposes and Profiles for Users on the Game because the homepage website name is too big. Enough said. --Soldier 21:58, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
    www.tinyurl.com.--Karekmaps?! 02:30, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  4. Delete - Duplicated elsewhere. -- Cheese 22:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
  5. Delete - As above. --Haliman - Talk 23:12, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
  6. Keep and redirectSpeedydelete - crit 1, duplicated elsewhere to no purpose -- boxy talkteh rulz 23:27 22 November 2008 (BST)
    Redirect it then, if he can't work out the tinyurl thang -- boxy talkteh rulz 08:36 23 November 2008 (BST)
  7. (Speedy) Delete and Redirect - dupe Linkthewindow  Talk  01:02, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
    Apparently, they want this page deleted as well (the dupe.) What's going on? Linkthewindow  Talk  07:33, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
    Some craziness over a group page in ns:0. Some of it can be seen on Boxy and Cheese's pages.--Karekmaps?! 08:24, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
    The only one who wants that one deleted is Soldier -- boxy talkteh rulz 08:37 23 November 2008 (BST)
    This microdrama is making me very confused :(. Linkthewindow  Talk  09:02, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  8. Delete - nah.--xoxo 05:44, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  9. Delete - As Toejam.--Drawde Talk To Me! DORIS Яed Яum Defend Ridleybonk! I know Nothing! 12:18, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  10. delete --WanYao 22:46, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
  11. Keep and Redirect - It's not like anyone else is gonna want this pagename. -- Atticus Rex mfu pif Δ 06:28, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
  12. Delete - and Redirect only if really necessary.-- Vista  T  00:12, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
  13. Delete - A redirect isn't really necessary. --ZsL 02:42, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Deleted.--xoxo 00:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Galbraith Hills Police Department

As Below --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 12:27, 7 December 2008 (UTC) Deleted--Karekmaps?! 12:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Huntley Heights Police Department

As below --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 12:27, 7 December 2008 (UTC) Deleted--Karekmaps?! 12:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Chudleyton Police Departments

Information now split onto individual PD's, redirects redirected, but still linked to a few archives. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 11:44, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Disambig - between the two PD's. Linkthewindow  Talk  11:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

  1. Speedydelete - crit 1, information duplicated at the individual location pages. Leave the links to dux's archives. He did waste his time, following the old LSG, but kudos to him for that -- boxy talkteh rulz 12:20 7 December 2008 (BST)

Deleted, there was already a vote held on the fate of these pages, consider them scheduled but not gotten to.--Karekmaps?! 12:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Right. --RosslessnessWant a Location Image? 12:41, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
No, they're not scheduled deletions, despite it being agreed on talkLSG that they should be deleted once fixed up. Put them up on A/SD -- boxy talkteh rulz 12:47 7 December 2008 (BST)
I assumed that was a given, the same is expected no matter what is being deleted. My point was simply we don't need tons of reports for when these are dealt with, there may be a few thousand of them after all.--Karekmaps?! 12:50, 7 December 2008 (UTC)